Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

CWJ

Banned
Jan 16, 2014
555
10
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Preacher:
Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins," is there any reason to believe that any other cases of water baptism were practiced for any other reason
'And I knew Him not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.'
(Joh 1:31)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,430
13,361
113
58
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Where did I say baptism in and of itself saves? I have never said that. Baptism is a WASHING that is how scripture describes it.
Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cleanse us on the inside, so the WASHING of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) is not water baptism. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done" but according to His mercy He saved us. Right after we read about water baptism in verses John 3:22-24, in verse 25, we read - An argument developed between some of John's disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the death of Christ. So baptism does not wash away sins literally, but ceremonially.

That cleansing takes place WHEN we are baptized. And that is BY FAITH.
The Bible states otherwise. Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. *What happened to baptism?These Gentiles believed in Him, received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). In Acts 11:17, looking back to the event that took place in Acts 10, we read - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." Also see Acts 3:19; 15:8,9.

I am not COC. I was brought up LCMS. Where did I say that the waters in baptism are THE ACTUAL shed water of Jesus? I never said that either.
It sure sounded like you were going in that direction with your reasoning.Here are some interesting statements from the LCMS website about water baptism: - Frequently Asked Questions | Doctrine - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Q: Can you please clarify the Lutheran view of Baptism and its purpose? Does the child become a Christian when baptized?

A: Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone. The Bible tells us that such “faith comes by hearing” (Rom. 10:17). Jesus Himself commands Baptism and tells us that Baptism is water used together with the Word of God (Matt. 28:19-20). Because of this, we believe that Baptism is one of the miraculous means of grace (another is God’s Word as it is written or spoken), through which God creates and/or strengthens the gift of faith in a person’s heart (see Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Gal. 3:26-27; Rom. 6:1-4; Col. 2:11-12; 1 Cor. 12.13). Terms the Bible uses to talk about the beginning of faith include “conversion” and “regeneration.” Although we do not claim to understand fully how this happens, we believe that when an infant is baptized God creates faith in the heart of that infant. We believe this because the Bible says that infants can believe (Matt. 18:6) and that new birth (regeneration) happens in Baptism (John 3:5-7; Titus 3:5-6). The infant’s faith cannot yet, of course, be verbally expressed or articulated by the child, yet it is real and present all the same (see e.g., Acts 2:38-39; Luke 1:15; 2 Tim. 3:15). The faith of the infant, like the faith of adults, also needs to be fed and nurtured by God’s Word (Matt. 28:18-20), or it will die.

Lutherans do not believe that only those baptized as infants receive faith. Faith can also be created in a person's heart by the power of the Holy Spirit working through God's (written or spoken) Word. Baptism should then soon follow conversion (cf. Acts 8:37) for the purpose of confirming and strengthening faith in accordance with God's command and promise. Depending on the situation, therefore, Lutherans baptize people of all ages from infancy to adulthood.

The LCMS does not believe that Baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation. All true believers in the Old Testament era were saved without baptism. Mark 16:16 implies that it is not the absence of Baptism that condemns a person but the absence of faith, and there are clearly other ways of coming to faith by the power of the Holy Spirit (reading or hearing the Word of God). Still, Baptism dare not be despised or willfully neglected, since it is explicitly commanded by God and has His precious promises attached to it. It is not a mere “ritual” or “symbol,” but a powerful means of grace by which God grants faith and the forgiveness of sins.

It sounds like the LCMS believes in baptizing infants, which is unscriptural. An infant is not old enough to repent and believe the gospel. One minute the LCMS church says that we are "saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone" and that we do not believe that "baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation" but then turns around and says that "baptism is a powerful means of grace by which God grants faith and the forgiveness of sins." Sounds like a mixed message to me. :eek:

Again baptism is PICTURE and it's of us agreeing with God that we need a savior and we need to be cleansed of our sins BY HIS DEATH.
Yes, as Greek scholar Daniel Wallace said -Water baptism is not a cause of salvation, but a PICTURE; and as such it serves both as a public acknowledgment (by those present) and a public confession (by the convert) that one has been Spirit baptized. As Greek scholar AT Robertson said - a symbol is not the reality, but the PICTURE of the reality. Baptism is the PICTURE, pointing to the death of Christ by which sins are actually washed away.

There is no more magical properties in the waters of baptism then is in a bronze snake. It was their FAITH in what God said, and when they did do what God said they were healed.
John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he (he has not been water baptized? NO) has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *What happened to baptism?

Trying to use passages that are not talking about baptism can NOT be use to show whether or not God does or does use baptism as a washing. Those passages are talking about the Holy Spirit, but there are NOT talking about baptism.
So you connect LIVING WATER (John 4:10,14; 7:38) with the Holy Spirit and not water baptism? That's a start. :)

That is true scripture must harmonize with scripture BUT IT THE WHOLE counsel of God and NOT verses CHERRY PICKED out of context, nor to use unrelated passages that have nothing to do with the subject.
The multiple passages of scripture that I have shared with you have not been cherry picked, but the verses on baptism have.

Isolated passages of scripture TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT can be used to PROVE anything, but again that is NOT the whole of God on a subject.
This is what people do when they set out to prove that salvation is by "water and works." They isolate passages TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT and do not harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion from the whole council of God on the subject.

Which is what you said here, which is the very thing that you are doing when leave OUT all the passages that show that baptism IS NOT JUST A DO NOTHING, CEREMONY DONE JUST FOR SHOW. Which is what many of you are saying baptism is.
I never said that baptism was just a nothing. It is a work of righteousness, but we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done, but by faith in Christ. Baptism is an important act of obedience that God expects us to obey, however, it's not that act of obedience that saves us but our faith in Christ (Acts 10:43-47).
 
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cleanse us on the inside, so the WASHING of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) is not water baptism. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done" but according to His mercy He saved us. Right after we read about water baptism in verses John 3:22-24, in verse 25, we read - An argument developed between some of John's disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the death of Christ. So baptism does not wash away sins literally, but ceremonially.

The Bible states otherwise. Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. *What happened to baptism?These Gentiles believed in Him, received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). In Acts 11:17, looking back to the event that took place in Acts 10, we read - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." Also see Acts 3:19; 15:8,9.

It sure sounded like you were going in that direction with your reasoning.Here are some interesting statements from the LCMS website about water baptism: - Frequently Asked Questions | Doctrine - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Q: Can you please clarify the Lutheran view of Baptism and its purpose? Does the child become a Christian when baptized?

A: Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone. The Bible tells us that such “faith comes by hearing” (Rom. 10:17). Jesus Himself commands Baptism and tells us that Baptism is water used together with the Word of God (Matt. 28:19-20). Because of this, we believe that Baptism is one of the miraculous means of grace (another is God’s Word as it is written or spoken), through which God creates and/or strengthens the gift of faith in a person’s heart (see Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Gal. 3:26-27; Rom. 6:1-4; Col. 2:11-12; 1 Cor. 12.13). Terms the Bible uses to talk about the beginning of faith include “conversion” and “regeneration.” Although we do not claim to understand fully how this happens, we believe that when an infant is baptized God creates faith in the heart of that infant. We believe this because the Bible says that infants can believe (Matt. 18:6) and that new birth (regeneration) happens in Baptism (John 3:5-7; Titus 3:5-6). The infant’s faith cannot yet, of course, be verbally expressed or articulated by the child, yet it is real and present all the same (see e.g., Acts 2:38-39; Luke 1:15; 2 Tim. 3:15). The faith of the infant, like the faith of adults, also needs to be fed and nurtured by God’s Word (Matt. 28:18-20), or it will die.

Lutherans do not believe that only those baptized as infants receive faith. Faith can also be created in a person's heart by the power of the Holy Spirit working through God's (written or spoken) Word. Baptism should then soon follow conversion (cf. Acts 8:37) for the purpose of confirming and strengthening faith in accordance with God's command and promise. Depending on the situation, therefore, Lutherans baptize people of all ages from infancy to adulthood.

The LCMS does not believe that Baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation. All true believers in the Old Testament era were saved without baptism. Mark 16:16 implies that it is not the absence of Baptism that condemns a person but the absence of faith, and there are clearly other ways of coming to faith by the power of the Holy Spirit (reading or hearing the Word of God). Still, Baptism dare not be despised or willfully neglected, since it is explicitly commanded by God and has His precious promises attached to it. It is not a mere “ritual” or “symbol,” but a powerful means of grace by which God grants faith and the forgiveness of sins.

It sounds like the LCMS believes in baptizing infants, which is unscriptural. An infant is not old enough to repent and believe the gospel. One minute the LCMS church says that we are "saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone" and that we do not believe that "baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation" but then turns around and says that "baptism is a powerful means of grace by which God grants faith and the forgiveness of sins." Sounds like a mixed message to me. :eek:

Yes, as Greek scholar Daniel Wallace said -Water baptism is not a cause of salvation, but a PICTURE; and as such it serves both as a public acknowledgment (by those present) and a public confession (by the convert) that one has been Spirit baptized. As Greek scholar AT Robertson said - a symbol is not the reality, but the PICTURE of the reality. Baptism is the PICTURE, pointing to the death of Christ by which sins are actually washed away.

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he (he has not been water baptized? NO) has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *What happened to baptism?

So you connect LIVING WATER (John 4:10,14; 7:38) with the Holy Spirit and not water baptism? That's a start. :)

The multiple passages of scripture that I have shared with you have not been cherry picked, but the verses on baptism have.

This is what people do when they set out to prove that salvation is by "water and works." They isolate passages TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT and do not harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion from the whole council of God on the subject.

I never said that baptism was just a nothing. It is a work of righteousness, but we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done, but by faith in Christ. Baptism is an important act of obedience that God expects us to obey, however, it's not that act of obedience that saves us but our faith in Christ (Acts 10:43-47).
Being Raised in the Lutheran Sect or division, baptized as an infant, confirmed as a teenager, SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD, Feb. 1994,------> came back testified of His Grace in Saving me.. total rejection of the Witness of Christ in my life.. INSTEAD.. in my face.. you were saved when you were an infant, sealed with the sign of the cross with water.. NOOOOOOO... TOLD them it had nothing to do with they did as far as 'religion'. today they still reject the Born Again Witness of Christ in my life.. they 'trashed' His Saving Grace, doesnt suprise me as their background is in pharmaceuticals and the use of Behavior control meds during Daniels 70th week for 'imaging'. will become the NORM.. their foundation is in the Works of the flesh.. holding out a different Jesus, yet whilst persecuting the children of Promise, those Born Genuinely of the Spirit.. a sword in my family, because of Christ, yep. just what He said would happen. indeed!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,430
13,361
113
58
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Well, let's take a look at this line of reasoning and see if it hold up. Looking at all of the conversion examples in Acts we see that belief is mentioned in 10 of those examples and repentance is mentioned in 4 of those examples. Confession is only mentioned in three of them and baptism is mentioned in nine. If determination is based on whether or not an element is mentioned, then this pattern would suggest that none of them are requisite for salvation because there is not one passage of scripture where all of them appear.
All of them don't need to appear together to figure out what is necessary for salvation. Those who hold to the fourfold formula of "Faith + Repentance + Confession + Baptism" suppose that each passage which states what is needed for salvation leaves out certain necessary elements, and that we must pool all such statements together, if we wish to find out what God truly requires for salvation. However, this approach does not really accept any of the statements which God has made about salvation through belief/faith. Whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins/heart purified by faith. No further requirements afterwards. The Bible sometimes only mentions repentance as a condition for salvation. One example of this would be Luke 13:3, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." See also Luke 24:47 and Acts 17:30. A few times both repent and belief/faith are mentioned in the same verse (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). There are many, many verses which only mention belief/faith as the condition for salvation (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-30; 4:5; Ephesians 2:8 etc..). Repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ. Two sides to the same experience. When only repentance is mentioned in receiving salvation, faith is implied or assumed. When only faith is mentioned in receiving salvation, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one you must have the other. If you believe, then you already repented in the process of coming to faith in Christ and are saved. Not so with baptism. You can repent and believe the gospel BUT NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED. Confession is an expression of saving faith, not an additional requirement after faith to become saved. It's not believe today then finally confess next week and are finally saved next week. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. ​This is how we harmonize Scripture with Scripture.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,430
13,361
113
58
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

But if I go by your reasoning then do I have to obey God and Jesus to be saved? To obey Him is not in all of the passages either.
We obey God the Father and Jesus Christ (God the Son) when we choose to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes. Choosing to believe that gospel is the act of obedience that saves. There is a difference between the act of obedience which saves us and multiple acts of obedience (works) which follow saving faith in Christ.

Yet Jesus plainly says this here
Are you implying that we are saved by works?

John 14

[SUP]15[/SUP]“If you love me, keep my commands. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— [SUP]17 [/SUP]the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be
[SUP][c][/SUP] in you. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. [SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. [SUP]24[/SUP]Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“All this I have spoken while still with you. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. [SUP]29 [/SUP]I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, [SUP]31 [/SUP]but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
“Come now; let us leave.
You don't want to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages with PRESCRIPTIVE passages. "Those who have His commands and keeps them" - DESCRIPTIVE of a born again believer. "Those who do not love Christ and will not obey His teaching" - DESCRIPTIVE of a lost unbeliever.

In that Jesus very clearly says that loving Him and Obeying Him go hand in hand. Jesus even says it both ways both positively and negatively. And even in the gospels it is NOT in every single verse yet it is still there and we can't ignore it.
We love Him (demonstrative evidence) - we keep His commands (after we have been saved through faith) BECAUSE we are saved, not to become saved. We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cleanse us on the inside, so the WASHING of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) is not water baptism. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done" but according to His mercy He saved us. Right after we read about water baptism in verses John 3:22-24, in verse 25, we read - An argument developed between some of John's disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the death of Christ. So baptism does not wash away sins literally, but ceremonially.

Again where did I say that plain water in baptism that saves? Haven't I said that baptism is a picture of what IS TAKING place AS we are being baptized? It is and was a picture of us SUBMITTING to Jesus death. It is a picture of us going UNDER the SHED water of Jesus death.



The Bible states otherwise. Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. *What happened to baptism?These Gentiles believed in Him, received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). In Acts 11:17, looking back to the event that took place in Acts 10, we read - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." Also see Acts 3:19; 15:8,9.
Be very careful using Acts 10 to DISPROVE the need for baptism. Acts10 was a SIGN to the Jews that the gentiles would be grafted in without CIRCUMCISION. Remember they already knew the Mosaic law,under the old covenant NO GENTILE could be a partaker of the covenant WITHOUT CIRCUMCISION,which also included sacrifices and the washings. Once Peter saw and heard those things he knew what it meant. Remember Peter says this

Acts 10

Then Peter said, [SUP]47 [/SUP]“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” [SUP]48 [/SUP]So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Why would any one be able to stand in the way of them being baptized unless there IS something that stand in the way,which was CIRCUMCISION.

It sure sounded like you were going in that direction with your reasoning.Here are some interesting statements from the LCMS website about water baptism: -
Frequently Asked Questions | Doctrine - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Q: Can you please clarify the Lutheran view of Baptism and its purpose? Does the child become a Christian when baptized?

A: Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone. The Bible tells us that such “faith comes by hearing” (Rom. 10:17). Jesus Himself commands Baptism and tells us that Baptism is water used together with the Word of God (Matt. 28:19-20). Because of this, we believe that Baptism is one of the miraculous means of grace (another is God’s Word as it is written or spoken), through which God creates and/or strengthens the gift of faith in a person’s heart (see Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Gal. 3:26-27; Rom. 6:1-4; Col. 2:11-12; 1 Cor. 12.13). Terms the Bible uses to talk about the beginning of faith include “conversion” and “regeneration.” Although we do not claim to understand fully how this happens, we believe that when an infant is baptized God creates faith in the heart of that infant. We believe this because the Bible says that infants can believe (Matt. 18:6) and that new birth (regeneration) happens in Baptism (John 3:5-7; Titus 3:5-6). The infant’s faith cannot yet, of course, be verbally expressed or articulated by the child, yet it is real and present all the same (see e.g., Acts 2:38-39; Luke 1:15; 2 Tim. 3:15). The faith of the infant, like the faith of adults, also needs to be fed and nurtured by God’s Word (Matt. 28:18-20), or it will die.

Lutherans do not believe that only those baptized as infants receive faith. Faith can also be created in a person's heart by the power of the Holy Spirit working through God's (written or spoken) Word. Baptism should then soon follow conversion (cf. Acts 8:37) for the purpose of confirming and strengthening faith in accordance with God's command and promise. Depending on the situation, therefore, Lutherans baptize people of all ages from infancy to adulthood.

The LCMS does not believe that Baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation. All true believers in the Old Testament era were saved without baptism. Mark 16:16 implies that it is not the absence of Baptism that condemns a person but the absence of faith, and there are clearly other ways of coming to faith by the power of the Holy Spirit (reading or hearing the Word of God). Still, Baptism dare not be despised or willfully neglected, since it is explicitly commanded by God and has His precious promises attached to it. It is not a mere “ritual” or “symbol,” but a powerful means of grace by which God grants faith and the forgiveness of sins.

It sounds like the LCMS believes in baptizing infants, which is unscriptural. An infant is not old enough to repent and believe the gospel. One minute the LCMS church says that we are "saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone" and that we do not believe that "baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation" but then turns around and says that "baptism is a powerful means of grace by which God grants faith and the forgiveness of sins." Sounds like a mixed message to me. :eek:

You can not find one place in the OT where anyone was saved WITHOUT obeying.

Where does scripture say that a little one CAN NOT BELIEVE?

Didn't Jesus say this

Mark 9

[SUP]42[/SUP]“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

Jesus is VERY clear that little ones can believe in Him.



Yes, as Greek scholar Daniel Wallace said -Water baptism is not a cause of salvation, but a PICTURE; and as such it serves both as a public acknowledgment (by those present) and a public confession (by the convert) that one has been Spirit baptized. As Greek scholar AT Robertson said - a symbol is not the reality, but the PICTURE of the reality. Baptism is the PICTURE, pointing to the death of Christ by which sins are actually washed away.

The disagreement is NOT on the fact that it does happen the disagreement is on THE WHEN it happens.



The multiple passages of scripture that I have shared with you have not been cherry picked, but the verses on baptism have.

This is what people do when they set out to prove that salvation is by "water and works." They isolate passages TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT and do not harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion from the whole council of God on the subject.

I never said that baptism was just a nothing. It is a work of righteousness, but we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done, but by faith in Christ. Baptism is an important act of obedience that God expects us to obey, however, it's not that act of obedience that saves us but our faith in Christ (Acts 10:43-47).

I never said we are saved by our works. But you the ONLY place where you can find faith being PASSIVE is on HOW we are declared righteous. We are declared righteous BY FAITH and FAITH alone,but that faith IS NOT AND NEVER WILL be a PASSIVE FAITH. Only an active faith saves. Faith and works can only be separated so far and that is a VERY VERY narrow place. A faith that loves and obeys is what saves. No amount of head knowledge "faith" saves,it is not possible.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

We obey God the Father and Jesus Christ (God the Son) when we choose to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes. Choosing to believe that gospel is the act of obedience that saves. There is a difference between the act of obedience which saves us and multiple acts of obedience (works) which follow saving faith in Christ.

Are you implying that we are saved by works?

You don't want to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages with PRESCRIPTIVE passages. "Those who have His commands and keeps them" - DESCRIPTIVE of a born again believer. "Those who do not love Christ and will not obey His teaching" - DESCRIPTIVE of a lost unbeliever.

We love Him (demonstrative evidence) - we keep His commands (after we have been saved through faith) BECAUSE we are saved, not to become saved. We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
Again where did I say that we are saved BY OUR WORKS in and of themselves? Those works MUST be there as PART of an active living breathing faith,if they ARE NOT THERE can you say you are saved?
 
B

BradC

Guest
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Again where did I say that we are saved BY OUR WORKS in and of themselves? Those works MUST be there as PART of an active living breathing faith,if they ARE NOT THERE can you say you are saved?
I can see a believer who has grieved the Spirit through living in some form of sin not knowing for a time whether they are saved or not, but one who is not exhibiting works being called into question as to whether they are saved or not is a whole other matter? You have a church at Ephesus that was chided by the Lord to go back and do the first works because they had left their first love, but that had nothing to do with they were saved or not. He warned them that he would remove their candlestick in (Rev 2:5) if they did not repent and go back to their first love and do those works through a labor of love. Explain what an active living breathing faith looks like in the life of the believer that is filled with the Spirit?

If I have trusted Christ for the remission of my sins yet I become carnal through the flesh does that disqualify me from the salvation of God I received by grace through faith? Believers are rewarded for their works and if they have none then they will receive no reward. It does not mean that they are a tare (darnel) among the wheat but one who bore little fruit. There are some who start off strong and do much and later have been discouraged and go and do other things because they have left their first love. They need to be built up in their faith and in the love of God so they can turn back to their first love when God saved them by grace and flooded their soul with his love through the Spirit. Before we come to that place of writing someone off as 'they went out from us because they were not of us' make sure that you have done everything possible through the leading of the Spirit.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

I can see a believer who has grieved the Spirit through living in some form of sin not knowing for a time whether they are saved or not, but one who is not exhibiting works being called into question as to whether they are saved or not is a whole other matter? You have a church at Ephesus that was chided by the Lord to go back and do the first works because they had left their first love, but that had nothing to do with they were saved or not. He warned them that he would remove their candlestick in (Rev 2:5) if they did not repent and go back to their first love and do those works through a labor of love. Explain what an active living breathing faith looks like in the life of the believer that is filled with the Spirit?

If I have trusted Christ for the remission of my sins yet I become carnal through the flesh does that disqualify me from the salvation of God I received by grace through faith? Believers are rewarded for their works and if they have none then they will receive no reward. It does not mean that they are a tare (darnel) among the wheat but one who bore little fruit. There are some who start off strong and do much and later have been discouraged and go and do other things because they have left their first love. They need to be built up in their faith and in the love of God so they can turn back to their first love when God saved them by grace and flooded their soul with his love through the Spirit. Before we come to that place of writing someone off as 'they went out from us because they were not of us' make sure that you have done everything possible through the leading of the Spirit.
Of course I never said otherwise,I believe all those things are SIGN POSTS of what is happening to ones FAITH. Faith is either growing or DYING. There is no IN BETWEEN. I do not believe that salvation can be lost,but faith itself can DIE and one when GOES INTO unbelief they CUT themselves off from salvation. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF.

How do those that say we go in and out of salvation deal with the church at Corinth. 1 Corinthians is the longest rebuke in the entire Bible,yet not once does Paul make the claim they are not saved. 4 times in the first 4 chapters Paul calls them BROTHERS AND SISTERS,while he is rebuking them. How can that be if they are NOT SAVED,how can Paul even call them brothers and sisters?
:rolleyes:
 
B

BradC

Guest
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Explain how you understand the following passage in the context for which it is written... Is it by the same token of 'unbelief' that the disciples were not able to cure the man's son?

Mt 17:14-21

14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

What about this passage concerning Thomas...

John 20:24-31

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
W

weakness

Guest
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins," is there any reason to believe that any other cases of water baptism were practiced for any other reason

For Example

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Act 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Act 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 9:17-18 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

????? [If so, where are the scriptures that indicate it?][/QUOTES I think it says something about the people being baptized unto Moses in the Red Sea and in the cloud. But with many of them God was not well pleased and were over throne in the wilderness. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they were written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Explain how you understand the following passage in the context for which it is written... Is it by the same token of 'unbelief' that the disciples were not able to cure the man's son?

Mt 17:14-21

14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

What about this passage concerning Thomas...

John 20:24-31

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
There are different types of UNBELIEF. What was the disciples unbelief? Did they ever stop believing Jesus was the Messiah,the Son of the Living God? Or was that unbelief based on something else? Was Thomas's unbelief because he didn't believe Jesus rose from the dead or was it because he no longer believed Jesus is the Messiah? That is a HUGE distinction that MUST be made.
 
W

weakness

Guest
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Baptism=immersed
Have you been immersed into Christ or into water?
Most of the Scriptures you cite are talking of being placed (immersed) into Christ.
But get wet if you must.[/QUOTE/ Why the question? Comes from where in your mind?
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Explain how you understand the following passage in the context for which it is written... Is it by the same token of 'unbelief' that the disciples were not able to cure the man's son?

Mt 17:14-21

14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

What about this passage concerning Thomas...

John 20:24-31

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Let's also take another example. If one does NOT believe in the virgin birth,BUT still believes that Jesus of Nazareth,is the Christ,the Son of God ,who came in the flesh,died on a cross and rose again on the third day is that person SAVED? They are in UNBELIEF on a point,but is that point salvic?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

I did read what you,I disagree with what you say.


No, You do not disagree with what I say, but what the word of God says.

1. Jesus said, IF I DO NOT WASH YOU
2. Jesus said whoever is cleansed has been cleansed FOREVER
3. HE cleanses her (the church) by the word (spiritual water)
4. Our spiritual circumcision is done by the hand of God through spirit baptism. The HS is the one who cleanses.
5. You were washed BY THE SPIRIT of our God
6. We were saved (past tense) by Gods mercy, not through any physical works of righteousness. By the washing and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

it is the work of God which washes us, not the physical act of man. thus you deny what God said



The problem that you have is that you EQUATE OBEDIENCE to what God told us to do WITH SAVING ONES SELF.

No. Thats your problem. Your saying we are only saved by a physical act. not me.


Why do you have a problem with God saying He does when we do out of faith? If it was just a man made thing then WHY did the disciples make such a point of BAPTIZING? If it NOTHING but a DEAD RITUAL what was the point of EVEN doing it? Why would Jesus EVER tell them to baptize if God DOES NOTHING in it at all? Because that is what you bring it down to,a DEAD,LIFELESS,WORTHLESS Ritual that DOES NOTHING. Really? Does that make any sense whatsoever?
why? because your faith is in the physical act you perform and not God himself. but for some reason you can not see this.



And if it a DEAD,LIFELESS,USELESS RITUAL why did you even get baptized? And if it was just to go before the public to annouce that you are saying you are a Christian,wouldn't there a better way then using all that water in a desert,where water is in short to begin with?
for the same reason I go to church, give to the poor. study my word, disciple others, and do everything else God asked me to do. He said do it, I do not question why, I just do it.

but it no more saved me than any of those other acts of faith.
 
B

BradC

Guest
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Let's also take another example. If one does NOT believe in the virgin birth,BUT still believes that Jesus of Nazareth,is the Christ,the Son of God ,who came in the flesh,died on a cross and rose again on the third day is that person SAVED? They are in UNBELIEF on a point,but is that point salvic?
Are you prepared to answer that question? This is my answer and God's knows what is in both of our hearts. If they believe that Christ did not come through a virgin birth then they do not believe the scriptures and the Christ they believe in is someone other than the incarnate Son of God. There would be leaven in their belief as to the Son of God sent by the Father and he would only be another man born of a woman. The virgin birth is vital to the salvation God has provided to sinful through his only begotten Son and to believe otherwise is to believe in another Christ.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Are you prepared to answer that question? This is my answer and God's knows what is in both of our hearts. If they believe that Christ did not come through a virgin birth then they do not believe the scriptures and the Christ they believe in is someone other than the incarnate Son of God. There would be leaven in their belief as to the Son of God sent by the Father and he would only be another man born of a woman. The virgin birth is vital to the salvation God has provided to sinful through his only begotten Son and to believe otherwise is to believe in another Christ.
Where does scripture ever say that is a salvic issue? I do agree if one does not believe in the virgin birth it can be in an in for Satan to come against their faith.
 
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

there is something deeper. it might not come out for days, weeks, months or even years if ever.

when someone denies christ, they won't readily admit it if they think they will lose someone's approval and

if that is important to them.

i.e. to them
it doesn't matter what GOD'S WORD says, what IS WRITTEN --- because (somewhere 'hidden'/'deeper' they have some kind of attachment or need other than TRUTH, instead of TRUTH, instead of GOD'S WORD)

IF GOD softens their heart, and shows mercy to them, they then accept JESUS and HIS WORD in TRUTH.

otherwise, whatever is 'hidden', they cannot overcome. whatever they love that has kept them from

accepting GOD'S WORD as TRUTH, they cannot escape. GOD'S MERCY is needed for everyone who is

saved --- no man is exempt.... sheer grace, sheer grace, even just to desire to seek HIM, to believe.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,430
13,361
113
58
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Again where did I say that plain water in baptism that saves? Haven't I said that baptism is a picture of what IS TAKING place AS we are being baptized? It is and was a picture of us SUBMITTING to Jesus death. It is a picture of us going UNDER the SHED water of Jesus death.
You call baptism a picture but you are also saying that we are NOT saved UNTIL we are water baptized - "dipped or condemned." The LCMS does not believe that baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation (which I agree with) and that Mark 16:16 implies it is not the absence of baptism that condemns a person but the absence of faith (which I also agree with). Do you agree with your church of disagree?

Be very careful using Acts 10 to DISPROVE the need for baptism. Acts10 was a SIGN to the Jews that the gentiles would be grafted in without CIRCUMCISION. Remember they already knew the Mosaic law,under the old covenant NO GENTILE could be a partaker of the covenant WITHOUT CIRCUMCISION,which also included sacrifices and the washings. Once Peter saw and heard those things he knew what it meant. Remember Peter says this

Acts 10

Then Peter said, [SUP]47 [/SUP]“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” [SUP]48 [/SUP]So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Why would any one be able to stand in the way of them being baptized unless there IS something that stand in the way,which was CIRCUMCISION.
Be careful that you don't disregard the fact that these Gentiles believed and received the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE water baptism, which clearly shows they were saved BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-46). Lost unbelievers do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. Acts 11:17 says they received the gift of the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and this was BEFORE baptism. What did Paul say in Acts 16:31? Get water baptized and you will be saved or believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved?

You can not find one place in the OT where anyone was saved WITHOUT obeying.
Was Abraham saved when he believed the Lord in Genesis 15:6 and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness or not until later, after he obeyed God many years later in Genesis 22? What did Paul say in Romans 4:2-3.

Where does scripture say that a little one CAN NOT BELIEVE?

Didn't Jesus say this

Mark 9

[SUP]42[/SUP]“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

Jesus is VERY clear that little ones can believe in Him.
Children can believe but not infants. Show me just one example of "infant" baptism in the Bible.

The disagreement is NOT on the fact that it does happen the disagreement is on THE WHEN it happens.
Faith is not baptism and faith precedes baptism and we are saved through faith. That's when salvation happens.

I never said we are saved by our works.
You are saying that we are saved by the work of baptism.

But you the ONLY place where you can find faith being PASSIVE is on HOW we are declared righteous. We are declared righteous BY FAITH and FAITH alone,
Amen! Faith IN CHRIST alone does not equate to faith and baptism.

but that faith IS NOT AND NEVER WILL be a PASSIVE FAITH.
Amen! Faith without works is dead.

Only an active faith saves.
Only saving faith is active. Faith is active BECAUSE we have been saved and not to become saved by works. Saved through faith and created in Christ Jesus FIRST then unto good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Faith and works can only be separated so far and that is a VERY VERY narrow place. A faith that loves and obeys is what saves.
Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates that there is no root. Faith in Christ is what saves and this kind of faith loves and obeys Christ. We don't want to put the cart before the horse.

No amount of head knowledge "faith" saves, it is not possible.
We don't simply believe in our (head) that God raised Him from the dead, we believe in our HEART (Romans 10:9). That is a living trust and not merely head knowledge. It sounds to me like you are trying to have your cake and eat it too by implying, "we are saved not by works but we must do good works in order to become saved." That is the mixed message that I am hearing from you.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,430
13,361
113
58
Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Again where did I say that we are saved BY OUR WORKS in and of themselves?
In and of themselves? So are we saved through faith IN CHRIST ALONE or by faith AND WORKS? You can't have it both ways.

Those works MUST be there as PART of an active living breathing faith, if they ARE NOT THERE can you say you are saved?
Those works MUST be there in order to demonstrate that you have an acting breathing faith and are already saved or MUST be there in order to become saved? Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of a living faith, but they are not the essence of faith and they are not the means of our salvation. Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet genuine saving faith that is alive in Christ and is not dead is evidenced by good works. Agree?