Sexual Sins for Everyone?

[oopsies]

I've always grown up being taught that sexual sins are (duh) wrong. But I've never thought about who needs to follow these laws from God. Well, that didn't come out right... we should all follow it but some choose not to. The question is, did God set an example that we should follow where only His people should follow it. That didn't come out right either...

You know what, I can't really seem to put it into words. Maybe it's because it's too early in the morning lol

Maybe an example will help. In the Old Testament, I seem to recall that the Israelites were the ones being directly punished by God for sexual sins. God did not "directly" punish other nations. He may have sent Israel to "punish" them in part because of sexual sins but also for other sins as well.

In the New Testament, Christians are repeatedly commanded not to sin sexually. But I don't seem to recall this command being applied to non-believers? Someone clarify for me? I have never done additional reading on sexual sins. All I've done is simply accept it.

 

[aspen]

I've always grown up being taught that sexual sins are (duh) wrong. But I've never thought about who needs to follow these laws from God. Well, that didn't come out right... we should all follow it but some choose not to. The question is, did God set an example that we should follow where only His people should follow it. That didn't come out right either...

You know what, I can't really seem to put it into words. Maybe it's because it's too early in the morning lol

Maybe an example will help. In the Old Testament, I seem to recall that the Israelites were the ones being directly punished by God for sexual sins. God did not "directly" punish other nations. He may have sent Israel to "punish" them in part because of sexual sins but also for other sins as well.

In the New Testament, Christians are repeatedly commanded not to sin sexually. But I don't seem to recall this command being applied to non-believers? Someone clarify for me? I have never done additional reading on sexual sins. All I've done is simply accept it.

God does not like the misuse of sex no matter who is engaging in it. However, nonChristians do not need to worry about it because they need Jesus in their lives before addressing behavioral issues. And even Solomon told people to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die - if they are going to be separated from God for eternity - they may as well live it up today.

 

[oopsies]

However, nonChristians do not need to worry about it because they need Jesus in their lives before addressing behavioral issues.

That's the part that I'm trying to find biblical basis. As you can probably guess, having the right verses to destroy a misconception is helpful if someone remarks, "Well, you Christians are always trying to stop us from enjoying sex!" (Though not said to me, I have heard that one before and I wouldn't know how to answer it without some verses!)

 

[aspen]

That's the part that I'm trying to find biblical basis. As you can probably guess, having the right verses to destroy a misconception is helpful if someone remarks, "Well, you Christians are always trying to stop us from enjoying sex!" (Though not said to me, I have heard that one before and I wouldn't know how to answer it without some verses!)

It is a sad perception that nonChristians have of us. The fact is, we are never called to judge people outside the church - God gives them freedom to live their lives according to their desire - shouldn't we?

I am sorry I do not have a verse for you.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Maybe an example will help. In the Old Testament, I seem to recall that the Israelites were the ones being directly punished by God for sexual sins. God did not "directly" punish other nations. He may have sent Israel to "punish" them in part because of sexual sins but also for other sins as well.

Heb 12:5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.Heb 12:7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?Heb 12:8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

 

[oopsies]

Heb 12:5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.Heb 12:7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?Heb 12:8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

But that doesn't say whether chatisement is just for us. It is referring to us but doesn't say it is just for us or for all people.

 

[aspen]

I've always grown up being taught that sexual sins are (duh) wrong. But I've never thought about who needs to follow these laws from God. Well, that didn't come out right... we should all follow it but some choose not to. The question is, did God set an example that we should follow where only His people should follow it. That didn't come out right either...

You know what, I can't really seem to put it into words. Maybe it's because it's too early in the morning lol

Maybe an example will help. In the Old Testament, I seem to recall that the Israelites were the ones being directly punished by God for sexual sins. God did not "directly" punish other nations. He may have sent Israel to "punish" them in part because of sexual sins but also for other sins as well.

In the New Testament, Christians are repeatedly commanded not to sin sexually. But I don't seem to recall this command being applied to non-believers? Someone clarify for me? I have never done additional reading on sexual sins. All I've done is simply accept it.

I am sure you wouldn't consider putting other Christian requirements on people like Bible study or celebrating Easter - why is it different for sex?

 

[Mal316]

Non Christians who don't accept the Bible as authoritative are not likely to be swayed by verses from a book they don't claim to follow. Common sense should tell them that rape and incest and bestiality are wrong. Not because God says so but because of the harmful effects these have on people as individuals and on families and on society as a whole. Not to mention that they're also illegal.

 

[VW]

I've always grown up being taught that sexual sins are (duh) wrong. But I've never thought about who needs to follow these laws from God. Well, that didn't come out right... we should all follow it but some choose not to. The question is, did God set an example that we should follow where only His people should follow it. That didn't come out right either...

You know what, I can't really seem to put it into words. Maybe it's because it's too early in the morning lol

Maybe an example will help. In the Old Testament, I seem to recall that the Israelites were the ones being directly punished by God for sexual sins. God did not "directly" punish other nations. He may have sent Israel to "punish" them in part because of sexual sins but also for other sins as well.

In the New Testament, Christians are repeatedly commanded not to sin sexually. But I don't seem to recall this command being applied to non-believers? Someone clarify for me? I have never done additional reading on sexual sins. All I've done is simply accept it.

Sexual sins are like other sins, except in one regard, in that if a man joins with a harlot, he has joined in more than just sex. Their bodies have become one. Really scary thought.

As those who are alive in Christ, sin is convicted in us by the Spirit, and we confess, agree with the Spirit, and Jesus is faithful to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Those who are not believers, they are captive to their sins, the Law will do them no good, because it will not save them, and God does not give commandments to non believers. They are not His children. Only those who are born of the Spirit are the children of God.

If we look at the white throne judgment, and when the books of the deeds are brought out and read, notice that no one is judged by their deeds, for all of those deeds are bad. Of all the people who are judged, the only real judgment that is seen there is whether one has his name written in the book of life, which is Jesus. Otherwise, they are all thrown into the lake of fire. Not for their sins, but because they did not receive the love of the truth, they did not receive the life that is Jesus Christ.

Paul wrote that it is better not to marry, because marriage will detract from a complete walk in Christ. He did not say that marriage was wrong, only that it is better not to marry. But, on the other hand, if a person needs to have that relationship with a spouse, then it is better that they marry than commit sin after sin by trying to remain celibate.

Blessed is the person who is not condemned in what he allows. Cursed is the one who is condemned, for nothing is pure to him. If I have the Spirit of Christ, then I know what I am blessed in allowing.

 

[Thaddaeus]

But that doesn't say whether chatisement is just for us. It is referring to us but doesn't say it is just for us or for all people.

what????
you wanted to know why he judged the Israelites and not other nations this is your answer, He only chastises those that are His people the Ones that have choosen good over evil if you are not a Child of God then Abba, The Father won't correct those that are not His

 

[QuestionTime]

I've always grown up being taught that sexual sins are (duh) wrong. But I've never thought about who needs to follow these laws from God. Well, that didn't come out right... we should all follow it but some choose not to. The question is, did God set an example that we should follow where only His people should follow it. That didn't come out right either...

You know what, I can't really seem to put it into words. Maybe it's because it's too early in the morning lol

Maybe an example will help. In the Old Testament, I seem to recall that the Israelites were the ones being directly punished by God for sexual sins. God did not "directly" punish other nations. He may have sent Israel to "punish" them in part because of sexual sins but also for other sins as well.

In the New Testament, Christians are repeatedly commanded not to sin sexually. But I don't seem to recall this command being applied to non-believers? Someone clarify for me? I have never done additional reading on sexual sins. All I've done is simply accept it.

1) The Bible says that fornicators and adulterers will not enter the Kingdom of God.
2) John says that anyone who sins is a liar and has not known God.
3) Paul makes it clear that real Christians will not obey the desires of the flesh.

Therefore, God's commands are to everyone, but Christians will be made perfect in love and will not obey the lusts of the flesh. If Christians do obey the lust of the flesh, read 1 John 2:4-5.

The Word of God draws a clear line in the sand, because God will judge the world by the Bible.

As far as your Israel example, every single nation that I remember God having sent to punish Israel God later used another nation to punish.

Quest

 

[oopsies]

I don't think people are getting the question. When someone who's a non-Christian comes up for the purpose of attacking your faith and they say that we are (today) trying to keep them from doing what they want to do (e.g., sexual sins as defined by God), it's probably a better idea to show them that our Bible tells us not to do that. To show them that, you give them verses. They may not believe in our Bible as authoritative but they can see then that technically, we shouldn't be holding them on that standard/scale since they chose not to hold to that higher law. So in that way, it destroys their misconception and their argument on other items. I think it's clearer now... So what I'm wondering is, are there any verses that tell us not to impose God's laws on others.

 

[VW]

I don't think people are getting the question. When someone who's a non-Christian comes up for the purpose of attacking your faith and they say that we are (today) trying to keep them from doing what they want to do (e.g., sexual sins as defined by God), it's probably a better idea to show them that our Bible tells us not to do that. To show them that, you give them verses. They may not believe in our Bible as authoritative but they can see then that technically, we shouldn't be holding them on that standard/scale since they chose not to hold to that higher law. So in that way, it destroys their misconception and their argument on other items. I think it's clearer now... So what I'm wondering is, are there any verses that tell us not to impose God's laws on others.

I don't know why, but it is a common misconception that every person living is a child of God. This is just not so. Those who have the heavenly seed, the new birth from God are the children of God. While an unsaved person may apply the principles of the scriptures to their life and gain in this world, it does not one thing for their salvation. They must be born again. Until then, they are under the principle of sin and death, and the only escape is in Jesus, being born again in Him.

Having said this, it is imperative that the Spirit convict any unsaved of the inescapable fact that they need to be saved. We cannot convince anyone of this ourselves, only the Spirit can. (Jesus chose us, not we Him.) I believe that to have unsaved people try to live to the standard of those who are saved is counterproductive. I believe that we need to pray for them, lift them up to God in heaven, asking for their souls of God. And then let Him work for that in them by His power. If He chooses to use us in this task, great, what a joy to behold. But it is up to Him to convict.

 

[oopsies]

I don't know why, but it is a common misconception that every person living is a child of God. This is just not so. Those who have the heavenly seed, the new birth from God are the children of God. While an unsaved person may apply the principles of the scriptures to their life and gain in this world, it does not one thing for their salvation. They must be born again. Until then, they are under the principle of sin and death, and the only escape is in Jesus, being born again in Him.

Having said this, it is imperative that the Spirit convict any unsaved of the inescapable fact that they need to be saved. We cannot convince anyone of this ourselves, only the Spirit can. (Jesus chose us, not we Him.) I believe that to have unsaved people try to live to the standard of those who are saved is counterproductive. I believe that we need to pray for them, lift them up to God in heaven, asking for their souls of God. And then let Him work for that in them by His power. If He chooses to use us in this task, great, what a joy to behold. But it is up to Him to convict.

Well, to be fair, I think it is a bit more complicated than that. People fight for freedom of religious expression because of some legal implications that may or may not affect one's right to express their beliefs for themselves. If there weren't any legal implications on our religious freedoms, I don't think Dr. Dobson and others would be so outspoken against groups such as the Freedom from Religious Rights group. It is probably over our heads to fully understand the issues unless we are a part of the "fight."

 

[Thaddaeus]

I don't think people are getting the question. When someone who's a non-Christian comes up for the purpose of attacking your faith and they say that we are (today) trying to keep them from doing what they want to do (e.g., sexual sins as defined by God), it's probably a better idea to show them that our Bible tells us not to do that. To show them that, you give them verses. They may not believe in our Bible as authoritative but they can see then that technically, we shouldn't be holding them on that standard/scale since they chose not to hold to that higher law. So in that way, it destroys their misconception and their argument on other items. I think it's clearer now... So what I'm wondering is, are there any verses that tell us not to impose God's laws on others.

so are you saying that we shouldn't tell a sinner that they have sinned, thus they need a Savior?

 

[VW]

Well, to be fair, I think it is a bit more complicated than that. People fight for freedom of religious expression because of some legal implications that may or may not affect one's right to express their beliefs for themselves. If there weren't any legal implications on our religious freedoms, I don't think Dr. Dobson and others would be so outspoken against groups such as the Freedom from Religious Rights group. It is probably over our heads to fully understand the issues unless we are a part of the "fight."

There is no call in Christ to become part of that fight.

 

[oopsies]

There is no call in Christ to become part of that fight.

What if by losing, you also lose your religious freedoms or are limited in that freedom? There is already a bill being pushed through in the US that, if successful, will prevent all religious organizations (including churches, etc.) from hiring based on religious beliefs.

 

[VW]

What if by losing, you also lose your religious freedoms or are limited in that freedom? There is already a bill being pushed through in the US that, if successful, will prevent all religious organizations (including churches, etc.) from hiring based on religious beliefs.

Why are they hiring people? If they are hiring people, then they are a business. In fact, many religious organizations are businesses. I don't remember reading anywhere where Paul or James or John or Peter started any businesses.

I am not a citizen of this world, nor of this worldly system. I am a citizen of heaven. I obey the rules of the government where I live, but that is to maintain peace such as I am able. That is the extent of my responsibility to it. And that is in the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[oopsies]

Why are they hiring people? If they are hiring people, then they are a business. In fact, many religious organizations are businesses. I don't remember reading anywhere where Paul or James or John or Peter started any businesses.

I am not a citizen of this world, nor of this worldly system. I am a citizen of heaven. I obey the rules of the government where I live, but that is to maintain peace such as I am able. That is the extent of my responsibility to it. And that is in the power of the Holy Spirit.

That isn't a fair statement to make just because you do not subscribe (I assume) to the church. There are ministering people that a church would hire - a pastor, a youth pastor, office assistant, Christian counselors for divorce, marriage, and so forth depending on the size of the church and how many people they are ministering to. All these people need to put food on the table but if they are busy ministering to everyone else, they have no time for a full-time job. Ask Keith if his family can survive without at least a humble wage. This is why God set aside portions of food for the Levites and temple priests. They ministered to the people, they did their temple duties full-time and by doing so, they don't have time to go out and farm, raise sheep, etc. This is why tithing is also a commonly raised issue. God provides but He also set an example for the rest of us to provide for one another as well.

Edit: I just realized that you are not specifically mentioning the church but that is an example. If I understand US law correctly (and I am in Canada, BTW), if this bill passes into law, a church could be required to (for example and I am not picking on any group of people specifically) hire an atheist homosexual to minister to married couples. It is an extreme example that I doubt would happen but it is an example. Other organizations that help the poor and needy are not necessarily businesses. Some are not out to make profit and that is why they are permitted to be classified under "non-profit" for tax exemptions. You cannot really call these "businesses." Theoretically, the money that they get is to be placed into a trust fund where it is withdrawn to solely help with their mission (helping the poor, or whatever). Take the food bank for example. There are operating costs. Just because you are non-profit, it doesn't mean your landlord won't charge you rent.

 

[superdave5221]

It is a sad perception that nonChristians have of us. The fact is, we are never called to judge people outside the church - God gives them freedom to live their lives according to their desire - shouldn't we?

I am sorry I do not have a verse for you.

Here's the verse:

1 Cor 5: 9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."