Seventh-day Adventists

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TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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Yes, most Bible believing Seventh-day Adventists teach that the end time mark of the beast is in fact placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.
In order to fully understand why they (including I teach that) we have to realize that when Satan makes a counterfeit (in this case a counterfeit mark, the mar of the beast) God has a true mark or sign. We have to find out what this is.
"12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them." - Ezekiel 20:12
"17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed." - Exodus 31:17
In these texts, God is saying that He gave us His Sabbath as a sign of His power to create and His power to sanctify (convert and save) us. In the Bible, the words seal, sign, mark, and token are used interchangeably. God’s sign, the Sabbath, represents His holy power to rule as Creator and Savior. Revelation 7:1–3 says it will be written upon the foreheads (minds—Hebrews 10:16) of His people. It will signify that they are owned by Him and have His character. True Sabbath keeping signifies that a person has surrendered his life to Jesus Christ and is willing to follow wherever Jesus leads. Since, God's original mark involves a holy day, it is quite possible that Satan's counterfeit mark involves a holy day.
In Daniel 7:25 when describing the antichrist, God said that he would seek to change times and laws. Satan's counterfeit is the counterfeit Sabbath, Sunday.
For more information you can visit the link: https://www.sabbathtruth.com/faq/advanced-topics/the-sabbath-and-the-mark-of-the-beast
or you can email me at: [email protected]
Does this mean all of us who worship on Sundays will take/get the 'mark'?
 

bibleonly

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Dec 24, 2018
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Merry Christmas! Quite the task you took upon yourself.
What biblical proof do we have that supports that the SDAs are the remnant endtime church of GOD?
Revelation 12:17 says, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. ."
We keep the commandments of God (all of them including the 4th one) and we have the testimony of Jesus.
Revelation 19:10 says, "And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
 

bibleonly

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Dec 24, 2018
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Does this mean all of us who worship on Sundays will take/get the 'mark'?
I do not want to judge people in any way, but in a word yes. If you knowingly disobey the law you sin. Paul says, "sin is the transgression of the law."
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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How is annihilation more or less tolerable? Is one group going to burn longer until they are annihilated?
Matthew 11:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”

Matthew 10:15 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

How does somebody who is annihilated receive a greater condemnation?

Matthew 23:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 [a]Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Hello PennEd, I see you are bringing up the judgment. Here Jesus is telling of an unequal judgment on cities:

Matt. 11:21-24 "Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."

This judgment period is not a courtroom scene. The judgment is a period of time after the second resurrection when those that had never received the HS in this life will have a chance to serve Christ.
 

TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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I do not want to judge people in any way, but in a word yes. If you knowingly disobey the law you sin. Paul says, "sin is the transgression of the law."
If SDAs think everyone worshipping on Sundays is doomed, they should b out in groves evangelizing. I love me some SDAs here but this teaching is ridiculous, esp considering all the great teachers present and past who I'm sure did not all worship on Sat. My dad being Jewish, I respect that, but to think God is sending all those to hell who go to Church on Sunday, well is terrible along w/the mark thing. God knows His sheep, you should not b off on a limb here.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
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I think there is much difference from SDA and JW's and Mormonism.

The issue with SDA is really only one. it is the concern of overly legalistic and works based approach to their doctrine. Col 2:16-23 says :

Let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things that all perish as they are used) according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

Therefore I place the SDA in this category.
also the doctrine of annihilationism which is unbiblical and error
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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I don't know about that......even the Apostles and Disciples argued over theology/interpretations
Did they? I can only think of one place, in Acts during the council of Jerusalem.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Yes i have had that response from others before.. Yeah you can say the devil is not human and in some interpretations the beast is not human ( I believe he is a man ) but the false prophet is definitely a man and he will be in torment in the eternal lake of fire forever and ever.. So the doctrine of annihilation is simply not true..
God’s Memorials

Rev. 14:9-11 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

Some things are preserved in God's memory that is just as good as having them on file or archived digitally. His recall is 100%. Here is a case for something in God's memory:

Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Come on, a maggot that never dies. What is that?

Be aware that Sheol and Hades simply refers to the grave. Our doctrine of a dwelling place of the dead is inserted into Strong's Concordance as a reference. The reference in Revelation where they are tormented day and night forever, their smoke ascending forever could refer to something captured on film, therefore forever preserved. The reference in Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" I believe is another example of that. It just does not make sense of a maggot that never dies. Anyway, hades is finally tossed into the lake of fire. You can't do that with a dwelling place.

All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know. I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names.

When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.

Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.

Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.

What about this verse:

Rev. 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

The “are” in many translations was added for ease of reading but changed the meaning. Below is the NIV version which renders it correctly. Again, this is just another memorial preserved for the future.

Rev. 20:10 “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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Nope. Not dense.

Let me try and articulate again.

If the lost are annihilated, how are some going to receive GREATER condemnation, and how is hell going to be LESS tolerable for some?

Annihilated means they no longer have any existence or consciousness.
The greater condemnation was given to the chosen people God was saying that if Sodom and Gomorrah had the information and the news about salvation their punishment will be considered lesser than what will happen to the chosen people of God who had the good news and the offer of salvation but refused it so their condemnation will be greater...

Also, separation from God is eternal and the verse states the wages of sin is death, annihilation eternal separation from life and God and that is eternal hell....
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I do not want to judge people in any way, but in a word yes. If you knowingly disobey the law you sin. Paul says, "sin is the transgression of the law."
So if you go to church sunday your in sin? If so, You can understand why so many prolr re against SDA doctrine can you not?

Where in the law does it say sabbath is church going? I read it, and I see rest.. I do not see going to a church service.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
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The greater condemnation was given to the chosen people God was saying that if Sodom and Gomorrah had the information and the news about salvation their punishment will be considered lesser than what will happen to the chosen people of God who had the good news and the offer of salvation but refused it so their condemnation will be greater...

Also, separation from God is eternal and the verse states the wages of sin is death, annihilation eternal separation from life and God and that is eternal hell....
you can not be separated if you do not exist anymore. annihilation is you do not exist anymore, therefore, there is no more punishment to you. That is unbiblical
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Did they? I can only think of one place, in Acts during the council of Jerusalem.
And that was not the apostles arguing over Bible interpretation, but rather giving their correct judgment by the Spirit over the MISINTERPRETATION by those who insisted that the Gentiles were subject to the Law of Moses.
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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If SDAs think everyone worshipping on Sundays is doomed, they should b out in groves evangelizing. I love me some SDAs here but this teaching is ridiculous, esp considering all the great teachers present and past who I'm sure did not all worship on Sat. My dad being Jewish, I respect that, but to think God is sending all those to hell who go to Church on Sunday, well is terrible along w/the mark thing. God knows His sheep, you should not b off on a limb here.
It is a ridicilous teaching. And extremely unbiblical.

The reason why the Church started gathering together on sunday is because sabbath was on saturday, and Jesus rose from the dead on SUNDAY.
Therefore they concluded this is A good day to gather together.

You can see this done in the book of Acts where they gather "on the first day of the week" which would be sunday. (The week ends in Sabbath on the hebrew calendar)
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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I would submit to you that it is not false doctrine. In Daniel 8, Daniel has a vision that we usually call the 2300 year prophecy.
Except that there is no 2300 year prophecy. That is 2,300 DAYS (6.4 years) which is just short of the 7 years of the 70th week of Daniel. The sanctuary will be cleansed after the 70th week of Daniel, and after the Second Coming of Christ.

In any event, you have absolutely no biblical evidence for a so-called *Investigative Judgment*, an invention of Ellen G. White.
 
Sep 25, 2018
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It is a ridicilous teaching. And extremely unbiblical.

The reason why the Church started gathering together on sunday is because sabbath was on saturday, and Jesus rose from the dead on SUNDAY.
Therefore they concluded this is A good day to gather together.

You can see this done in the book of Acts where they gather "on the first day of the week" which would be sunday. (The week ends in Sabbath on the hebrew calendar)
There's nothing wrong with gathering together on Sunday. We can worship God any day of the week. But the Bible only has one day that was "blessed" and "sanctified" (Gen. 2:3) by God at Creation, and reestablished in the Ten Commandments (Ex. 20:11), and spoken about in the Heaven to come ("from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come and worship before me, saith the Lord," Is. 66:23).

Sabbath was instituted at the end of the Creation week, and it was never changed. God's law is a reflection of His character, and He never changes. If the Sabbath was changed just because it was more convenient or pleasing to meet on Sunday, then why must we still uphold the other Ten Commandment laws about idolatry, honoring parents, and covetousness? Why can't we just change those to suit the culture and our tastes and traditions?
 

TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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There's nothing wrong with gathering together on Sunday. We can worship God any day of the week. But the Bible only has one day that was "blessed" and "sanctified" (Gen. 2:3) by God at Creation, and reestablished in the Ten Commandments (Ex. 20:11), and spoken about in the Heaven to come ("from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come and worship before me, saith the Lord," Is. 66:23).

Sabbath was instituted at the end of the Creation week, and it was never changed. God's law is a reflection of His character, and He never changes. If the Sabbath was changed just because it was more convenient or pleasing to meet on Sunday, then why must we still uphold the other Ten Commandment laws about idolatry, honoring parents, and covetousness? Why can't we just change those to suit the culture and our tastes and traditions?
Don't you think God knows our hearts on this one?
 

JesusLives

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you can not be separated if you do not exist anymore. annihilation is you do not exist anymore, therefore, there is no more punishment to you. That is unbiblical
Don't you think that death is separation? I know I feel separated from my parents who have been dead for years. Annihilation is death and separation from God for eternity.
 

bygrace

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Dec 3, 2018
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Don't you think that death is separation? I know I feel separated from my parents who have been dead for years. Annihilation is death and separation from God for eternity.
how ou feel is not what God said Hell is. That is why annihilation is more about human reasoning then it is biblical. You know because you are alive if you were annihilated you would not feel at all. You ever wonder why God will wipe the tears out of our eyes? When God said GO to the place that I have prepared for the devil and His angels where in that statement say God meant for men and women to go there? read John 3:17-19
 

TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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how ou feel is not what God said Hell is. That is why annihilation is more about human reasoning then it is biblical. You know because you are alive if you were annihilated you would not feel at all. You ever wonder why God will wipe the tears out of our eyes? When God said GO to the place that I have prepared for the devil and His angels where in that statement say God meant for men and women to go there? read John 3:17-19
Lk 16:22 'The rich man being I torment lifted his eyes...'.
 
Sep 25, 2018
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If SDAs think everyone worshipping on Sundays is doomed, they should b out in groves evangelizing. I love me some SDAs here but this teaching is ridiculous, esp considering all the great teachers present and past who I'm sure did not all worship on Sat. My dad being Jewish, I respect that, but to think God is sending all those to hell who go to Church on Sunday, well is terrible along w/the mark thing. God knows His sheep, you should not b off on a limb here.
SDAs don't believe that worshiping on Sunday automatically sends you to hell. As an SDA, I believe that there have been many great Christian leaders in the past who sincerely worshipped on Sunday, and God accepted them where they were in their journeys. I know I'm not at the end of my journey yet, and I'm sure there are a lot of things I'm lacking that have to be hid in Christ's righteousness for now.

But if we discover or rediscover an important Biblical truth, we can't just ignore it. I believe that the Sabbath was "blessed" and "sanctified" at Creation (Gen. 2:3), and that it is part of God's unchangeable law of the Ten Commandments. If I decided to change God's hallowed day of worship, then why can't I change the details of the other commandments as well? Some laws (such as those about lamb sacrifice) were fulfilled in Jesus, and that is why they aren't binding any more. But the Ten Commandments are written in stone by God's own hand, and we can't change them without consequences.

We all have to examine our hearts. Why do I worship on Sabbath? Why might I worship on Sunday? What are the reasons, and are they based on Scripture? If I don't have a solid reason for my beliefs, and the Bible is pointing in a different direction, then I have to obey what Scripture says regardless of preference or tradition. If I ignored this conviction, it would be wrong. "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." This is where it can become a matter of condemnation. If we are knowingly disobeying God, He cannot cover us with Christ's righteousness because we are no longer submitting to Him in faith.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). If the government told you to lie, murder, and dishonor your parents, then you would have to follow God rather than man. I believe that it is the same with God's Sabbath described in Genesis 2:3, Exodus 20:8-10, Isaiah 58:13 and 66:23, Acts 17:2, and other verses. This is where it becomes a matter of getting a mark or seal, and this is where we need to question ourselves. Who am I worshipping--do my mind and heart belong to God, or am I following the doctrines of man? (Matthew 15:9)

If I say that I love God, then I want to do my best to "press toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:14). But this can only be done through Jesus, not my self-focused efforts. I of all people should know that. It's Jesus all the way, and He'll be the only reason any of us make it to Heaven.