Shabbat (Intent-- not Timing)

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FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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#81
It makes even more sense when we translate Abraham's name, Father of peoples (or nations).
Well said. I love how God's words perfectly connect from what He told Abraham and Moses to what we know how the Death of Jesus gave access to "All People and Nations" to become heirs of God.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
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#82
why then do you say this:




?


Christ is not a gilded box. but that ark testifies of Him - its entire purpose is to reveal things about Him to us.
Let me give you an example....

The alter of incense in the Holy Place represents our prayers Revelation 8:4 which is part of our salvation in Christ through our relationship, but that does not mean Jesus is an alter. Jesus is not an alter, He is not an ark, He is not the Sabbath- He is the Creator of all things, not the creation.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#83
is the one commandment that reveals our Creator and His Authority over all heaven and earth that will never change.
you don't think "have no other gods" demonstrates the infinite authority of God over all that is?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#84
Let me give you an example....

The alter of incense in the Holy Place represents our prayers Revelation 8:4 which is part of our salvation in Christ through our relationship, but that does not mean Jesus is an alter. Jesus is not an alter, He is not an ark, He is not the Sabbath- He is the Creator of all things, not the creation.
i didn't say Jesus is a gilded box or a repeated temporal period of ritual inaction.

i said those things are symbols representing Him - He is The Substance, they are shadows.

He is the true ark, the true temple, the true shepherd, the true potter, the true light, the true rest.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
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#85
i didn't say Jesus is a gilded box or a repeated temporal period of ritual inaction.

i said those things are symbols representing Him - He is The Substance, they are shadows.

He is the true ark, the true temple, the true shepherd, the true potter, the true light, the true rest.
The ark is not a shadow, it sits under His mercy seat in His heavenly Temple Rev 11:19 and contains what man will be judged by James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15

Prayers are not shadows either. :)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
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#87
why then do you say this:




?


Christ is not a gilded box. but that ark testifies of Him - its entire purpose is to reveal things about Him to us.
“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

and over it the cherubim's of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“which are the figures of the true”

the candlestick,

“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same. And six branches shall come out of the sides of it; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side:

…And thou shalt make the seven lamps thereof: and they shall light the lamps thereof, that they may give light over against it. And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭25:1, 31-32, 34, 37, 40‬ ‭

“And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. ( preists garments )

His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; and his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:12-15, KJV‬‬

“And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭4:2, 5‬ ‭

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭

Christ is entered into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:”
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,711
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#88
The ark is not a shadow, it sits under His mercy seat in His heavenly Temple Rev 11:19 and contains what man will be judged by James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15

Prayers are not shadows either. :)
do you understand that it is a picture of Him?
that the things inside it are also pictures of Him?
that where it was placed was a picture of Him?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#90
do you understand that it is a picture of Him?
that the things inside it are also pictures of Him?
that where it was placed was a picture of Him?
Better not tell him Jesus is a door or lamb either. Wait, lion and lamb...no way. If you mention a reed or flax my head will explode.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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#91
It is a sin for someone to commit murder regardless of whether or not they want to follow the law against committing murder, they should understand what it means to commit murder regardless of whether or not they want to follow that law, and the same goes for God's other laws.


It would be unjust to enforce a penalty that Jesus has already paid. Still, the fact that God considers breaking the Sabbath to be worthy of the death penalty and the fact that Jesus gave himself to pay that penalty should make us want to go and sin no more.


Yes.


In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to Gentiles in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5)

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will given all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by obeying His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom that was made known in advance to him, and because his children did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In John 8:39, Jesus connected the works that they should be doing with the works that Abraham did, and the works that they should be doing were in obedience to the Mosaic Law. Moreover, there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being God's way, so both Abraham and Moses walked in God's way in obedience to His law and taught others to do that.


Not offering children to Molech isn't mentioned at all in the NT, but that doesn't mean that we are free to do that. The vast majority of people that Jesus interacted with were Jews who were keeping the Sabbath holy, so it is not like we should expect him to go around telling everyone that they need to be keeping it, so it brought up an number of times. In Colossians 2:16-23, the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands, they were being judged by pagans who were promoting human precepts and teachings, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them for keeping God's holy days. So it is ironic when people try to use that verse to justify their refusal to keep God's holy days.


What reason do you have for thinking that the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is something other than or contrary to what the Father commanded to Moses?


Do not mistake God's patience for permission.


The way to have a relationship with Jesus is not by rejecting God's instructions for how to do that. The command to keep the Sabbath holy is not the command to have a relationship with God one day week.
You put God's grace under law. You need to read what Paul said to the Galatians about that.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
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#92
do you understand that it is a picture of Him?
that the things inside it are also pictures of Him?
that where it was placed was a picture of Him?
You’re not really addressing the scripture. The earthy temple was more than just a picture of Jesus it is the plan of salvation and each piece of furniture represents the blueprint back to Christ.

God’s law is a reflection of His character and the image we are to take on, but it does not change the fact we will be judged by His law James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15 and why the Ten Commandments sits in the ark under His mercy seat where justice and mercy will come together.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#93
The 7th day Sabbath rest is a shadow of God's 7th millennium Sabbath rest for a remnant of Israel and mankind by faith in Christ, when Jesus will rule from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.
The Jerusalem is clearly stated as Heavenly Jerusalem not an Earthly city.
His City is as a bride adorned.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The earthly things have passed away at this time.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#94
You’re not really addressing the scripture. The earthy temple was more than just a picture of Jesus it is the plan of salvation and each piece of furniture represents the blueprint back to Christ.

God’s law is a reflection of His character and the image we are to take on, but it does not change the fact we will be judged by His law James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15 and why the Ten Commandments sits in the ark under His mercy seat where justice and mercy will come together.
Jesus is 'the plan of salvation'
Jesus is Salvation

i am not sure you are addressing the very purpose of scripture itself.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#95
God’s law is a reflection of His character and the image we are to take on, but it does not change the fact we will be judged by His law James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15 and why the Ten Commandments sits in the ark under His mercy seat where justice and mercy will come together.
the reason that the foundation of the Law of the marriage covenant with adulterous Israel is NOT the ten commandments, but two of the 'mere ordinances' you say are of no consequence, being written by Moses, is because the ark is made of wood encased inside and out with gold, then sprinkled with blood.

the purpose of this is to reveal the divine Christ, who became flesh for our sake.
the law was given to lead us to Him, not the other way around, friend. He did not give Himself to put us under the threat of eternal curse, but to set us eternally free.

this is the meaning of sabbath rest
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
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#96
the reason that the foundation of the Law of the marriage covenant with adulterous Israel is NOT the ten commandments, but two of the 'mere ordinances' you say are of no consequence, being written by Moses, is because the ark is made of wood encased inside and out with gold, then sprinkled with blood.

the purpose of this is to reveal the divine Christ, who became flesh for our sake.
the law was given to lead us to Him, not the other way around, friend. He did not give Himself to put us under the threat of eternal curse, but to set us eternally free.

this is the meaning of sabbath rest
According to scripture, which is what I choose to be my guide Psa 119:105 the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 and you can find that in Exodus 20:8-11
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
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#97
Jesus is 'the plan of salvation'
Jesus is Salvation

i am not sure you are addressing the very purpose of scripture itself.
So no need for prayers, living God’s Word, letting our light shine, sharing our faith and repentance so we can be covered in His righteousness or baptism. We are saved because of the existence of Jesus. I believe the scriptures indicate otherwise.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#98
Of course shadows were before the law.
Please show me? Show me that shadow laws were before sin?

Remember what the shadow laws are...

Col 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The laws of gravity and light are important today and they were made in the first 7 day's with all other creation. At this point Transgression has not happened so please show me what shadow laws were added at this point. knowing they would be nailed to the cross....
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#99
Please show me? Show me that shadow laws were before sin?

Remember what the shadow laws are...

Col 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The laws of gravity and light are important today and they were made in the first 7 day's with all other creation. At this point Transgression has not happened so please show me what shadow laws were added at this point. knowing they would be nailed to the cross....
I'm not talking about shadow laws. I'm talking about the symbolism of creation and in the lives and circumstances and things God records in the Bible. Simply because God doesn't tell us until after sin what He has done in creation doesn't mean the symbolism wasn't there.
An example, God spoke and brought things into existence. Today God uses His word to create believers...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. This was always true and pictured for us in creation, but only fully revealed in the NT. But it was established in creation.
If we were given revelation, we would understand that everything God created is a revelation of Him. And that's what is revealed in Romans 1-20...the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made...
 

Soyeong

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Oct 11, 2023
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You put God's grace under law. You need to read what Paul said to the Galatians about that.
Grace is a gift and gifts can't be earned, so grace is incompatible with works insofar as those works as done to earn a wage (Romans 11:6), however, works can be done for any number of other reasons that are compatible with grace, which is why there are many verses that connect God's grace with God's law. For example, in Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and and Jesus. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as a wage as the result of our obedience to the Mosaic Law, doing good works in obedience to it is nevertheless a central part of the gift of our salvation. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is the content of His gift of salvation.

What Paul said about grace and law in Galatians should be understood in a way that is in agreement with these verses rather than a way that is contrary to them. For example, it would be absurd to interpret those verses as God being gracious to people by teaching the how to fall from grace.