Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,
To mailmandan:
You state, “You error by placing repentance ‘after’ faith.”
I was absolutely right and you just proved my point. Faith in Christ in the churches of Christ is understood as nothing more than "mental assent" belief in the existence and historical facts about Christ. Repentance on the other hand is understood as moral "self-reformation." In regards to faith, those in the churches of Christ fail to understand that there is a
deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is
believing/trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and
cannot distinguish between mere "mental assent" belief and faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. They will cite that "even the devils believe" (from James 2:19) in their sermons and will contend that even the "faith of devils" is the same as any other faith "except" that the faith of devils lacks good works. The fact that you cannot grasp this
DEEPER faith which
trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."
So In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they
do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation (and neither do you). Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. So mere "mental assent" belief in Jesus and "trust and reliance" in "water and works" for salvation is not saving faith in Christ. Self-reformation is also no substitute for regeneration. Your understanding of repentance and faith gives rise to their reversal of the scriptural order of repentance and faith. To the contrary, we find the following verses.
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you
did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not
repent and believe him.
Mark 1:15 -
Repent and believe the gospel.
Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of
repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
I know you base your spin on examples where people believed in God but not Christ, confusing the issue, but let’s take a look at Acts 2 where there is no confusion.
It's actually you who confuses the issue as I explained above. Acts 2:38 has brought you much confusion as you set out to try and "force" the rest of Scripture to "conform" to your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38 and end up completely distorting (Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31).
In Acts 2:38 the three thousand were commanded, “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.”
Once again, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). *Perfect Harmony* Compare Acts 10:45 -
the gift of the Holy Spirit with Acts 2:38 -
the gift of the Holy Spirit. When was the Holy Spirit received?
When they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE water baptism (Acts 11:17). Acts 10:47 - "Can
anyone forbid water, that
these should not be baptized who
HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT just as we have?" *The truth is crystal clear.
Obviously they had not repented up to that time. Had they believed? IMO they must have believed because they were pierced to the heart when they heard Peter’s message.
In Acts 2:36-37, their "belief" at that point was only "mental assent" that "Jesus was the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him."
That is not saving belief yet. They still
lacked "trust and reliance in Christ alone for salvation. This is why they still needed to repent "change their minds" and trust exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. Not being able to grasp this
DEEPER faith which
trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation has led to your confusion here about their belief.
In verse 42 we are told that those who received the word were baptized.
Those who received his word (saved through repentance/faith) were afterwards baptized.
In verse 44 we are told, “All those who had believed were together.” A fair reading of these verses leads us to the conclusion that both repentance and baptism follow faith.
You are completely confused about repentance, which actually "precedes" saving faith in Christ. Baptism does FOLLOW faith though and faith is not baptism and we are saved through faith. Those who believe are saved (Luke 8:12; John 3:18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..). Those who believe the gospel and are saved do not still need to repent after they believe the gospel/place their faith in Christ for salvation in order to become saved. They have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel/place faith in Christ for salvation. *You still need to repent and believe the gospel.
The mental gyrations that take place when one comes to faith are not considered to be repentance, at least not in this passage. The statements, commands and promises that were made that day apply not only to the three thousand, but to every Jew and Gentile that God shall call to Himself. (Verse 39)
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341:
to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this "change of mind." Where salvation is in view, repentance is a change of mind about our sinful position and any form of self-trust in works, religious tradition, etc.. followed by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and
prove their repentance by their deeds. This is the
fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain preachers say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And if that is the case, then it is highly unlikely that anyone has ever been saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever COMPLETELY stopped sinning.
As long as we have people like you misrepresenting the gospel,
That statement is the epitome of irony!
people like me can never give it a rest.
People like you never give it a rest and continue to pervert the gospel. That's why people like me never give it a rest on defending the gospel.
I have no delusions about converting you as long as you continue to be an agenda keeper rather than a truth seeker.
You will NEVER convert me to Campbellism. I have already found the truth. Salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. Plain and simple. I pray that you will prayerfully consider the truth and place your faith in Christ for salvation and
quit trusting in your works, which cannot save you.
You, like all of us, need to deny yourself. Until you do, you are unreachable.
I have already denied myself many years ago and have received Christ through faith. Until you swallow your pride and are willing to let go of your works and take hold of Christ through faith, you will remain unreachable.
Your problem appears to be that you simply don’t believe the Scriptures which say, “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Your problem appears to be that you simply don't believe the Scriptures which say, "repent and be converted; whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins; the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles (BEFORE WATER BAPTISM); they received the same gift when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ/repentance unto life; acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit/no distinction between us and them/purified their hearts by faith; believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." You negate these clear passages of Scripture with your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38 (your pet verse) and even distort and pervert these clear passages of Scripture in order to make them "conform" to your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38. Your pet verse is also a favorite among Roman Catholics and Mormons and other false religions and cults that teach salvation by works. hhmmm...
red flag!
The statement is clear and simple unless you have a “faith only’ agenda which you value more than the Scriptures.
These statements in Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31 are clear unless you have a "saved by water baptism" (and not through faith) agenda which you value more than the Scriptures. As I already explained to you before, what a genuine believer means by salvation through faith IN CHRIST alone (saved through faith, not works) and what James means by "faith only" (empty profession of faith/dead faith that is barren of works) is not the same message. Don't remain fooled.
IMO baptism in water, in the name of Jesus, is one aspect of the one baptism. The other is the baptism with the Spirit which we receive when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We must be immersed in both water and the Spirit to experience the new birth, which is a birth from both water and Spirit.
False, but Roman Catholics and Mormons and other "works salvationists" would agree with you. We
receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). The
one baptism (Ephesians 4:5) is
Spirit baptism...by
one Spirit baptized into
one body (1 Corinthians 12:13)
not water baptism. Water baptism is a picture or symbol of the new birth and not the means of securing it. The Holy Spirit cleanses us/spiritual washing with living water and does the renewing, man submits to water baptism after the new birth to picture it forth to men. Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39.
Yes, we are saved by grace through faith which works through love.
We are saved by grace through faith "apart from additions or modifications" - (Ephesians 2:8) then as born again new creations in Christ our faith works through love. Our faith does not work through love in order for us to become saved but BECAUSE we are saved.
And the faith that saves is a perfected faith, perfected by obedience. God bless.
You are still putting the cart before the horse. Faith saves us the very moment that we place our faith in Christ for salvation and not after we accomplish a list of works because Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not on the merits of our works. Obedience which follows as a result of faith and salvation is WORKS and we are not saved by works. Your equation amounts to not saved through faith in Christ but by obedience/works which follow. Basically that is salvation through (your version) of faith AND works. As I said before, you are busted and clearly teach salvation by works!
Faith perfected by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham remained a lost man in Genesis 15:6 when he
believed the Lord and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness and was not finally saved until he accomplished the work of offering up Isaac on the altar. That is what your "saved by perfected faith" (not saved by faith until "after" it produces works and becomes perfected) amounts to. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. *I see that you dodged my question from post #335 - "Did Abraham have a perfected faith when he believed the Lord in Genesis 15:6 and his
faith was accounted to him for righteousness BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22?"
Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham
believed God, and
it (faith, not works) was
accounted to him for righteousness. *The truth is crystal clear, yet only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth, but you must be willing to receive the truth. Continue to seek for the truth and God bless.
