So many anti charismatic smear jobs allowed?

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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,272
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To claim that God said something when he, in fact, did not, is BLASPHEMY.

And, God forbid that anyone something in God's name that was not true.

If he does this, he is BLASPHEMING.
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Blasphemy is speaking evil of/about someone. Like saying "God is a...[bad name]".

If someone speaks something that is untrue, they are probably guilty of lying or at least being wrong, but not necessarily of blasphemy.

If someone speaks something in the name of the Lord that God did not say, that person might be guilty of false prophecy but again, not necessarily of blasphemy. (Unless during their statements they something like "God is bad".)

Blasphemy is a specific type of innappropriate speech.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
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I have no idea why Elisha chose not to mention that to him, maybe all Naaman wanted was to be healed of his leprosy? You can ask him in heaven after the rapture.

I did not say Jews were saved by keeping the law alone. I am saying, before the revelation of the mystery, faith in God was not enough to be saved. As James always reminded them, faith without works is dead.

It was Faith in God + Keeping the Law. No Jews during the OT could be saved by faith alone. Faith alone apart from works was only revealed to Paul by the ascended Christ, for the body of Christ.
Jesus confirms his word.
He is happy to do so.
When I hear a word from God I go ahead and test it myself.
There are three or four major ways God speaks to those belonging to him.
Direct voice
Bible
Other people
Pictures....images.

I know of and operate in all three. Amazing how accurate that dynamic is.

Actually a 5th is "unction"
That is a nudge or can be a bad feeling.
What you understand about " direct voice" A loud speaking ore more like a inner thought?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
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There was no contradiction with scripture in what I said. In actuality, I suggest that the portions of scripture you reference actually help prove the point. Consider the truth of the following statement:

If a person who has the Holy Ghost automatically recognizes truth from error,,, there would be no need to explain methods for testing spirits.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Discerning the Spirit, is a Gift from the Holy Spirit which needs no Methods. Thats correct!
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,711
1,917
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Blasphemy is speaking evil of/about someone. Like saying "God is a...[bad name]".

If someone speaks something that is untrue, they are probably guilty of lying or at least being wrong, but not necessarily of blasphemy.

If someone speaks something in the name of the Lord that God did not say, that person might be guilty of false prophecy but again, not necessarily of blasphemy. (Unless during their statements they something like "God is bad".)

Blasphemy is a specific type of innappropriate speech.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
It is giving occasion for the enemies of God to blaspheme. Unbelievers see and hear these claims and it gives them occasion to ridicule Christianity as a whole, when they do not see these things coming to pass.

And it is definitely taking God's name in vain. Vain means no good use. Saying things in God's name, with his authority, that are false is misusing his name.

If I said that God gave me a message for someone, and God did not in fact give me a message for someone, this is taking God's name in vain.

This phrase "taking God's name in vain" is not limited to using curse words. In fact, I would rather see someone use a curse word than claim they are speaking from God when, in fact, they are uttering the imaginations of their own evil hearts. At least people know that those cursing are not claiming something came from God when it did not.

If prophecies are false, and do not come to pass, then false prophets have attributed something false to God. Something God never said at all.

And, people who make a habit of this should be cast outside of the church, after appropriate levels of church discipline.

In reality, though, they will just go to another naive church who will listen to their nonsense. That is the reality in today's world. Church discipline doesn't really exist overall within the Church.

By the way, I think the major reason why they do it is because they want to be thought of as some great power of God, like Simon Magus of Acts 8. To me, though, they impress me not one bit. If someone utters a prophecy, claiming God gave them this prophecy, I am more likely to label them as a non-believer.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
I am a charismatic member of Jesus's body.
And yet I am fair game.
Attacking the body of christ is demonic.

Actual believers with a green light to attack other believers for their beliefs.

End times madness
And this forum incubates it.
If you feel like you are being personally attacked first say something to the person. Often discussion of minor doctrines is not meant as a personal attack and should not be taken as such. Iron sharpens Iron and with that there will be some sparks. Don't let the sparks turn into flaming. If the personal attack keeps going on by that person report it. It is unfortunate that there are some false teachings in today's' churches. The best way to deal with those teachings is practice sound exegesis.

Proverbs 27:17
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
1,347
803
113
If you want to read into the scripture, into the meeting between Elisha and Naaman, I cannot stop you from doing so.

Let me give you a scenario to illustrate what I was trying to say: Put yourself in the shoes of a Jew during the OT.

Can you ever tell the high priest, "I put my faith in God and I believe I am saved by that faith alone. I am not going to be circumcised nor am I going to circumcise my kids since Abraham was declared righteous by God even before he was circumcised in Genesis 15:6!"

One of the first thing the high priest will remind you is "Son, I am aware that you memorized Genesis 15:6 but do remember to read on to Genesis 17 when the Lord told Abraham
If the high priest was worth his salt, he would say "Faith without works is dead. You say you have faith in God - then show your faith by circumcision, for God commands us to be circumcised".

Then I would remind him that we Jews already circumcise our males at 8 days old, and thankfully, it only need be done once. ;)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
6,462
1,800
113
I am a charismatic member of Jesuses body.
And yet I am fair game.
Attacking the body of christ is demonic.

Actual believers with a green light to attack other believers for their beliefs.

End times madness
And this forum incubates it.
I think it is fair to question anything charismatic claim in the light of scriptures. I also thin it is ok for those here to feel it is not for today. They have an understanding that that see in the word of God. As do those who see it the other way. There is attacks and insults by both. That will never change :). Nor do I think those who disagree should be forced to agree. If one can not formulate and argument ( apologetics ) to refute ones position Biblically. Then move on.

You will always have dog whistle topics that attract those who disagree and come to that three with the agenda of causing disruption.

They think it is their way of protecting the faith against unbiblical, false teaching, and error. "It is their calling" yet God did not call them to it. You have to stay in the word of God. Ones experience and frankly testimony will never be accepted in this setting by those who see you or others as biblical error. That is why in this setting our only defense is the Word of god :) and prayer for them and you.

FYI try "ignore" tab next to their name when you move the mouse over it. It works wonders and makes them crazy :)
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,711
1,917
113
I think it is fair to question anything charismatic claim in the light of scriptures. I also thin it is ok for those here to feel it is not for today. They have an understanding that that see in the word of God. As do those who see it the other way. There is attacks and insults by both. That will never change :). Nor do I think those who disagree should be forced to agree. If one can not formulate and argument ( apologetics ) to refute ones position Biblically. Then move on.

You will always have dog whistle topics that attract those who disagree and come to that three with the agenda of causing disruption.

They think it is their way of protecting the faith against unbiblical, false teaching, and error. "It is their calling" yet God did not call them to it. You have to stay in the word of God. Ones experience and frankly testimony will never be accepted in this setting by those who see you or others as biblical error. That is why in this setting our only defense is the Word of god :) and prayer for them and you.

FYI try "ignore" tab next to their name when you move the mouse over it. It works wonders and makes them crazy :)
I agree on almost every comment. Maybe every comment.

It is hard to give anyone credibility in an internet forum. You don't know that person and whether they are a total loon. So, how could I believe anyone's claim, not knowing them in real life?

If a Christian friend that I knew for years, and knew his mental stability and truthfulness, told me he had a supernatural experience such as a vision or a healing, then I would be inclined to believe them. However, no one meets this criteria here.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,022
790
113
Blasphemy is speaking evil of/about someone. Like saying "God is a...[bad name]".

If someone speaks something that is untrue, they are probably guilty of lying or at least being wrong, but not necessarily of blasphemy.

If someone speaks something in the name of the Lord that God did not say, that person might be guilty of false prophecy but again, not necessarily of blasphemy. (Unless during their statements they something like "God is bad".)

Blasphemy is a specific type of innappropriate speech.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I don't know that what he described fits the category 'blasphemy.' Paul does write about bearing false witness of God in I Corinthians 15. If He had preached that God had done something that He had not, he would have been bearing false witness of God.

We should all be cognizant of that, the risk of saying, "God did this because" and inserting our own ideas there. Some people do that because they have been taught a certain theological perspective. You hear some preachers say, "It was not God's will that"... so and so "die." On the other hand, someone else might say that it was God's will that someone died or some bad thing happened, or comment on God's will in the Corona virus based on a theological framework that everything that happens is God's will.

I Thessalonians teaches that it is God's will to abstain from fornication. If two people fornicate, then one should be careful not to say it was God's will that it happened, but virtue of the fact that it happened.

If God reveals His will, we can know it. But we shouldn't presume to know God's will in a particular situation. And some theological frameworks about God's will do not line up with all scripture.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
113
I think it is fair to question anything charismatic claim in the light of scriptures. I also thin it is ok for those here to feel it is not for today. They have an understanding that that see in the word of God. As do those who see it the other way. There is attacks and insults by both. That will never change :). Nor do I think those who disagree should be forced to agree. If one can not formulate and argument ( apologetics ) to refute ones position Biblically. Then move on.

You will always have dog whistle topics that attract those who disagree and come to that three with the agenda of causing disruption.

They think it is their way of protecting the faith against unbiblical, false teaching, and error. "It is their calling" yet God did not call them to it. You have to stay in the word of God. Ones experience and frankly testimony will never be accepted in this setting by those who see you or others as biblical error. That is why in this setting our only defense is the Word of god :) and prayer for them and you.

FYI try "ignore" tab next to their name when you move the mouse over it. It works wonders and makes them crazy :)
So then, for my understanding CC is an Christian Site and not an Charismatic/ Pentecostal Site. You Post seems to say, that all which are not agree whith the charismatic/ pentecostal teaching, are wrong. And the best way to avoid them is to ignore them. If CC is an charismatic/pentecostal Site, then I apologize. I will not further give my coments.
Btw. The typical pentecost teaching about the baptism whith the Holy Spirit I can only find when I take the acts verses and put them out of the Context. What I cant find, is that this what you teach was taught in the NT to the believer,/churches. But this I would expect, because this seems to be the most important teaching since 1901.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
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I have no idea why Elisha chose not to mention that to him, maybe all Naaman wanted was to be healed of his leprosy? You can ask him in heaven after the rapture.

I did not say Jews were saved by keeping the law alone. I am saying, before the revelation of the mystery, faith in God was not enough to be saved. As James always reminded them, faith without works is dead.

It was Faith in God + Keeping the Law. No Jews during the OT could be saved by faith alone. Faith alone apart from works was only revealed to Paul by the ascended Christ, for the body of Christ.
No such thing as faith alone apart from works. Faith is a work .A person could no more separate them then could they separate of the body from the spirit of life of the body

By the faith of Christ that works in these bodies of death we are saved receiving the end of our salvation from the beginning. Knowing he who began the good work will finish it .

It is why its called salvation and not just a good start.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
So then, for my understanding CC is an Christian Site and not an Charismatic/ Pentecostal Site. You Post seems to say, that all which are not agree whith the charismatic/ pentecostal teaching, are wrong. And the best way to avoid them is to ignore them. If CC is an charismatic/pentecostal Site, then I apologize. I will not further give my coments.
Btw. The typical pentecost teaching about the baptism whith the Holy Spirit I can only find when I take the acts verses and put them out of the Context. What I cant find, is that this what you teach was taught in the NT to the believer,/churches. But this I would expect, because this seems to be the most important teaching since 1901.

From my experience the Pentcoster sign and wonder seekers or self edifiers refuse to look to the foundation of the teaching. (Isiah 28) And in their open rebellion still mock God by making a sound without understanding and falling back slain in the spirit .Yet for all that they still refuse to hear sola scriptuptura without the side shows added. as oral traditions of sinners .Make a noise and fall backward and wonder? Mockery?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,526
9,029
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From my experience the Pentcoster sign and wonder seekers or self edifiers refuse to look to the foundation of the teaching. (Isiah 28) And in their open rebellion still mock God by making a sound without understanding and falling back slain in the spirit .Yet for all that they still refuse to hear sola scriptuptura without the side shows added. as oral traditions of sinners .Make a noise and fall backward and wonder? Mockery?
From my experience I see that you don't put in the effort to understand the charismatic position, and instead mock it in ignorance.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,648
1,217
113
If the high priest was worth his salt, he would say "Faith without works is dead. You say you have faith in God - then show your faith by circumcision, for God commands us to be circumcised".

Then I would remind him that we Jews already circumcise our males at 8 days old, and thankfully, it only need be done once. ;)
Circumcision is just the central feature required in the Law of Moses. Once one is willing to be circumcised, one is expected to keep the rest of the Law. Yes, the Jews had to show their faith in God by keeping all the Law of Moses, since God commanded them to.

Thus, you are agreeing that faith + keeping the Law is required for salvation, before the cross. ;)