Should we study the rituals God gave Israel?

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oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,333
1,735
113
#21
James says that 'all scripture is profitable for---" - the apostle Paul preached out of the OT -
so, if you can't take any piece of Scripture and preach the Gospel from it, then you don't
understand it - we know this, and we are still 'working on it'! :):)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
494
83
#22
Rituals as cerimonial laws lead to the cross as shadows of the true not seen, but they do not perfect or cause growth as something we could judge one another in that includes all the ceremonies Sabbaths, as a ceremonial law.

Ceremonial law bridge the waiting period as reminders to encourage us to what is coming ahead. You could say as a living hope.

Like the ceremonial circumcision a reminder of our bloody husband Christ suffering before hand . as revealed in Exodus. Moses was almost killed for not honoring that reminder that was to encourage the believer ...He is coming be patient walk by faith .Moses was saved by his gentile wife (Zipporah) whom God moved as a prophet as shown in the parable below .

And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.Exodus 4:24-26

Christ fulfilled that ceremonial law when he said it is finished, the promised glory came.

Ceremonial laws as shadows (the temporal) preached the gospel as to the eternal unseen, as understanding beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that followed the veil rent opened up the graves of the old testament saints that has the spirt of Christ in them opening the gates of the first resurrection .The time of reformation.

They like us receive the end of the faith of God that worked in them to both will and do his good pleasure from the beginning we look back, they looked ahead .

1 Peter offers us the sweet fragrance created by the use of ceremonial laws it rises up to our father as a living sacrifice.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:11
From studying Paul I have the understanding that Christ brought in the Holy Spirit to us all and that was the time the ceremonial law was not to be used any more.

We know the sacrificial system was a ceremonial law, and Christ is our sacrificial lamb so it is against the Lord's guidance to use that ceremony now. I think it is the same with the other ceremonies.

But the spiritual laws that the ceremonies led to is still in effect, and reading what the Lord said when God gave those laws to us helps us understand the spiritual laws they led to.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,374
3,079
113
#24
I think we should.
Rituals have been set aside by God. So what you would like to do is oppose God in this matter and appear to be religious through DEAD WORKS. But God will have none of it.

HEBREWS 9

6
Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,062
670
113
72
#25
I think we should.

These were given to a pagan nation to guide them to obeying God's laws. God's laws are like a roadmap leading to abundance in all ways.

Now, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Almost everyone can read and all can know of the path God lays out for us, we really don't need the rituals to lead us. But most of us are somewhat lacking in discipline to remember to always do, or even the knowledge of that path. God gave instructions very clearly when God gave the rituals, we need to know and understand them.

As an example, we know that Christ shed blood to pay for our sins. When they were told to shed innocent animal blood they were given valuable information we need about the sins this blood (now Christ's blood) paid for.
The answer is YES because the rituals God gave to Israel were shadows of the Spiritual realities that existed then and now. The rituals
along with the rest of the OT help us to have a clearer understanding of Christ and the NT which is a commentary on the OT.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
494
83
#26
Rituals have been set aside by God. So what you would like to do is oppose God in this matter and appear to be religious through DEAD WORKS. But God will have none of it.

HEBREWS 9
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Rituals are set aside, are you saying God was all wrong when God originally gave those rituals and we must not allow our minds to accept any information about them now? Scripture does not agree with you, it tells us all scripture is for our profit.

Have you read what Paul tells us about even the ritual of circumcision? Paul tells us that we are to be spiritually circumcised.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,374
3,079
113
#27
Rituals are set aside, are you saying God was all wrong when God originally gave those rituals and we must not allow our minds to accept any information about them now?
You have a knack for two things:

1. Failing to actually read and comprehend what is in NT Scripture.

2. Failing to properly understand the significance of Christ and the New Covenant.

Had you read and digested what was quoted from the New Testament, you would not ask "are you saying God was all wrong when God originally gave those rituals".

...Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation...

God is telling you that He gave those rituals UNTIL THE TIME OF REFORMATION (the establishment of the New Covenant). But you don't want to believe Him. That is pure unbelief.

Next "...we must not allow our minds to accept any information about them now..."

Do you see anything from Acts to Revelation which tells you to focus your mind on these rituals? Indeed, Acts 15 tells you the exact opposite.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,025
2,879
113
#28
You know perfectly well you are telling fibs about my postings, and I wonder why?

Are you so dead set against scripture if it isn't the commentary on the OT that the NT is that you attack anything God tells you not labeled "new" by men?
all right, if I am fibbing about your beliefs, then keeping the Sabbath is optional for a Christ followers, right?

nothing wrong if one chooses to keep it, fine, if one chooses not to, fine, right?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
494
83
#29
You have a knack for two things:

1. Failing to actually read and comprehend what is in NT Scripture.

2. Failing to properly understand the significance of Christ and the New Covenant.

Had you read and digested what was quoted from the New Testament, you would not ask "are you saying God was all wrong when God originally gave those rituals".

...Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation...

God is telling you that He gave those rituals UNTIL THE TIME OF REFORMATION (the establishment of the New Covenant). But you don't want to believe Him. That is pure unbelief.

Next "...we must not allow our minds to accept any information about them now..."

Do you see anything from Acts to Revelation which tells you to focus your mind on these rituals? Indeed, Acts 15 tells you the exact opposite.
What do you think I actually don't get? The NT is the fulfillment of what the OT tells us, do you not believe this?

You tell us we should not read or know about scripture that is in the OT. Please give scripture backup for this belief of yours. Would you tell us if you think the OT was breathed of God as the NT is?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
494
83
#30
all right, if I am fibbing about your beliefs, then keeping the Sabbath is optional for a Christ followers, right?

nothing wrong if one chooses to keep it, fine, if one chooses not to, fine, right?
Paul told us that we are not to judge anyone based on a date. God told us that when He created the world He made the Sabbath blessed for us, it is part of creation. I choose to honor this. You tell me it is a terrible thing I am doing when I choose this. You have not given any scripture telling me it is absolutely wrong. I state what I choose to do, you judge me for it. I have not judged you, I have simply stated my choice. I have scripture backup for my choice. Where is your scripture back up for your judgement of me?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,374
3,079
113
#31
What do you think I actually don't get? The NT is the fulfillment of what the OT tells us, do you not believe this?
Then why don't you explain "until the time of the reformation"? That tells you exactly what to do with rituals.

Indeed, had you carefully studied the epistle to the Hebrews, you would not even have started this thread.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,025
2,879
113
#32
Paul told us that we are not to judge anyone based on a date. God told us that when He created the world He made the Sabbath blessed for us, it is part of creation. I choose to honor this. You tell me it is a terrible thing I am doing when I choose this. You have not given any scripture telling me it is absolutely wrong. I state what I choose to do, you judge me for it. I have not judged you, I have simply stated my choice. I have scripture backup for my choice. Where is your scripture back up for your judgement of me?
did you miss the part where I said that anyone who chooses to keep the Sabbath can, and that is fine.


my reasoning- gentiles never had the Law. Paul said so in Romans 2. there is your fact and Scripture.
 
Dec 28, 2016
8,137
1,743
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#33
Blik the outcome is Bleak if you're trusting in anything, anything, anything other than the work of Christ to save your soul.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,911
5,386
113
#34
I didn't. I was asking.
This:
Are you suggesting that we do not accept Christ's giving himself to pay for our sins as the sacrificial system tells us about? Or that we should keep our minds from dirt as the dietary laws teach? Or we should keep ourselves as belonging to the Lord as circumcision teach?

Or are you saying we do not need the physical reminders to do these things?

Or do you mean that you believe we can make our own way without God's input?
is "just asking"?

I suggested nothing of that.

Methinks you have a chip on your shoulder, and you're "just" baiting me to knock it off.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,057
1,577
113
#35
Sorry peeps just reading the discussion seems like you all will argue over anything just for the sake of it.

Whenever anyone says you 'should' do anything someone will resist and ask why, who are you to tell us we should do this or that.

But this is a bugbear between those may be having the conviction of the holy spirit to actively study the word of God and those who frankly...just cant be bothered. But if you cant be bothered then you really missing out on what God had done to prepare his people for His coming. You are missing out on all the teaching and all the things that shaped his holy nation. And you will miss out on what the significance of it was. How can you celebrate the Lords supper if you dont have a basic understanding about Passover?
How can you understand Jesus saying we are the temples of the holy spirit if you dont know how the original temple operated? Why do we even have weekends if it is not for God instituting the Sabbath to have a day of rest?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,655
1,905
113
#36
I think we should.

These were given to a pagan nation to guide them to obeying God's laws. God's laws are like a roadmap leading to abundance in all ways.

Now, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Almost everyone can read and all can know of the path God lays out for us, we really don't need the rituals to lead us. But most of us are somewhat lacking in discipline to remember to always do, or even the knowledge of that path. God gave instructions very clearly when God gave the rituals, we need to know and understand them.

As an example, we know that Christ shed blood to pay for our sins. When they were told to shed innocent animal blood they were given valuable information we need about the sins this blood (now Christ's blood) paid for.
Must we? No
Could we? No (There are no longer a High Priest and/or sacrifices)
Should we? Why dwell in the shadows?
BTW Israel was not a pagan Nation when they had and followed God's Word. They acted pagan when they turned their back on his Word.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
494
83
#37
This:


is "just asking"?

I suggested nothing of that.

Methinks you have a chip on your shoulder, and you're "just" baiting me to knock it off.
Your posts all say you object to the study of scripture to see the spiritual law the rituals were to lead to, yet you are not giving a reason from scripture for this objection. You say what isn't a reason for your objection, but we need to know what IS the scripture you base your objection on.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,911
5,386
113
#38
Your posts all say you object to the study of scripture to see the spiritual law the rituals were to lead to, yet you are not giving a reason from scripture for this objection. You say what isn't a reason for your objection, but we need to know what IS the scripture you base your objection on.
If my posts all say that I object to the study of Scripture (for any reason), then surely you can quote at least two of them. Once you do that then I'll address the rest of your post.
 

Miri

The Thingy Member
Jul 22, 2012
9,228
2,219
113
UK age 51
#39
blik thinks that Jesus was crucified on wed. and raised on the Sabbath, so we have to keep it to be saved.

just so you know the mindset at work here...……...
I agree that gb9 has a terrible mindset of mocking an elderly lady.


Just so you know Blik is a lovely elderly lady who lives in a care home.
The only social interaction she has is on CC.
So try showing a bit of respect. She has a great deal of experience both in
walking with Jesus and in life. She never said any of the things you accuse
her of. Yes Blik has certain traditions she was brought up with but haven’t we
all. They are harmless and she doesn’t try to force others to follow them.

Blik asks questions, draws out truths by the way she phrases things.
Which is remarkable for her age. Blik you may not realise it but you are
a teacher at heart I hope I will still have your clarity of thinking and the
ability to use all the modern technology around me when I’m your age,

Most people unfortunately are so busy and blinded by their own lack
of knowledge to correctly see what you are getting at.
 

Miri

The Thingy Member
Jul 22, 2012
9,228
2,219
113
UK age 51
#40
I most positively was not saying God wants us to keep the physical laws, but I AM saying God wants us to keep the spiritual ones God wanted the physical obedience to lead to.

I get what you are saying even if the others don’t.

Folks she is not saying we can’t eat pork, must still sacrifice animals,
get circumcised etc. Blik is asking can you see the spiritual intent and
reasoning behind it. Even in the Old Testament God wanted obedience rather
than sacrifice. He wanted people who would worship Him in spirit and in truth
rather than people who obeyed the commandments. Why? Because by doing so
meant everything else fell into place.

There is a saying the New is in the Old concealed, the Old is in the New
revealed. (Testament).