Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?

[7seasrekeyed]

following is how I perceive the Lord's prayer (from GotQuestions....there are complicated responses that can be given but I'm referencing GotQuestions because they lay it out in a very easy to follow pattern, backing it all up with scripture

The Lord’s Prayer should be understood as an example, a pattern, of how to pray. It gives us the “ingredients” that should go into prayer. Here is how it breaks down. “Our Father in heaven” is teaching us whom to address our prayers to—the Father. “Hallowed be your name” is telling us to worship God, and to praise Him for who He is.
The phrase “your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” is a reminder to us that we are to pray for God’s plan in our lives and the world, not our own plan. We are to pray for God’s will to be done, not for our desires.
We are encouraged to ask God for the things we need in “give us today our daily bread.”
“Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” reminds us to confess our sins to God and to turn from them, and also to forgive others as God has forgiven us. The conclusion of the Lord’s Prayer, “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one” is a plea for help in achieving victory over sin and a request for protection from the attacks of the devil.

as Jesus also spoke against vain repetition, it pretty much is a no brainer that He never expected everyone to repeat the prayer He taught His disciples, as a verbatim prayer and they were good to go

however, that DOES seem to be the argument being used by some...which is a red herring IMO

the real problem, seems to be where Jesus says we need to forgive as we have been forgiven

if you disagree with that, you are DEFINITELY going to have a problem with Matthew 6:9-13

seems some think Jesus was just a 'traditonalist'

that's a false gospel

the ONLY reason we can ask for forgiveness IS because we are forgiven because of God's plan for our salvation

the ONLY reason we can extend forgiveness to others, is exactly the same, and reflect's Jesus' words of forgive as we have been forgiven

and please, none of the above means if we die with an 'unforgiven' sin we go to hell

that's not even a reasonable, intelligent argument to entertain

obviously, as Miri has already stated, if we extend horizontal forgiveness, that is relational and an extension of the love of God

 

[joaniemarie]

Hi Ben,

No that was nearly all scripture both old and new but all for. We should obey God rather then man. Some turn to man instead of God and follow the word of website over the Word of God. We need to seek Jesus through the Word only. He will teach us and all will find him if they with honest heart seek him to know him. He stands at our door and knocks. Who will open?

We live in amazing times and have access to many materials we never had before. New technology can be used both for good or for evil. Christians have a duty to use it for good and many do. Before books came into being., would you have declared them to be against the Word of God?

GADZOOKS No more parchments so those new fangled books they are making now are against the Word of God??

No not at all. Same as different Bible translations and different Bible commentary from different Christians. Same as TV or the internet., or IPhones and IPads are they bad? And what about DVDs or CDs replacing records and tapes? What if a Christian likes hearing the Word rather than reading it?

The Bible is written FOR US but not every verse was written TO US. The Bible has certain verses that were written to specific people at and for a specific time. We learn from it all but must distinguish each one. The old covenant has specific requirements that needed to be adhered to and obeyed such as the 10 commandments and the animal sacrifices.

But today that old covenant is obsolete. We are now under the new covenant and we are to interpret the Scriptures according to the Cross now. Jesus came and fulfilled all the laws requirements so now man can go to the throne of God without anything but Jesus righteousness.

Many Christians are still trying to meet God's requirements through the old covenant when they need to "step over" to the new covenant that Jesus brought in when He died on the Cross. "Faith" in Jesus and His finished work on the Cross is the requirement to come to God freely. And we have Him! hallelujah!!!!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

as the wisest man who ever lived said

'nothing new under the sun'

so much of the NT written to correct error and refute heresy

God is not 'big daddy in the sky'

He is Holy, righteous and sent His Son to die for our sins

yet we have WOF, NAR, the prophetic movement and a slew of others trying to sugar coat the warnings that God was gracious enough to insert so we would not become 'lukewarm' or worse

 

[LoveGodForever]

We live in amazing times and have access to many materials we never had before. New technology can be used both for good or for evil. Christians have a duty to use it for good and many do. Before books came into being., would you have declared them to be against the Word of God?
GADZOOKS No more parchments so those new fangled books they are making now are against the Word of God??
No not at all. Same as different Bible translations and different Bible commentary from different Christians. Same as TV or the internet., or IPhones and IPads are they bad? And what about DVDs or CDs replacing records and tapes? What if a Christian likes hearing the Word rather than reading it?
The Bible is written FOR US but not every verse was written TO US. The Bible has certain verses that were written to specific people at and for a specific time. The old covenant has specific requirements that needed to be adhered to and obeyed such as the 10 commandments and the animal sacrifices.
But today that old covenant is obsolete. We are now under the new covenant and we are to interpret the Scriptures according to the Cross now. Jesus came and fulfilled all the laws requirements so now man can go to the throne of God without anything but Jesus righteousness.
Many Christians are still trying to meet God's requirements through the old covenant when they need to "step over" to the new covenant that Jesus brought in when He died on the Cross. "Faith" in Jesus and His finished work on the Cross is the requirement to come to God freely. And we have Him! hallelujah!!!!

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

John 12:47-48
If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Who should we believe and follow God or man; word of website or Word of God?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

But today that old covenant is obsolete. We are now under the new covenant and we are to interpret the Scriptures according to the Cross now. Jesus came and fulfilled all the laws requirements so now man can go to the throne of God without anything but Jesus righteousness.

what certain people who seem to love saying the above do not know or possibly have forgotten or choose to ignore, is that FAITH was ALWAYS what has incurred God's righteousness extended

apparently, this is a concept that Abraham onward knew.

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”[SUP]a[/SUP]

8First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP]b[/SUP]

17Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP]c[/SUP]

18And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary

Hebrews 10.

what does Jesus mean by this? (following)


5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”[SUP]a[/SUP]

the law made nothing perfect and Abraham was accounted righteous long before Moses

this is continually overlooked by some as they beat on their ever popular covenant drum NOT REALIZING that there are actually ...SEVEN...I believe it is

maybe take the entire 66 books into consideration

the OT sheds light on the new and if it is tossed into file 13, it is the loss of the reader and everyone in their sphere of influence




[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[oldethennew]

I'm unlearned in this area, and cannot provide a quote. I also don't wish to entertain fallacious logic. A quote from a person doesn't carry more weight than God's word, which I have amply provided.

==========================================

is this 'statement bizarre' or is it just us?!?!?!........................................................................

 

[7seasrekeyed]

==========================================

is this 'statement bizarre' or is it just us?!?!?!........................................................................

seeing as 'God's word' is handily contorted to prove that Jesus is outdated and He never apparently said we should forgive as we are forgiven...

well, you could be on to something

 

[joaniemarie]

"Abba" Father is the Hebrew word for Daddy. We are His children because of Jesus His Son who He sent Himself. Although God is still and always will be ALL holy., God is still and always will be ALL righteous and total perfection ... ... Jesus has given us access to God and we are now adopted into the family.

We are now called to come into His presence and call Him our Father and sit on His lap sort of speak as little children. We are no longer a far off. Our relationship has totally changed now because of Jesus. This was not always true for us because we were once dead in trespasses and sins., afar off and without God in the world.... But now because of this so great a salvation., we are to have strong confidence in God's love for us and walk in the strength and power of the Holy Spirit with "confidence".

Behold what manner of love the Father has given unto us....That we should be called the sons of God....

 

[oldethennew]

Amen, all sins forgiven past, present and future.

We do not create or maintain our own righteousness.

If ongoing sin confession is a part of maintaining our salvation or our righteousness then we have made it a work which is not the gospel.

=============================================

take 'heed', you've just given a lot of people a 'license to kill'...

 

[Issachar92]

I didnt even realize until recently that there exists christians who think Jesus' words are old covenant. This should be a thread of its own i think, i should make a poll about this. The thing is folks: Jesus said His words are forever, while He was alive He spoke the testament, which then came into force when He died and resurrected.
This is very clearly how a testament works, is it not? Wouldnt it be a bit deceiving of Jesus to teach the apostles all kindsa things and then flip the script so to speak and change everything where all His words dont apply no more?

Or did I misunderstand yalls view on this somehow? I really am confused on this. Do yall pick and choose what is "new covenant doctrine" and what isnt or how does it go? Im sure john 3:16 is used by yall. But why isnt the sermon on the mount "new covenant" then? Same Jesus, same time period? Help me out.

 

[Issachar92]

If ongoing sin confession is a part of maintaining our salvation or our righteousness then we have made it a work which is not the gospel.

This again. When Paul writes not of works, he is talking about circumcision (acts 15:1) and other works of the law. He aint talking about obeying Jesus.
Them folks in Ephesus to whom Paul wrote not of works were godly christians who had been baptized. read Acts 19

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"Abba" Father is the Hebrew word for Daddy. We are His children because of Jesus His Son who He sent Himself. Although God is still and always will be ALL holy., God is still and always will be ALL righteous and total perfection ... ... Jesus has given us access to God and we are now adopted into the family.

We are now called to come into His presence and call Him our Father and sit on His lap sort of speak as little children. We are no longer a far off. Our relationship has totally changed now because of Jesus. This was not always true for us because we were once dead in trespasses and sins., afar off and without God in the world.... But now because of this so great a salvation., we are to have strong confidence in God's love for us and walk in the strength and power of the Holy Spirit with "confidence".

Behold what manner of love the Father has given unto us....That we should be called the sons of God....

read Revelation

God kind of forgets the daddy part through much of that book...not to mention all the warnings to the churches

yeah I don't think you are sitting on God's lap considering He is not flesh and blood

that is more nonsense from hyper charismatics

supply a verse or two that states you are sitting on God's lap

and by the way, the actual meaning of 'abba' would be an intimate term for Father, and as God IS now our Father that is so; sadly, some seem to think that to mean that they have nothing else to consider

which makes many books in the Bible obsolete it would seem

and yet Jesus will say to some 'I never knew you'

and right now, those same people that He will say that to, are thinking they are good to go because no warnings apply to them

 

[oldethennew]

bottom line: if one is out of God's Will, according to His Holy scriptures, you can
argue and post scriptures from daylight to dawn to try and justify yourselves,
but it won't change a thing in Jesus' Mind, future for His 'called-chosen-elect'...,
His ways, that He ordained from before the world was even created...

what a 'waste' of LIFE and LOVE, some choose to 'cling-to' - we know from whence they come!...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I didnt even realize until recently that there exists christians who think Jesus' words are old covenant. This should be a thread of its own i think, i should make a poll about this. The thing is folks: Jesus said His words are forever, while He was alive He spoke the testament, which then came into force when He died and resurrected.
This is very clearly how a testament works, is it not? Wouldnt it be a bit deceiving of Jesus to teach the apostles all kindsa things and then flip the script so to speak and change everything where all His words dont apply no more?

Or did I misunderstand yalls view on this somehow? I really am confused on this. Do yall pick and choose what is "new covenant doctrine" and what isnt or how does it go? Im sure john 3:16 is used by yall. But why isnt the sermon on the mount "new covenant" then? Same Jesus, same time period? Help me out.

a few people on here follow Ellis who may be worse than Prince

itching ears and someone to scratch them

I don't think God has ever been as popular as He now is

and yes, that last sentence does require some thought. think about why God has been so unpopular

then consider the new gospel being preached and it comes together

 

[oldethennew]

'Great Peace have they that Love Thy Law,
and
nothing shall offend them'...

 

[LoveGodForever]

"Abba" Father is the Hebrew word for Daddy. We are His children because of Jesus His Son who He sent Himself. Although God is still and always will be ALL holy., God is still and always will be ALL righteous and total perfection ... ... Jesus has given us access to God and we are now adopted into the family.
We are now called to come into His presence and call Him our Father and sit on His lap sort of speak as little children. We are no longer a far off. Our relationship has totally changed now because of Jesus. This was not always true for us because we were once dead in trespasses and sins., afar off and without God in the world.... But now because of this so great a salvation., we are to have strong confidence in God's love for us and walk in the strength and power of the Holy Spirit with "confidence". Behold what manner of love the Father has given unto us....That we should be called the sons of God....

He is our father indeed...

1John 2:28
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.....

1John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John 8:31-32
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

1John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psalm 32:5
I acknowledge my sin unto thee , and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgave the iniquity of my sin.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covers his sins shall not prosper : but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

1John 2:3-6
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5, But whoso keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6, He that saith he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1John 3:6
Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.

Who should we obey God or man? The word of website of the Word of God?

 

[joaniemarie]

I didnt even realize until recently that there exists christians who think Jesus' words are old covenant. This should be a thread of its own i think, i should make a poll about this. The thing is folks: Jesus said His words are forever, while He was alive He spoke the testament, which then came into force when He died and resurrected.
This is very clearly how a testament works, is it not? Wouldnt it be a bit deceiving of Jesus to teach the apostles all kindsa things and then flip the script so to speak and change everything where all His words dont apply no more?

Or did I misunderstand yalls view on this somehow? I really am confused on this. Do yall pick and choose what is "new covenant doctrine" and what isnt or how does it go? Im sure john 3:16 is used by yall. But why isnt the sermon on the mount "new covenant" then? Same Jesus, same time period? Help me out.

Many Christians today are still trying to access God through the old covenant. The old testament is for us to read and learn and take from. His Word is all 100% applicable for us Christians. ALLLL Scripture is given for doctrine., for reproof, for correction..., 2 Tim.3:16-17
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]All Scripture is [SUP][a][/SUP]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [SUP][b][/SUP]training in righteousness; [SUP]17 [/SUP]so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

We are also called to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" and we do that by hearing it and allowing the Holy Spirit it teach us. He will lead us into all truth. 2 Tim.2:15

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.


It's our responsibility to learn how to skillfully handle the Word of God. And He gives us the HolySpirit for this and other things. Please read what is being said IN CONTEXT. No one here has said to ignore the OT.
We are called to rightly divide it and to apply it where it should be.

We are all sons of Abraham and daughters of Sarah. Another topic worth looking into. The law was not given until Mosses came on the scene. Abraham and Sarah were under grace too. The Abrahamic covenant. But they didn't have the Holy Spirit the way we do under this covenant today. There are differences and it takes time to open up the Word and discover them.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

When we got saved,the spirits of just men was MADE PERFECTand It was made perfect by who?Answer=GOD.

So then Isn't GOD's perfect,perfect?

We learn from Deuteronomy 7:21-23 (Type and Shadow), little by little will He remove the sin nature that is made dormant in our lives. Isaiah 28:10 says, "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"

Romans 8:13 says, "If you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live." Paul warns the Believer, he said, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, (the) sin (nature) revived, and I died (failed God by sinning, using the flesh) (Romans 7:9)." Zechariah 4:6

The sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit mortifies the deed of the flesh by changing my condition into my position which is perfect and Holy because God has declared us justified (not guilt and innocent).

As a Christian we were "set free" the moment we are saved - "made free" speaks of a process. "Set Free," i.e., instantaneous - "Made Free, " i.e., You should know the truth and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32, John 14:6). "Made Free" = sanctification.

Two kinds of peace
1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15

2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3

The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.

 

[UnderGrace]

So are you using the same argument Paul was dealing with that grace is a license to sin?
This is twisted logic and Paul clearly tell us in

Romans 3:8

And some people even slander us by claiming that we say, "The more we sin, the better it is!" Those who say such things deserve to be condemned.
NIV

=============================================

take 'heed', you've just given a lot of people a 'license to kill'...

 

[UnderGrace]

Our works, be it work of the law, good works, or any other work, does not save us.

Jesus and His work saves us.

His work is the complete and finished work, we access His righteousness by belief in what He has done on our behalf.

This again. When Paul writes not of works, he is talking about circumcision (acts 15:1) and other works of the law. He aint talking about obeying Jesus.
Them folks in Ephesus to whom Paul wrote not of works were godly christians who had been baptized. read Acts 19