Should Christians be guided by prophecies?

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LaurenTM

Guest
#81
God directing people and having others follow up with prophecies seems to apply in a lot of cases. But 'confirmation plus 1' or plus 2 or whatever seems common, where someone gives you a prophecy confirming what the Lord has shown you, but there is a bit more detail or some angle you hadn't considered before the prophecy. Generally, it is confirmation, but there is something else there, too. Or you have a fuzzy idea of what God wants you to do, but the prophecy brings a bit of clarity and a better understanding of the purpose or how it fits in to other things. So it is not completely confirmation in these cases.

It is nice if it is confirmation, but what if God wants to do things a little differently. There are plenty of examples of prophecies in the Bible that did not seem to be confirmation to the individual who received it.

Isn't this overlooking that fact that real, genuine prophecies come from the Holy Spirit? I Corinthians 12 teaches we are different parts of the body with different gifts and we need each other? There are also quite a number of directive personal prophecies in the Old Testament, and Paul wanted Timothy to actively work to fulfill some personal directive prophecies over him.

I Timothy 1:18
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

hey there presidente

prophecy or dreams or visions will never ever be what I base my life on

and I don't embrace gifts...but I do embrace the One who gives them

I have more reasons for what I say than most on here would want to believe and let us leave it at that

my conscience is clear

I know you mean well, but trust me (gee don't you hate it when someone says that) I am the last person on planet earth who needs an education of this sort of thing

and God knows why

thank you

and no, I won't be handing out explanations:)
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#82
"What do you folks think about that? Is it OK for Christians to let themselves be guided by such prophecies?"

No.
I agree with you,,,,,It actually sounded like a Magician's trick
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#83
hey there presidente

prophecy or dreams or visions will never ever be what I base my life on

and I don't embrace gifts...but I do embrace the One who gives them

I have more reasons for what I say than most on here would want to believe and let us leave it at that

my conscience is clear

I know you mean well, but trust me (gee don't you hate it when someone says that) I am the last person on planet earth who needs an education of this sort of thing

and God knows why

thank you

and no, I won't be handing out explanations:)
well said, regardless if anyone thinks your right or wrong you stand by what you believe with total faith in God and that alone shows a lot about you I am impressed:) You have certainly earned my respect
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#84
hey there presidente

prophecy or dreams or visions will never ever be what I base my life on

and I don't embrace gifts...but I do embrace the One who gives them

I have more reasons for what I say than most on here would want to believe and let us leave it at that

my conscience is clear

I know you mean well, but trust me (gee don't you hate it when someone says that) I am the last person on planet earth who needs an education of this sort of thing

and God knows why

thank you

and no, I won't be handing out explanations:)
When one begins to know how our brains work, it is a wonder we make sense of
anything. I am now probably more confused about the value of words from God,
because it is easy to become, if God speaks directly to us, why do we need scripture.

What struck me, God can only speak in small messages, directly, which limit their value.
We tend to think of God as being able to do everything, no restraints, rather than we
live in a world governed by restraints everywhere.

I love the bronze snake that Moses lifted up, yet even this became an idol that had
to be destroyed. We are a tough people to lead.

This is why I love the concept of purity, and finding clarity within.
Prophecy is brilliant at the right time, and for me is such an encouragement that can
bring tears to my eyes.

So please do accept I love you sister, and I wish you well.
God bless.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#85
Yes, that is exactly the point. If all you rely upon is turning to a page, and being convinced that the interpretation you have been taught of a certain verse is the guiding truth, then you stand a good chance of ending up like the Westboro Mob who swear to the death that their narrow, restricted interpretation of the Bible (The same Bible all of us read) is solidly true..... with all the prejudice and hatred they absolutely KNOW they see right there on those pages.

My frequent disdain, as you call it, is not for the word of God, but rather for the VERY limited view many people are mired in.
Or you might wind up a wishy washey neo evangelical who believes everything and believes nothing at all. Tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. Having no spine and standing for nothing but self and the feel good religion of Babylon.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#86
well said, regardless if anyone thinks your right or wrong you stand by what you believe with total faith in God and that alone shows a lot about you I am impressed:) You have certainly earned my respect
well

don't know what to say here

but thanks Blain....
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#87
When one begins to know how our brains work, it is a wonder we make sense of
anything. I am now probably more confused about the value of words from God,
because it is easy to become, if God speaks directly to us, why do we need scripture.

What struck me, God can only speak in small messages, directly, which limit their value.
We tend to think of God as being able to do everything, no restraints, rather than we
live in a world governed by restraints everywhere.

I love the bronze snake that Moses lifted up, yet even this became an idol that had
to be destroyed. We are a tough people to lead.

This is why I love the concept of purity, and finding clarity within.
Prophecy is brilliant at the right time, and for me is such an encouragement that can
bring tears to my eyes.

So please do accept I love you sister, and I wish you well.
God bless.

huh

another don't know what to say

the struggle is real

thank you Peter

we can both dish it out ... maybe we have something in common inside...and I can't believe I said that, so I must be growing in the Lord or something....
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
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#88
Prophecy was given to the church, however it is good to keep in mind that in the NT folks did not come to church meetings with a bible in their hands. Today we have the completed plan of God to read for ourselves so prophecy is probably not so important as it was in their time(just my opinion). Today we can all know as much as the teacher if we want to do the study while in the time of the NT the people were very dependent on particular individuals who had the truth of God...today we all have the truth of God if we just pick it up and read. I am not against prophecy, years ago a young fellow gave me a prophecy that was true. I do believe that we have to be careful in this area because of the human weakness. I am reminded of a TV show where folks went to visit this fortune teller, just about all of them came out declaring how accurate the person was. They were all surprised to find the fortune teller was only a paid actor and the answers were made up before the show. My point, the human mind tends to hear what it wants to hear.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
1,755
113
#89
I know you mean well, but trust me (gee don't you hate it when someone says that) I am the last person on planet earth who needs an education of this sort of thing

and God knows why
We all need to learn and grow in our faith and knowledge of God.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,778
13,412
113
#91
It is important. Many today do not know how to properly apply God's word to their situations. That is where prophecy comes in today. Guidance in using that which already exists.
I'm trying to understand your position... if as you said in a previous post, there are no new prophecies, and what we have today are actually words of wisdom or knowledge, on what do you base this? How do you interpret Paul's encouragement to desire to prophesy? Was Agabus' warning to Paul a word of wisdom or of prophecy? Were Phillip's daughters prophets (because they prophesied), even though their words were not recorded in Scripture?

"Guidance in using that which already exists" is not something I see either OT or NT prophets doing, specifically and exclusively, with that being called "prophecy" in the Scripture. "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned!" is hardly guidance regarding existing things. Same with "You shall serve them seventy years" and "In this way the Jews will bind the man who owns this belt." Your thoughts?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#92
The following story is to give hope to others that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is within those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. As stated in my signature:

"When you receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior, you will also receive The Holy Spirit who will teach you but you have to be willing to learn from Him. He will guide you in daily activities but you have to listen to Him. He will keep, protect and maintain your soul in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but you have to let Him."

*************

Some time ago my father lying on his death bed was having a hard time passing from this world to the next. While he believed in Jesus and the Holy Word of God, his chosen work had taken him from the church doors for many years. Having said that, through this dream, I believe that my father will be waiting for me when I arrive at heaven gates.

It was then something prompted me to speak to him, the words that had been given me almost two years before. I after all this time, concerned about the timing, bent over and whispered in his ear the words that were given me, for I had not then nor have I now forgotten those words to this day. Within about a couple of minutes, my father breathed his last air of this world and continued a new part of his journey to the hereafter known as Heaven through God's Word.

I in my married younger, fathering children years, worked in the medical field. Looking back on those 25 years, my faith and outlook on life was there formed and sealed. In those days, there was no compartmentalization of the departments within a hospital, especially the small town hospital. One learned to pickup where help was needed and go do it. Simple as that.

The physicians back then in these small towns practiced a family type of medicine, still performing house calls when someone was sick that could not come to the Dr's. office or hospital ER. In fact, I can never remember a time during those years where anyone was turned away from care because of money, insurance, looks, etc.

While there were some doctors that chose to have a private (single) practice, There were other physicians that grouped together into a larger practice. This one group consisted of three doctors that lasted for over forty years. They served this county faithfully and then one day, One of the group up and passed on. Not too many months later, another physician of the same group came into bad health and had to leave the practice. For a year or two the remaining physician keep open the medical center taking on all the patients of the other physicians. However, time and death caught up with him and he too passed on.

My father had been recruited by this group to work and run the hospital during those early days. He became quite close to all the physicians at the hospital but had a special connection with the doctors in the group above.

I worked at that hospital through my younger years pulling weeds out of the flower beds and eventually when I became licensed (in my chosen field of study), continued to work there for several more years. As any older person will tell you, in the olden days, if someone needed help; you pitched in. Thus I worked in several areas throughout the hospitial wherever it was needed. Because of this, I saw the ugly face of death in many many various ways. From people who did not get the chance to call out Jesus' name to those that were old and were on a path of shortened days to their own demise. I remember those that were scare, so I suspect they are in heaven at this time. There were others that were defiant all the way up to the end. These I feel sorry for because there was no words that could sway them from their chosen destiny. Then there were those that were smiling all the way up to the last breath. They knew what awaited them and loved Jesus Christ and in some cases they were anxious to get there.

The following dream came to me roughly one month after the administrative doctor (who, we will call Dr. Robert) of the above group died. This dream having happened around 15 years ago is still in my brain and I still remember..EVERYTHING!..

It was one of those early morning rituals (4 am), where I checked in with the night shift nursing staff, gathered the days work and pickup a couple of cups of coffee. (the coffee was central to all areas). Before I had reached the door of my designated work area, there in the hallway, floating in the air above the floor, the three doctors of the medial group spoken of earlier appeared. The (deceased) administrative physician (Dr. Robert) was on the left, with the other (deceased) physician was in the middle, while the third physician 'although still alive at the time of this dream',was on the far right with his face was in a cloud or veil . This veil, separated him from the other two and I quietly assumed at time: it separated 'the living from the dead.'

Dr. Robert was the only one spoke to me with the middle (deceased) physician smiling almost like a Chesire cat. I could not see what the third doctor's facial expressions were because of the veil. Dr. Robert told me to tell my Father that :"everything is wonderful over here and not to worry"....Those were the only words spoken as I was either too dumbfound to ask a question or could not ask a question by design. Immediatel, after Dr. Robert spoke these words, he gave me a gold watch from his arm without any explanation. Having taken the golden watch from him, they as a group disappeared as suddenly as they appeared.

I awoke in a sweat, remembering everything, trembling and not understanding just what had happened. After a while, I lay back down and tried to go back to sleep almost afraid of what I might find but was never able to reach it. The first thing I did when it was an appropriate time, I called my father's house to inquire about him. Was he still alive???? and then I told my wife about the dream. NO...I do not keep anything from her. We are in God's eyes one-person.

Yes, my Father was still alive to my surprise. He had retire about about 6 months after Dr. Robert had died and was living the life of leisure at his home mowing the lawn, feeding the birds and keeping his livestock in the fences.

It had almost been two years after Dr. Robert had passed away and my father's health was getting worse. All this time, everyday, I asked myself " when should I tell him this message? Would he believe me? Would he laugh? What about the golden watch? My father nor I had ever received a golden watch from any of the doctor's or the hospital? It was a puzzle I could not solve. During these times, there were several times I had made up my mind to tell him the message regardless of the outcome but something inside me keep misdirecting me away from this course of action. However, other than the dream, no one spiritually spoke to me at any time.

During the time I was 5-10 years old I had accepted Jesus and sang for the church on Sundays at my grandparents. I still remember most of the words to "the Old Rugged Cross". I would at this time go there for a couple of weeks every summer break from school. Because they were in a separate city, I was never (water) baptized. Although we went to Church as a family in those early years, I left the Church (Baptist) at the age of 15 never to return to this day.. This was caused by what I saw as a 'scamming older people' out of their land and other property by HIGH members of the church. (I look back on it from time to time and have not changed my mind to this day.) This I deemed as Hypocrisy and did not want to be part of it. Shortly after that my parents also saw it and they too left the church never to return. I will not say that I lost faith, I did not. At times throughout those years and years hence, I simply talk(ed) to Jesus when I needed to figure out something and ask for his help. Yes, looking back during my wild teenage years, I had an angel 'riding in my pocket', as there were several times where deadly harm was but a blink away. Somehow, I survived to become the father of two lovely children and married to a wonderful woman. That decision, I have never regretted even across forty-eight years. I am pretty sure, she still feels the same way,,,I hope....ha ha.

Shortly after the two year period of Dr. Robert's passing, I found myself faced with death once again only this time it was very personal, my Father.I found myself remembering the times I had asked the big question: "when to tell my father what Dr. Robert had told me all those years ago" and now he was dying and I might not get the chance to tell him. Thus, I would fail the task assigned to me.

Sometimes death sneaks up on us and takes us without much time to to say good-bye if any at all. At other times, death takes its time and slowly in degrees degrades the mind and body of the person to the point that they themselves know nothing of what is going on. This was the scene at my father's house. He had slowly shifted into a semi-comatose condition over a period of a few hours. Every one knew it was the end but did not know the exact time the end would come. So we waited. Finally at one point, my father's wife( in a loud tone) begging Jesus to take her husband and not let him suffer. Something within me said NOW! A voice---no---an urging or pushing---YES. I listened to a higher power within me that day. Seldom in my life up to that point had I realized that I was doing something because someone or something (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit,intuition, ESP, etc.) was pushing me to do. I asked his wife (a good and very loved woman to this day) if I might speak to him and she agreed. No, I did not want them to leave the room as I was not embarrassed with what I had to say. I leaned down and told my Dad that I loved him and had a message from Dr. Robert. I then told him the message and bid him goodbye. Almost before I had raised up from his bed, his breathing changed and slowed down to nothing in short order. He was Gone!

That day, changed my psyche from within and in places I could not understand. HOW DID I KNOW WHEN TO TELL HIM was what I cried and eventually the answer came to me. GOD!!!! The other question that nuawed at me from day one yet it had not been resolved. WHY DID HE GIVE ME THAT GOLDEN WATCH? Nothing within my being or otherwise could tell me the answer to that question.

During the funeral, a childhood friend, Dr. Robert's son with his wife and chief nurse (he had taken over the Medical Practice at his father's clinic) came up to me expressing their condolences. I, for some unknown reason ask them if they had a few minutes in which I might speak with them in private. I told this story to them and they listened in quietness. After I got through, I could see there were doubts of my sanity from the nurse and the son's wife. It was then that the son spoke up and stated that Dr. Robert had given to his son at sometime before his death, Yes, a Golden Watch. I will assume that it was my job to tell the son of Dr. Robert, my friend, my story and the golden watch was a way to verify that his father had actually spoken to me all those years ago and was now in heaven awaiting him. For whatever reason, after I told them the story, a calm, a peace, a quietness come over me that lasts to this day. I had completed a task I will assume was from God himself without ever hearing a word spoken.

To this day, I still remember the dream as it is 'now' being written by me online at this website. The truth will always remain the truth. For what everybody must think about me and my story, I do not know. I do know that everybody is called to do something. One of my grandfathers was a Baptist Preacher and he told us many times that God had told him what he would be doing. I have no doubt of that at all. As for me, I study and seek the truths of the Bible from the standpoint of getting the word out there that it is the whole unadulterated "Word of God". All of it, not just part of it. Thus my signature, which I credit to the Holy Spirit that is within me. I recommend that you read it and listen at all times with your whole body not just your ears.

May God bless each and every one of you today and forever. Amen
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#93
seems once Ricky gets a thought he may imagine it is a word of knowledge

not
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#94
Some also say "You only need to do something once - and that's enough". Here's Jesus after spitting on the guy's eyes - having to lay hands on him twice to get the full manifestation of his healing.

Mark 8:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP][/FONT][/SIZE] And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.

[SUP]23 [/SUP] And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
I always wonder if the first sight is how the spiritual world looks...men walking as trees.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#95
seems once Ricky gets a thought he may imagine it is a word of knowledge

not
Now I am confused. Thought you and Ricky agreed with each other.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#97
I am a bit surprised at this position of yours. It doesn't seem consistent with my impression of your belief system. :)

Can you support what you say from scripture? I can't see where New Testament prophets were bound by Old Testament prophecies. And I can't see where the Bible limits the content of prophecies going forward after the end of the New Testament.

You apparently do allow for words of knowledge that are 'new information.' You would allow for the idea of someone interceding in tongues about any situation, including a job or co-workers at Walmart, right? What about interpretation of tongues? Do you think they can be something other than scripture?

Anyway, I can't think of any scripture in the Bible that supports your assertion. But looking at I Corinthians 14, I see that the hypothetical unbeliever or unlearned person who goes to church and all prophesy, hears the secrets of his heart made manifest. Does that sound like the sort of thing you'd put in the 'word of knowledge' category?

My understanding of genuine prophecy, if it is of the spoken variety, is that it occurs when individuals are moved to speak by the Holy Ghost. It is revelatory, as Paul writes, 'if a revelation cometh to one sitting by.
I'm trying to understand your position... if as you said in a previous post, there are no new prophecies, and what we have today are actually words of wisdom or knowledge, on what do you base this? How do you interpret Paul's encouragement to desire to prophesy? Was Agabus' warning to Paul a word of wisdom or of prophecy? Were Phillip's daughters prophets (because they prophesied), even though their words were not recorded in Scripture?

"Guidance in using that which already exists" is not something I see either OT or NT prophets doing, specifically and exclusively, with that being called "prophecy" in the Scripture. "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned!" is hardly guidance regarding existing things. Same with "You shall serve them seventy years" and "In this way the Jews will bind the man who owns this belt." Your thoughts?
My understanding is that prophecy are God's words being spoken by a man. There are numerous scriptures in the Bible against adding to God's word (Proverbs 30:6 being one of them). Since the Bible/canon/scriptures are now complete, is it wrong to assume then that by this definition of prophecy there can be no new prophecy since that would be adding to God's word? So in that sense, to be true prophesy, it has to be something God has already spoken and committed to in writing. And if the words cannot be new, the only purpose then would be to apply the existing word to new situations.

Does that make sense?

Words of wisdom and knowledge, however, are not under the same constriction. Their purposes are for guidance and direction as opposed to speaking for God. But, as I've pointed out several times Lauren, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established" (2 Cor 13:1). So no, every fleeting thought does not qualify. But a fleeting thought that comes back around from another source and does not conflict with scripture - that's a good sign.

Again, maybe it's just semantics. In the details, prophecy is different from wisdom and knowledge, but hey we didn't get to President Trump by paying attention to the details, did we. Most will lump the three into one pile. And in this day and age 'close' is close enough. Technically, no it's not, but perhaps that's just straining at gnats.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,091
1,755
113
#98
My understanding is that prophecy are God's words being spoken by a man. There are numerous scriptures in the Bible against adding to God's word (Proverbs 30:6 being one of them). Since the Bible/canon/scriptures are now complete, is it wrong to assume then that by this definition of prophecy there can be no new prophecy since that would be adding to God's word? So in that sense, to be true prophesy, it has to be something God has already spoken and committed to in writing. And if the words cannot be new, the only purpose then would be to apply the existing word to new situations.
It seems you are getting your theology more from church statements about the Bible rather than the Bible itself. Adding to God's word in the Old Testament is not about adding to the canon. Much was added to the canon after that was written. It is one thing to say the Bible is the word of God. It is another to exactly equate 'Bible' and 'word of God.' The Bible does not use 'word of God' to refer specifically and exclusively to 'the canon.' When the prophets in the Old Testament spoke genuine prophecies from God that are not recorded in scripture (and there are references to this), weren't these 'the word of the LORD.'


Words of wisdom and knowledge, however, are not under the same constriction. Their purposes are for guidance and direction as opposed to speaking for God.
I don't see the distinction. A word of knowledge is a 'word'. If it is legit, is it not from God?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#99
I personally don't take anything from any church statements. The most I've ever taken from a preacher was something to think about. I keep hearing people here talking about this preacher or that preacher or Benny Hinn did this or that, and I really have no clue what they are talking about because I don't ascribe to any man. All they give me is food for thought, which I meditate with over scripture.

Now, you guys have given me some food for thought, and perhaps I'm not explaining it well because I myself need to tweak my stand on it. Lemme get back to you on that.

In the meantime, may I humbly and without malice say this...

I've seen a lot of questions go unanswered because the asker wasn't willing to accept anything that didn't precisely match their expectations.

I'm not pointing that at any one in particular. We all fall into that trap.

Truth is only available to those willing to question what they think they know.

And thanks to you guys, while I think I'm on the right path, you have put a question mark on whether I might have a duck out of line.

Let's just call it straining at gnats for the moment, and I'll get back to you.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
1 Corinthians 12
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,


The Bible makes a distinction between the word of knowledge and a word of wisdom.