Seventh-day Adventists

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Dec 26, 2018
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What you can't understand is, like I pointed out, we are not justified by anything we do. We apply grace the same as you do. What we do after justification is where we differ. I am not worried about being judged by the law as you point out. What say you do what you think pleases the Lord, and I will do the same? :cool:
I can understand that we are not justified by works, praise god that no man may boast....even if they wrongly believe it pleases god.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Anything added to the finished work of the Christ Jesus, is works.
Phil. 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that He who hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the Day of Jesus Christ.

Who in their right mind even ponders that they are capable of
“Saving” themselves, much less continuing to be “good enough” to keep their selves in sinless perfection.

Anyone who deems themselves capable of adding anything to what Jesus did on the cross is an arrogant fool.
Just for reminder, real faith bear good fruit.

If the branch abide to the tree it will bear fruit. And the fruit of Holy Spirit is love.

Save not by work, but save produce good work.

You save if you let Jesus come and be your King, when Jesus be the King in your life, you wil love other, not murder other

There is correlation between good work and salvation.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

In another verse Jesus said, You can do nothing without Me.”

Any work you or I do that is pleasing to God, can only be accomplished through Him, by the power of His Holy Spirit.

So how much credit can you or I take?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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I hate to bring this up on Christmas, but I don't think Dan should be questioning others.


Mail of the Beast:


Rev 13:16-17
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive the mail in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mail, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 16:2
And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mail of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mail of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

It's too late for Dan.

The rest of you... be warned.

...

I know you tried to clarify this was a joke, later on, on page 5, but you have to know Max, your humor is just to subtle! And the only reason I got the joke, was because by the third time you spelled "mark" as "mail" and the whole post was to MAILman Dan, I realized that was no typo, but you ribbing someone in your own peculiar way!

I hope Dan got it! As for the rest of you, I wish I had had you in my grade 6 class, where I would have drummed into you that SPELLING COUNTS!!

Now, all of you reread what Maxwell said. He never used the word "mark" once. Now, look at context! See who he was addressing the post to!

You are all going to have to write these two words, Mark and Mail 20 times each, after class! And then, the Lord willing, you will get the joke!

Sheesh! Teacher adults is much harder than teaching children, I tell you!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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It says that devil was cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are, it does not say in the verse you supplied that the people who are lost will be tossed into there too. If you are trying to prove a scriptural point at the very least supply a pertinent verse.
1.
Matt 25 say the lost will be punished forever

Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2. I also interested to remind SDA who believe people who worship on Sunday take the mark of the beast.

That is wrong brother.

The Bible say it happen during great tribulation, not now.

The Bible say if you not take the mark of the beast, you can not buy or sale.

You as SDA believe not take the mark of the beast, why you able to buy computer and buy internet time?

You post in this forum, mean you able to buy computer or at least you borrow computer from the mark of the beast taker.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

In another verse Jesus said, You can do nothing without Me.”

Any work you or I do that is pleasing to God, can only be accomplished through Him, by the power of His Holy Spirit.

So how much credit can you or I take?

The credit is belong to the Lord not us, but you have to remember good work or fruit is product of salvation.

In other word if one say he is save but the fruit is hatred and no love, he is lie, he is not save.

God say you judge the tree by it fruit.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
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The credit is belong to the Lord not us, but you have to remember good work or fruit is product of salvation.

In other word if one say he is save but the fruit is hatred and no love, he is lie, he is not save.

God say you judge the tree by it fruit.
All that is good stuff, but do SDAs really think those who worship/rest on Sunday are going to take/get the mark of the beast? I have a fam member and other SDA's at local food bank I love dearly btw, I just didn't know they could believe this.
 
Dec 26, 2018
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The credit is belong to the Lord not us, but you have to remember good work or fruit is product of salvation.

In other word if one say he is save but the fruit is hatred and no love, he is lie, he is not save.

God say you judge the tree by it fruit.
Your doctrine tears famalies apart, it is a corporate church doctrine....imputing sin on another when you do not know the depth of the others mind.....Paul says therefore judge not thy brethren....also
Romans 14
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
 
Dec 26, 2018
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Your doctrine tears famalies apart, it is a corporate church doctrine....imputing sin on another when you do not know the depth of the others mind.....Paul says therefore judge not thy brethren....also
Romans 14
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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All that is good stuff, but do SDAs really think those who worship/rest on Sunday are going to take/get the mark of the beast? I have a fam member and other SDA's at local food bank I love dearly btw, I just didn't know they could believe this.
I read some where in this topic, but I am not remember what page number and what post number
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Your doctrine tears famalies apart, it is a corporate church doctrine....imputing sin on another when you do not know the depth of the others mind.....Paul says therefore judge not thy brethren....also
Romans 14
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
I do not have a doctrine, brother, I am only small man. It is God doctrine it is in the Bible

I quote one of the verse, it is not only one verse that teach it

1 john4:20

If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

In other word, salvation produce love.

We can not produce love of ourself, but if we save we will love our neighbor.

Catholic teach faith and work produce salvation. It is wrong

Bible say salvation by grace not by work, but salvation bear fruit

If branch abide to the tree it will bear fruit

If a branch not bear fruit, will be burn, not save.

John 15

Let me say one more time,

Bible teach There is correlation between salvation and work of love
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Your doctrine tears famalies apart, it is a corporate church doctrine....imputing sin on another when you do not know the depth of the others mind.....Paul says therefore judge not thy brethren....also
Romans 14
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
No one imputes sin in anyone. The Bible is clear we are ALL sinners, saved by grace.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Romans 3:23-24

"As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.” Romans 3:10-12

As far as adding in works for salvation, as the SDAs seem to do:

" For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph. 2:8-10

" If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

So, we may judge that all people are sinners. Because the Bible says all people are sinners. And my suggestion is to read the whole Bible, cover to cover. and see what it really says. The Bible is about Jesus! And about how sin entered the world in Genesis 3, God foreshadowed Jesus coming to earth. And dying as a sacrifice for our sin inthe Old Testament. Because everyone is a sinner. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the OT prophecies.

As for your out-if-context quote if Romans 14.4. Paul is talking about not judging people if they eat meat or whether they eat vegetables; or what days you celebrate the sabbath as s holy day.

"Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind." Romans 14:1-5

Nothing to do with understanding that a sinner sins. And that is everyone, until we are glorified, when Jesus returns.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No one imputes sin in anyone. The Bible is clear we are ALL sinners, saved by grace.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Romans 3:23-24

"As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.” Romans 3:10-12

As far as adding in works for salvation, as the SDAs seem to do:

" For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph. 2:8-10

" If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

So, we may judge that all people are sinners. Because the Bible says all people are sinners. And my suggestion is to read the whole Bible, cover to cover. and see what it really says. The Bible is about Jesus! And about how sin entered the world in Genesis 3, God foreshadowed Jesus coming to earth. And dying as a sacrifice for our sin inthe Old Testament. Because everyone is a sinner. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the OT prophecies.

As for your out-if-context quote if Romans 14.4. Paul is talking about not judging people if they eat meat or whether they eat vegetables; or what days you celebrate the sabbath as s holy day.

"Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind." Romans 14:1-5

Nothing to do with understanding that a sinner sins. And that is everyone, until we are glorified, when Jesus returns.
Seem to me the Bible talking about fruit as a love. Catholic and SDA interprate work as ritual.

Yes salvation by grace and produce fruit as a love

Not by work

In my opinion, catholic and SDA make 2 mistake

1. Salvation by work, must be salvation by grace and produce work

2. Work as product of salvation mean love, nothing to do with ritual.

You may do ritual babtism sacrament, if you do not have love to your neighbor like what Jesus command, you not bear fruit. Ritual baptism not necessary the fruit of Holy Spirit. You can apply for baptism for numbers of reason. My friend willing to be baptiszed because his mom promise to buy him a car if he willing to be baptist
 
Dec 26, 2018
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Romans 14 is not only about meat and vegetables....it is a parable. In those days the “shambles” or butcher was likened to the local bar or saloon....eating meat sacrificed unto idols was no different than commiting adultry or fornication....a sin was a sin under the law.....When eve ate of the apple, was this parable only about eating fruit? No...it was about disobeying god...Romans 14 is the most profound scripture relating to how we treat each other in the dispensation of grace....the first verse says nothing of mere vegetables, he continues to clarify that with the finished work of the cross, judge not your brethren, wether is be one sin or another....why? Because god gave his son and took the sin of the world, nailing it to the cross....so as a brother in Christ, you are not subject to sin which was made manifest by the law....we are no longer under the law....you mistake what sin is to a believer, yes we have all sinned and fall short of the glory, but in Christ we are sanctified, our sins are covered in the blood of Christ, who are you to uncover them? Who are you impute a penalty of sin on your brethren? So I will say it again....this is a doctrine that tears families apart, sin can wrongfully be imputed on a brethren by a weaker brethren, wether it by meat or wether it be suspicion of adultry alike....and why is he the weaker brethren? Because he has not the faith,(and does not fully understand what it means to take the sin from the world, he is still in bondage) and anything not of faith is a sin....so you can falsely impute or charge your brethren as a sinner in Christ...I see it over and over in corporate church doctrine. When you judge your brother, he feels that you have imputed sin upon him....and who are you to judge?

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,913
804
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Romans 14 is not only about meat and vegetables....it is a parable. In those days the “shambles” or butcher was likened to the local bar or saloon....eating meat sacrificed unto idols was no different than commiting adultry or fornication....a sin was a sin under the law.....When eve ate of the apple, was this parable only about eating fruit? No...it was about disobeying god...Romans 14 is the most profound scripture relating to how we treat each other in the dispensation of grace....the first verse says nothing of mere vegetables, he continues to clarify that with the finished work of the cross, judge not your brethren, wether is be one sin or another....why? Because god gave his son and took the sin of the world, nailing it to the cross....so as a brother in Christ, you are not subject to sin which was made manifest by the law....we are no longer under the law....you mistake what sin is to a believer, yes we have all sinned and fall short of the glory, but in Christ we are sanctified, our sins are covered in the blood of Christ, who are you to uncover them? Who are you impute a penalty of sin on your brethren? So I will say it again....this is a doctrine that tears families apart, sin can wrongfully be imputed on a brethren by a weaker brethren, wether it by meat or wether it be suspicion of adultry alike....and why is he the weaker brethren? Because he has not the faith,(and does not fully understand what it means to take the sin from the world, he is still in bondage) and anything not of faith is a sin....so you can falsely impute or charge your brethren as a sinner in Christ...I see it over and over in corporate church doctrine. When you judge your brother, he feels that you have imputed sin upon him....and who are you to judge?

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Abou not to judge I want to ask question

What is the definition of judge?

If I say salvation is only by believe in zjesus, mean non believer not save. Am I judge non believer? Or I quote and interprate the Bible?
 
Dec 26, 2018
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Abou not to judge I want to ask question

What is the definition of judge?

If I say salvation is only by believe in zjesus, mean non believer not save. Am I judge non believer? Or I quote and interprate the Bible?
When you see sin, you have to tell yourself “that is what Christ died for”, every mans flesh is corrupt, always will be until we receive a new body....every person on earth has been forgiven for the sin they have committed, or ever will commit....When Christ died on the cross, did he not die for the sin of the world? If you judge a non believer, what are you judging him for? Sin? Why judge him for sinning when you do it yourself? Are you not condemning yourself? Christ died for all sin, for every man, though many will not believe this, therefore they will die in unbelief, and not be partakers in the kingdom of heaven.....so that brings the question of judgement....why judge them for sin? That is not our job in the dispinsation of grace.....our job is to deliver the message of the finished work of the cross....we have no reason to judge anyone....if your are interpreting your bible by reading Matthew, Luke, Mark etc....your are reading the wrong books....you are not of the lost sheep of Israel....you are a gentile, the book of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, James.....are not for you. The appostle Paul was sent to the gentiles to preach the mystery that was know before the foundations of the earth were formed...Matthew 10 Christ tells the apostles to not go the way of the gentiles....that was reserved for the appostle Paul, as he was visited by an angel on the road to Damascus....Paul is your appostle.....all of the Bible is meant for you, but it is not all for you....mixing the messages of Christ’s earthly ministry, in which he was under the law, is a much different message of Paul preaching the dispinsation of grace.....2 completely different programs
 
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Condemned by Galatians I might add........

Oh Foolish Galatians WHO has bewitched you, having begun in the spirit (faith) are you now made complete by works.....NOTE --->WHO has bewitched you........!!!!!!!!!!!
Satan strikes again!