Shining Light on 1 Corinthians Chapter 15

[Truth7t7]

I don't see a post here saying that baptism is necessary for salvation. I posted that the Lord offers us baptism and it is wonderful. Could that be read as "baptism is necessary for salvation"?

The QUOTE below clearly states If baptism is refused, no Kingdom will be seen, directly related to baptism

Corban Quote, Post #2

"IF YOU REFUSE BAPTISM, YOU ARE REFUSING THE COVENANT OF PROMISE! You become INELIGIBLE for the KINGDOM when Christ sets it up on earth after His return."

 

[posthuman]

information

{eternal life} = {to know Him}, John 17:3

how much information is 'knowledge of God' quantitatively?

 

[posthuman]

The devil is filled with fury, because he knows his time is short. Demons know their end will be one of torment.

Satan's got an accurate watch & calendar. do we?

 

[Magenta]

Satan's got an accurate watch & calendar. do we?

We know we will never die. My understanding is also that no man knows the day or hour

 

[Truth7t7]

We know we will never die. My understanding is also that no man knows the day or hour

I agree no man knows the day or hour of the (Future) second coming of Jesus Christ.

(Full Preterist) falsely claim it took place in 70AD, can you believe that, heretical in my opinion.

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Wansvic]

The QUOTE below clearly states If baptism is refused, no Kingdom will be seen, directly related to baptism

Corban Quote, Post #2

"IF YOU REFUSE BAPTISM, YOU ARE REFUSING THE COVENANT OF PROMISE! You become INELIGIBLE for the KINGDOM when Christ sets it up on earth after His return."

To reject the need for water baptism is to reject the very counsel of God according to scripture:
Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Polycarp, was john's disciple, he was baptized as an infant. He also wrote about the importance of baptism.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

2,000 years of church history cannot just be erased because all of a sudden we want to reject water baptism.

 

[Truth7t7]

To reject the need for water baptism is to reject the very counsel of God according to scripture:
Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Belief and Confession, the only things needed for salvation.

Roman's 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Magenta]

To reject the need for water baptism is to reject the very counsel of God according to scripture:
Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Jesus baptized no one with earthly water.

On the other hand? He said, "Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’ ”

 

[Truth7t7]

2,000 years of church history cannot just be erased because all of a sudden we want to reject water baptism.

Nobody said to reject water BAPTISM, the argument is BAPTISM isnt a part of salvation.

Belief and Confession, that's all ya need for salvation!

Roman's 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Scribe]

Directed to Israelites;

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The same promise being extended to all nations, which they may not have fully comprehended for a minute but soon did, would continue to stress this command ( even to the gentiles who would hear the same message and I think any gentiles who were in the crowd that day), to be baptized in water as an act of faith identifying with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

We need to get back to stressing it in our evangelism and get people baptized in water as an act of faith as soon as they make a decision to follow Christ. We would be biblical and standing on a sure foundation of scripture if we included it in every altar call.

You would think that we did not need another thread on baptism but I see a trend among some to reinterpret scriptures on baptism as not applying to us today or as if in an effort to explain how we are not saved by water baptism they go so far in another direction as to attempt to "understand" baptism in new ways never taught before in the history of the church. So for that reason we probably do need to continue to teach the scriptures on water baptism. Because few seem to comprehend it. The fear of violating a philosophy of Augustine, Calvin, or Luther and their interpretations have caused some to reject the plain teaching of scripture on calling the repentant to be baptized in water and believe on Jesus Christ. They are not adding to faith in Christ when preaching what the apostles preached about baptism. But because they are afraid of being accused of such a thing they are attempting to change the meaning on the command to baptize.

 

[Truth7t7]

Polycarp, was john's disciple, he was baptized as an infant. He also wrote about the importance of baptism.

Nobody is arguing against BAPTISM being important, it's not a issue regarding salvation.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

The modern Church wants to do everything except for the two things that Jesus said to do. Going to all of the world make disciples and baptize them.
I haven't heard of a western church in my lifetime making disciples, and now they don't even want to baptize.
Charles Finney and his revivalists have really done a number on the modern western church.

 

[Corban]

Your claim is false, as the scripture below clearly states

(Believe On The Lord Jesus Christ, And Thou Shalt Be Saved)

Baptism is an outward confession to the world, and has absolutely nothing to do with salvation.

Example: The Thief On The Cross, Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise

You teaching in error is straight out of Oneness Pentecostalism, JW's, etc

You still haven't responded to my direct question, do you believe in the present literal place of torment for the wicked (Hell)?

P.S. There will be no Millennial Kingdom upon this earth as you claim.

Acts 16:27-31KJV
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Dear brother, since the beginning, you will not address my arguments. You post yours, and in the past I have answered. But since you turn to slander, I'm sure you won't be surprised when I don't answer. You know brother, JWs drive cars. So do Christians. According to your logic then, all Christians who drive cars are JWs. JWs believe a number of things that are correct, and they believe a lot of things that are incorrect. You do not possess full knowledge either. Does that make you a JW?

This Forum is for debating truths of the Bible. If you won't debate, please excuse those of us who do want to discuss if we don't take the time to answer your slanderous way of arguing.

Now, in the posting above, you answered my posting in which I said that one could forfeit the KINGDOM. You answered "we are SAVED". If English is not your mother tongue, I feel for you. But in English the word "KINGDOM" is a totally different word to "SAVED". If you want to debate, address what your opponent says. If you go off on another totally different theme, only a few will answer you. In English, the grammar counts. If you will not address the grammar, only a few will enter into futile debate. I won't. Here is my basis:

Romans 16:17; "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." If you think I am causing offense contrary to the doctrine, you are bound to avoid me - not contend. Likewise, If I think you are just looking for contention, I will avoid you.

2 Timothy 2:23; "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes." The same argument is valid for this. If you think my postings generate foolishness or show unlearnedness, you are commanded to avoid me.

Titus 3:9; "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Same argument for here too.

I suggest, in the friendliest way, that you avoid me. On the other hand, I uphold your right to post what, and to who you like. But don't be surprised when I avoid you.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

First and foremost, context is crucial when evaluating any scripture. The context of the chapter in question pertains specifically to aspects of the resurrection.

Many mistakenly conclude that the first two verses of 1 Corinthians chapter 15 confirm that an individual need only believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus in order to be saved. The gospel message certainly begins with that information; however, it does not stop there.

Paul begins his letter by reminding the group that he declared to them the gospel by which they were saved. (verses 1-2) He goes on to point out a specific part of the gospel message that he and they received FIRST; that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and resurrected. (verses 3-4) He then delves into concepts associated with resurrection throughout the rest of the chapter.

Apostle Paul’s comment about Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection being what is shared with people FIRST indicates there is other information included in the gospel message. This truth is seen in scripture relevant to all groups of humanity: (Jews, Gentiles and Samaritans) Acts 2:22-41; 8:12-17; 10:37-48. In each of these scripture references we see individuals hearing the word of God and complying with the command to be water baptized in Jesus’ name and receiving the Holy Ghost as well.

Notice in 1 Corinthians 15 verse 29 Paul specifically brings up water baptism. He questions why people are getting baptized for the dead if they don't believe the dead will be resurrected. Even though baptism for the dead is not biblical it speaks to the fact that born again believers realized their own water baptism played a part in their spiritual rebirth. And as such, they were doing it in hopes of changing the fate of relatives and/or friends who had not submitted to it for themselves before meeting their demise.

Clearly one’s repentance and water baptism would hold no significance without Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection. Jesus’ sacrifice is what makes the NT spiritual rebirth possible at all. Even though Jesus died for the sins of all humanity, not all will have their personal sins washed away. It is through one's belief and obedience to God's plan of salvation as expressed in the word that all are given the opportunity to be become born again children of God.

Brother you are on track hold the course.

 

[posthuman]

I agree no man knows the day or hour of the (Future) second coming of Jesus Christ.

(Full Preterist) falsely claim it took place in 70AD, can you believe that, heretical in my opinion.

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:36 is wedding language.
this is the traditional answer of the groom to any question about what day the wedding will occur in the Hebrew betrothal ceremony.
the Father sets the day, and even tho the Son knows when He will come to snatch away the Bride, He does not reveal it. She waits with her maidens, and His appearing is looked for as they keep watch.

 

[throughfaith]

Considering your comment, I guess you didn't read the entire post. Sometimes it seems useless to expect people to at least consider the entire context of scripture. Pulling scripture out of the context skews the truth of what the author is presenting to the reader.

is it fair to say that your trying to fit Some of the book of Acts into the Gospel explanation of 1cor 1.15 ?

 

[Magenta]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The same promise being extended to all nations, which they may not have fully comprehended for a minute but soon did, would continue to stress this command ( even to the gentiles who would hear the same message and I think any gentiles who were in the crowd that day), to be baptized in water as an act of faith identifying with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

We need to get back to stressing it in our evangelism and get people baptized in water as an act of faith as soon as they make a decision to follow Christ. We would be biblical and standing on a sure foundation of scripture if we included it in every altar call.

You would think that we did not need another thread on baptism but I see a trend among some to reinterpret scriptures on baptism as not applying to us today or as if in an effort to explain how we are not saved by water baptism they go so far in another direction as to attempt to "understand" baptism in new ways never taught before in the history of the church. So for that reason we probably do need to continue to teach the scriptures on water baptism. Because few seem to comprehend it. The fear of violating a philosophy of Augustine, Calvin, or Luther and their interpretations have caused some to reject the plain teaching of scripture on calling the repentant to be baptized in water and believe on Jesus Christ. They are not adding to faith in Christ when preaching what the apostles preached about baptism. But because they are afraid of being accused of such a thing they are attempting to change the meaning on the command to baptize.

Few seem to comprehend the Spiritual relevance of the water of which Jesus spoke.

And yet Jesus made a clear distinction between His water, and earthly water used for ceremonial cleansing.

Is earthly water efficacious in producing spiritual purity? I say no. What say you?

The first recorded miracle in John's gospel has Jesus changing
ceremonial cleansing water to wine, which represents His blood.

 

[throughfaith]

As I stated the same message was presented to Jews (Israelites), Gentiles, and Samaritans. This truth makes it clear that all of humanity is expected to obey the same message. That message included receiving the Holy Ghost as well; which I mentioned.

My main point was that Paul brought up a portion of, not the entire gospel message in the first few verses of 1 Corinthians 15 that were associated with resurrection. People grab a hold of that and run with it as evidence to support their position concerning what is required for a person to be reborn spiritually.

My point would be that today it is 1 cor 15 1-4 that is the message we are saved by . What happens is people read the book of Acts and miss the point that its transitioning. Its a transitional book not to be ignored of course, but to understand how God is bringing about through the Acts of the apostles these transitions from the OT to NT ,to Israel , to Gentiles then the ' body ' . The Gospel is then established . The gospel of grace as we read in Paul's epistles namely.