Should we live like Jersus lived?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#41
The risen Christ doesn't, but the earthly Jesus did. The Lord said: “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head”. To the young rich man, the Lord said: "Sell all you have, give the money to the poor, ... , and then follow me".

Giving alms was was one of the laws of Moses, and give-all-you-have is this same law brought to perfection. In Matthew 5:48 Jesus said: "Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect".

Should Christians give away all they possess? The answer is "no". Can Christians be perfect? The answer is a resounding "noooooo".

Can we follow the earthly Jesus? No, of course not ................, but we can follow the risen Jesus.
If the Father and Christ are in perfect agreement, then what Christ is teaching is that God's way is more important than our house and car, but I don't think God teaches to live in a way your family you are responsible for should go hungry.

When Moses was given the law of God it included blessings to follow from obedience, and although those blessings did not include salvation they did include prosperity for God's people. The Jews who are more intent on law keeping show this to be true as statistically they have more in every way than any other race. If Christ is teaching that following Him means giving up our homes then Christ and God are not in agreement.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#43
Aren't you out of hay yet?

Why don't you be VERY specific about what YOU mean by "following Jesus"?

YOU said this statement in your OP:
However, when scripture tells us that something is ordered “for all generations” that applies to both Jews and gentiles who accept the Lord.

Now tell us what YOU believe is EXACTLY ordered?

Saturday Sabbath for instance?
You are teaching bible, teaching all about grace.

But while you are understanding grace you do not understand law at all. They are only related in the fact that grace is dependent on faith and having faith is how Christ saves, having faith in God's grace, does not cancel the faith we are to have in God's law.
When the law was given by God to Moses the blessings for following law was also given. Those blessing are wonderful and great, but the blessing we have from obedience has never including salvation. Grace and law is, was, and always will be separate. It is wonderful to know, but it does not cancel the blessings and wonders of the law.

If you find a scripture telling us the grace cancels law please post it. Paul in Romans and Galatians really got on a soap box about law obedience without God's spirit and spoke eloquently against it. The conclusion Paul came to was that legalism was wrong but he always told us "heaven forbid" that it cancels all need for our obedience.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
363
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#44
Jesus was a Jew, we are gentile. Jesus lived as a Jew and we are told we need not be Jews to be accepted by the Lord. But we are told that when we accept Christ in our life we become Israel. That means that we need not follow rituals that Jesus followed but we do need to accept the spirit of God in our life.

We need not be physically circumcised, but we need to set ourselves apart from people who do not let God direct them. We don’t need to follow Jews’ dietary laws, but we need to watch carefully what we let in our bodies and minds. However, when scripture tells us that something is ordered “for all generations” that applies to both Jews and gentiles who accept the Lord.

Gentiles know that by accepting what Christ did for us when He died to pay for our sins, we have eternal life through accepting that, but what about following Jesus in this life? The Jews were doing this, but they have mostly turned away from such a life, and they do not accept what Christ did for them. There is, however, a book written by Israel Abraham called “Jewish Life in the Middle Ages” that spells out the life as Jesus lived it and tells of the results of that. It was after the middle ages that Jews mostly turned from living as Jesus did. These people followed the rituals, also, that we need not follow but they also lived the life the rituals were to lead to and it would be interesting reading for gentiles.

If gentiles accepted Christ, not only as a Savior but as a model for how to live, it would change not only lives for good, but the whole world.
Jesus lived under the law physically, but once He nailed that way to the cross, all now live under the law spiritually. For example, instead of physical circumcision, we now have circumcision of the heart- which is performed by God with Christ's blood during baptism (Colossians 2). So yes we have to live as Jesus did, but in the spiritual way not the physical way.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#45
If the Father and Christ are in perfect agreement, then what Christ is teaching is that God's way is more important than our house and car, but I don't think God teaches to live in a way your family you are responsible for should go hungry.
But Jesus did tell his disciples to sell their properties and share the money with the poor. In Acts 4:32-34 we see the disciples obeying the commandment of Jesus.

After the cross Jesus gave different teachings through Paul. Did the apostle ever say something like "sell all you have and distribute the money among the poor"?

Acts 4:32-35

The Believers Share Their Possessions
32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#46
........... So yes we have to live as Jesus did, but in the spiritual way not the physical way.
Yes, .... , and we have to admit that a spiritual way is DIFFERENT from a physical way. So Paul's teachings are different from the earthly Jesus' teachings.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,369
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#47
Yes, .... , and we have to admit that a spiritual way is DIFFERENT from a physical way. So Paul's teachings are different from the earthly Jesus' teachings.
If they are different from Jesus earthly teachings then one is not to be believed. What differences do you see?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,369
1,344
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#48
But Jesus did tell his disciples to sell their properties and share the money with the poor. In Acts 4:32-34 we see the disciples obeying the commandment of Jesus.

After the cross Jesus gave different teachings through Paul. Did the apostle ever say something like "sell all you have and distribute the money among the poor"?

Acts 4:32-35

The Believers Share Their Possessions
32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
I do not believe that when scripture reports an event or thought a human has it is always for us to follow. There is even cannibalism reported in scripture.

All attempts of socialism including the one reported in scripture has failed.

I think the book "Jews in the Middle Ages" by Isaac Abraham gives an accurate picture of how Jesus wants us to be charitable. At that time the Jews did not let any of their people be in want.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#49
If they are different from Jesus earthly teachings then one is not to be believed. What differences do you see?
For example:

Jesus Heals a Man With Leprosy

40 A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.”

41 Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” 42 Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed.

43 Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: 44 “See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.”

See? Jesus taught obedience to the Law and Paul released us from the Law.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,572
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#50
I do not believe that when scripture reports an event or thought a human has it is always for us to follow. There is even cannibalism reported in scripture.
On this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. :)

Much bad teaching is based only on narrative rather than didactic passages.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#51
" walk as Jesus walked ", " live as Jesus lived ", are code for " keep the Sabbath ".

that is a tactic the judeaizers use to try to confuse and guilt Christians.
Both Jesus and Paul rejected what was created by the Jews called Judaism. Jesus and Paul did not however reject those who were the righteous of the old way in Adam, who had died and were in sheol awaiting their Messiah. Which was the church (or Light) in the wilderness not Judaism. 😋
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,473
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#52
Both Jesus and Paul rejected what was created by the Jews called Judaism. Jesus and Paul did not however reject those who were the righteous of the old way in Adam, who had died and were in sheol awaiting their Messiah. Which was the church (or Light) in the wilderness not Judaism. 😋
we are saved by faith in trust in Christ. nothing t do with the Law of Moses.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,473
4,231
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#53
I do not believe that when scripture reports an event or thought a human has it is always for us to follow. There is even cannibalism reported in scripture.

All attempts of socialism including the one reported in scripture has failed.

I think the book "Jews in the Middle Ages" by Isaac Abraham gives an accurate picture of how Jesus wants us to be charitable. At that time the Jews did not let any of their people be in want.
perhaps you forgot or missed my question-

was Jesus fully God and fully man?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,369
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#54
For example:

Jesus Heals a Man With Leprosy

40 A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.”

41 Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” 42 Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed.

43 Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: 44 “See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.”

See? Jesus taught obedience to the Law and Paul released us from the Law.
I had a terrible time with this and spent months trying to understand.

My answer came, not through scripture, but by history. History is a difficult subject because by reporting only one side of a happening it distorts it. I finally found four histories of the time of Jesus that I felt I could trust--all four were written by professors teaching in Harvard or Yale of all places. They said that the gossip of the people at that time was about the 18 requirements rabbis made for people joining them and the people called these the Law of Moses. Paul, as we read in Acts was very opposed to requiring this for joining the church.

A careful study of Paul shows that each time he spoke against the legalistic obedience to law Paul concludes that it has nothing to do with accepting God's law. Even the courts of that time agreed that Paul did not speak against God's law.
perhaps you forgot or missed my question-

was Jesus fully God and fully man?
I cannot believe that you are actually trying to communicate with me, only trying to bate me.

You know from my posts that I believe in every word of scripture. That would mean that Christ lived as fully man and fully God. What I question is why you are asking?
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#55
Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,473
4,231
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#56
I had a terrible time with this and spent months trying to understand.

My answer came, not through scripture, but by history. History is a difficult subject because by reporting only one side of a happening it distorts it. I finally found four histories of the time of Jesus that I felt I could trust--all four were written by professors teaching in Harvard or Yale of all places. They said that the gossip of the people at that time was about the 18 requirements rabbis made for people joining them and the people called these the Law of Moses. Paul, as we read in Acts was very opposed to requiring this for joining the church.

A careful study of Paul shows that each time he spoke against the legalistic obedience to law Paul concludes that it has nothing to do with accepting God's law. Even the courts of that time agreed that Paul did not speak against God's law.

I cannot believe that you are actually trying to communicate with me, only trying to bate me.

You know from my posts that I believe in every word of scripture. That would mean that Christ lived as fully man and fully God. What I question is why you are asking?
this is not a bait question- Christians believe that Jesus was fully God and fully man on earth , lived a perfect , sinless life, was a unblemished sacrifice , and rose on the 3rd day ( not the Sabbath ).

we believe in Him, accept His righteousness by faith, and that is how we are saved.

or, that is the ONLY way to be saved.

Sabbath and Law of Moses keeping is not involved in that.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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#57
hi Blik,

do we live like Jesus lived? sure, in some ways.

Jesus celebrated the feasts, at least the feasts of booths and Passover by going to Jerusalem. shall we go to Jerusalem? probably not.

Jesus said he had authority on Earth to forgive sins. do we say that? That's a controversial issue.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,369
1,344
113
#58
this is not a bait question- Christians believe that Jesus was fully God and fully man on earth , lived a perfect , sinless life, was a unblemished sacrifice , and rose on the 3rd day ( not the Sabbath ).

we believe in Him, accept His righteousness by faith, and that is how we are saved.

or, that is the ONLY way to be saved.

Sabbath and Law of Moses keeping is not involved in that.
If you would like to have us communicate instead of smarting off, wow!! I love it.

Yes, I agree. Salvation is not given to man based on his works.

What we don't seem to agree on is the next step after we become a saved child of God. I believe a saved person has faith in the Lord and what the Lord tells us. That results in our listening when we are guided through this life we have on earth. I don't believe we are listening to the Lord when we tell God no, we won't obey Him for that is work and that work doesn't save us. I believe like James that our faith leads to work.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,369
1,344
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#59
hi Blik,

do we live like Jesus lived? sure, in some ways.

Jesus celebrated the feasts, at least the feasts of booths and Passover by going to Jerusalem. shall we go to Jerusalem? probably not.

Jesus said he had authority on Earth to forgive sins. do we say that? That's a controversial issue.
If you read scripture it is explained well about how to obey such as the feasts. Going to Jerusalem was a fleshly way to obey. We are told to obey as the Holy Spirit leads us not by such as traveling to Jerusalem. It is right there in scripture for us to learn.

Who is your opponent that tells you Christ did not give His blood to pay for our sins? On this site we have many who say that Christ did away with the law of the Lord and many things that are in opposition to scripture, but I thought it was agreed by all that Christ is our Savior.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,042
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#60
If you read scripture it is explained well about how to obey such as the feasts. Going to Jerusalem was a fleshly way to obey. We are told to obey as the Holy Spirit leads us not by such as traveling to Jerusalem. It is right there in scripture for us to learn.

Who is your opponent that tells you Christ did not give His blood to pay for our sins? On this site we have many who say that Christ did away with the law of the Lord and many things that are in opposition to scripture, but I thought it was agreed by all that Christ is our Savior.
right, what physical actions we take in response to the law are led by the spirit. it seems that that will vary widely from one person to the next. one person tithes 10%, I go with the part and Romans that says that the one who loves has fulfilled the law.

we both agree that Jesus paid for our sins. Jesus told a particular man that his sins were forgiven. do we say that? I suppose that if the spirit led me to say that to someone, I could also think of a verse or two that would support that.