So many anti charismatic smear jobs allowed?

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NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
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...Whether you are Wesleyan, Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Catholic, or the 20 thousand other Denominations, have you ever witnessed a person run in your Church?

Not fall down, not speak in Tongues, not raise their hands, not get super excited, but just what appeared for no reason just get out of their pew and run the aisles?
No, have you?
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Yes, my senior pastor, who is also acts 2 dispy, have the same doctrine as you, that A&S were never saved in the first place.

That is a very popular way to hold the doctrine that the grace dispensation began at Acts 2, and yet reconcile the events in Acts 5.

Well I reread that passage of Scripture before answering and those 2 just pop up from out of nowhere onto the scene. They have no background with the newly established church and they were all about deceiving Peter. So I think it's easy to conclude they never were saved to begin with.
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
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I am a charismatic member of Jesuses body.
And yet I am fair game.
Attacking the body of christ is demonic.

Actual believers with a green light to attack other believers for their beliefs.

End times madness
And this forum incubates it.
Did you mean Jesus' body? Or Janneses body?

In all seriousness, the concern most of us who aren't Pentecostals have is the fake miracle/healings/etc and the way that belief in them innoculates people against believing the gospel, accepting true miracles, and causes people to fall away from the faith.

There are plenty of real miracles in this world from healings that occur without human intervention to the descent of the holy fire at Jesus' tomb every Pentecost to the reversal of the Jordan's flow every epiphany to bother with fake ones... And these are all exclusively to God's glory not a TV preachers bank account or ministry.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Did you mean Jesus' body? Or Janneses body?

In all seriousness, the concern most of us who aren't Pentecostals have is the fake miracle/healings/etc and the way that belief in them innoculates people against believing the gospel, accepting true miracles, and causes people to fall away from the faith.

There are plenty of real miracles in this world from healings that occur without human intervention to the descent of the holy fire at Jesus' tomb every Pentecost to the reversal of the Jordan's flow every epiphany to bother with fake ones... And these are all exclusively to God's glory not a TV preachers bank account or ministry.
LOL.
Tell it to moses,jesus,paul,and stephen. Tell them to move over for your passive miracles.

Look at all the fake salvation in the baptist community. Wow,now there is a REAL area of concern huh?
But hey,no foul huh?

There are plenty of real miracles in this world from healings that occur without human intervention
Show me one in the bible. And then compare to the ones outside your dreaded humans that God used.
All the ones Jesus,Paul,and peter did were not some passive naturally occurring miracles like the ones you cherry pick.

and the way that belief in them innoculates people against believing the gospel, accepting true miracles, and causes people to fall away from the faith.
Your obsession with fake miracles inoculates you from the real miracles i see.
That is the difference. You are "counterfeit centered"
So that has become your prism and false yardstick.
You begin in a lie that all miracles are fake.
Your conjecture is your false yardstick.

Did you mean Jesus' body? Or Janneses body?
I am assuming you are invoking the Egyptian magicians? Amazing that you lean to and invoke the devil first and God second.
Actually it is normal, for your prism is backwards

My thread is specifically addressing your vile accusations against myself and others.

You can not possibly refute the biblical stand and faith of believers,so you go personal.
You attack integrity and honesty and sincerity.
Your doctrine is bogus as are your lies about the brethren.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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My thread is specifically addressing your vile accusations against myself and others.

You can not possibly refute the biblical stand and faith of believers,so you go personal.
You attack integrity and honesty and sincerity.
Your doctrine is bogus as are your lies about the brethren.
Are you able to tell me what you mean by half a gospel?

You make numerous bold assertions but support none of them with scripture.

Am I to believe just because you are sincere and honest?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Several really, what denominations specifically?
I was wondering that, myself. I mean, I must be going to the wrong churches.... I need to find one that comes complete with a "floor show"....
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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How could someone in the old testament times hear "the gospel" when Jesus had not even been born, let alone died and resurrected?
According to the epistle to the Hebrews the Israelites did hear the Gospel but failed to believe. And the Gospel was also preached to Abraham.

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them [the Israelites, see chapter 3]: but the Word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. (Hebrews 4:1,2)

GALATIANS 3
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[Note: this is a reference to Christ. Also note that even though it was God who said that to Abraham, the Holy Spirit identifies Scripture as divine, and it is Scripture which said that to Abraham. Note also that Abraham received a vision of the New Jerusalem, since he looked for a city which has foundations, whose Builder and Maker is God]
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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I do not believe you are being targeted personally. But it is fair game to target false teachings. I believe there are several such teachings being promoted within the Charismatic groups.

Demons are attacking the Body of Christ through men such as Benny Hinn etc. But to expose false teachings is an act of love to protect the Body of Christ.

Let's take the example of "being slain in the Spirit". There is no such phenomenon within Scripture. Christ and the apostles always raised up the ones whom they healed, and never caused them to fall down backwards, crashing to the ground.
Daniel 10:9 KJV
Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.

That's just one occurance. Think of when Jesus simply answered "I Am" when they came to take him and said they were seeking Jesus. They all fell to the ground backward. Or when the angels came and opened the tomb, or when the spirit spake to Saul/Paul what happened to those around. Or the spirit falling on King Saul's servants and eventually Saul himself, causing them to prophesy as they drew near to Samuel who was serving God.

These things aren't talked about often by those who haven't had the power of God show up while they were worshipping. But for those who have, it's a memorable event.

There is something that happens throughout scripture and continues today when an individual or group is seeking the Lord's face diligently and the power of God shows up, and it can result in what some call being slain in the spirit.

When it's God that is doing it, no one gets hurt, and God (not man) is in control. It's just "weird" because it's God (not man's flesh) in control.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Several really, what denominations specifically?

Churches that are predominantly African American and I've seen Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, and other especially when they get together between churches.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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"Historically African-American Christian denominations"

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I have not visited many, but the ones I have they really know how to worship and praise God. Which I find amazing considering what White people have done to them and many of the current struggles they face even today. These people don't let foolishness get in their way when it comes to being Thankful to Almighty God!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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...seeking the Lord's face diligently...
Quite different from going to one of those meetings where the preaching is smacking people on their foreheads. You will not find that in the Bible.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Well I reread that passage of Scripture before answering and those 2 just pop up from out of nowhere onto the scene. They have no background with the newly established church and they were all about deceiving Peter. So I think it's easy to conclude they never were saved to begin with.
So if they were never saved to begin with, and the rest of the believers knew that, why would they fear greatly when the news of them being killed by God spread around? (acts 5:11)

Don't they know they have the imputed righteousness of Christ in them?
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Quite different from going to one of those meetings where the preaching is smacking people on their foreheads. You will not find that in the Bible.
What do you suppose it looked like in Acts 19 when each person Paul laid hands on started speaking in tongues WHEN he laid hands on them? (And some started prophesying)
Or when the whole group in the upper room started speaking in tongues as the Holy Ghost filled the room.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Apr 5, 2020
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So if they were never saved to begin with, and the rest of the believers knew that, why would they fear greatly when the news of them being killed by God spread around? (acts 5:11)

Don't they know they have the imputed righteousness of Christ in them?

I believe God empowered Peter as he was going forward with the new Church. Yes, the Prophets of old spoke about the Holy Spirit, but no one knew what that literally was all about. Not only did it give Peter Discernment to know they were deceiving him, but it allowed an outward sign that you cannot mess with the unbeliever. But it spread to all (Believers and unbelievers) and that was God sole intent.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I believe God empowered Peter as he was going forward with the new Church. Yes, the Prophets of old spoke about the Holy Spirit, but no one knew what that literally was all about. Not only did it give Peter Discernment to know they were deceiving him, but it allowed an outward sign that you cannot mess with the unbeliever. But it spread to all (Believers and unbelievers) and that was God sole intent.
The ascended Christ did give the 12 the power to either forgive sins or retain them, in a verse in John that only the Catholic Church regularly preach on (John 20:23) but the rest of us usually ignore. I believe Peter used that for A &S.

I hope from this discussion, you can understand how it is far from "easy to conclude they never were saved to begin with." People who hold that the grace dispensation began at Pentecost have to do plenty of "reading into the scripture" to reconcile what happened in Acts 5.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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"Historically African-American Christian denominations"

A
B
C
F
J
L
M
N
O
P
R
S
U
Τ







I have not visited many, but the ones I have they really know how to worship and praise God. Which I find amazing considering what White people have done to them and many of the current struggles they face even today. These people don't let foolishness get in their way when it comes to being Thankful to Almighty God!
Years ago I used to go to black churches to get my "hug fix".
You ain't living till you get picked up of the ground and swung back and forth by a huge Holy Ghost black woman.
What a Holy Spirit rush!!!
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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I believe God empowered Peter as he was going forward with the new Church. Yes, the Prophets of old spoke about the Holy Spirit, but no one knew what that literally was all about. Not only did it give Peter Discernment to know they were deceiving him, but it allowed an outward sign that you cannot mess with the unbeliever. But it spread to all (Believers and unbelievers) and that was God sole intent.
Yes and Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit.
The nt epistles were written by Holy Spirit baptized men to other Holy Spirit baptized men.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Years ago I used to go to black churches to get my "hug fix".
You ain't living till you get picked up of the ground and swung back and forth by a huge Holy Ghost black woman.
What a Holy Spirit rush!!!
Which Spirit is the question. And you are wondering that anticharismatics exists.