Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

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KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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Nobody can know for certain if another person has the Holy Spirit.
Please forgive my boldness in saying it this way, but why do people keep saying that?!

In all 4 of the examples recorded in the bible (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19) It was clearly stated at what point those people received (or had NOT yet received) the Holy Ghost. And in all 4 there was an attribute that was immediately observable to those around.

The parts of belief, repentance and intents of the heart might remain hidden until revealed by God or by the later behaviors and fruits of the individual, but the Holy Ghost comes 'bearing witness'.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Well I am glad that I know that I know that I know I have received the Spirit of the Lord.

I had people from a church, that I eventually left, tell me that unless I speak in tounges I dont have the Holy Spirit. I walked out of that conversation nicely but felt such offense I didnt want to go back to that church.

I prayed over that matter because it was important to me. If I didnt have the Holy Spirit then why was I turning my life around and yielding myself to God if it was all being done in vain. (I come from gang culture). So I needed to know and be sure that God was with me. So I studied on all the fuss about the speaking in tounges and whether or not this could be true that someone that doesnt speak in tounges does not have the Holy Spirit.

But God answered and showed that tounges is not the only sign one has received the Holy Spirit. But tounges is biblical but it is not the only evidence.

Paul wrote are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Are all workers of healing? Do all speak in other tounges? Are all interpeters of tounges?

Simple answer is No. He was speaking to the body of Christ. We are all part of the body and we all have a role in that body. No member is less than anyone. We all play a part in edifying the body. So some of us can speak in other tounges, this gift edifies the one speaking in tounges and strengthens the person in their Spirit. Being stronger allows you to be able to help others. However that may be, God will use that person.

For instance Paul spoke more tounges than anyone. And look how great he was used by God. How much revelation he recieved in doing so. Paul taught prophesying was more edifying for the church body and tounges for the person speaking in tounges.

Prophesying can encourage us depending on what God speaks thru the person, or it can give warnings to prevent things or things we need to change, and it can also give you a word of guidance on things to come.

Healing is very much needed. Interpreting I havent met an interpreter of tongues but if anyone knows what "ro bo ko so" means?? Id love to know. Thats the only words in tounges that God has given me to speak when I was praying by myself.
YES!!! :) I'm saying that because when I first received speaking in tongues, I only had one "sentence" and wondered if that really counted. Someone told me "Use what you've got and God will give you more." So I kept using/repeating the only piece I had until one day God got me distracted enough to where I quit paying so much attention to what was coming out of my mouth as I prayed. When I started paying attention again, what was coming out of my mouth was fluent tongues. That's when I realized, HEY, this really does flow from deep within, rather than from my brain. :)

BTW, I love your insights and musings about the thief on the cross. I had to pray about that guy for a while until God showed me some things I wasn't seeing.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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YES!!! :) I'm saying that because when I first received speaking in tongues, I only had one "sentence" and wondered if that really counted. Someone told me "Use what you've got and God will give you more." So I kept using/repeating the only piece I had until one day God got me distracted enough to where I quit paying so much attention to what was coming out of my mouth as I prayed. When I started paying attention again, what was coming out of my mouth was fluent tongues. That's when I realized, HEY, this really does flow from deep within, rather than from my brain. :)

BTW, I love your insights and musings about the thief on the cross. I had to pray about that guy for a while until God showed me some things I wasn't seeing.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Lol you had to pray about that guy. That sounds funny. Well that guy is a brother in Christ. He straight up told the other criminal to shut up. He was defending Jesus. He respected Jesus. That sounds like an honorable thing to do for a criminal. Well He is with Jesus now, so theres the moral of that story. Jesus came for the sinner. Why? Jesus said Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Because we didnt know any better.

Before we were saved what could we possibly have known of spiritual things? Jesus revealed these things to us. His Sheep hear His voice. We who are His sheep hear His calling. Thats how one knows if he has the Spirit of God. You understand the word of God. The Holy Spirit guides us to all understanding and teaches us. And now our eyes are opened Spiritually when we read the bible.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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Also does the Bible teach anyone was ever saved before receiving the Holy Ghost? References? Nobody was saved before Christ died, was buried, and rose again the third day for that’s the gospel and NOBODY believed it before Christ arose and appeared to his disciples.
"...in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." 1 Peter 3:20

That's one of the problems with the doctrine that promotes usage of the word "Saved" as if it has a singular, all-powerful meaning or application.

The truth is that the word saved has many applications. Some doctrines just overlook those others, and take great offense to anyone who uses it other than that singular way they have approved their followers to use it.

Sorry if that comes across sounding like some sort of a condemnation or slam.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Lol you had to pray about that guy. That sounds funny. Well that guy is a brother in Christ. He straight up told the other criminal to shut up. He was defending Jesus. He respected Jesus. That sounds like an honorable thing to do for a criminal. Well He is with Jesus now, so theres the moral of that story. Jesus came for the sinner. Why? Jesus said Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Because we didnt know any better.
Yeah :) I had to pray about him, not because I was mad at him or anything, but because I really wanted to know if he died in the new covenant, or the old. But I think I'd better go get some sleep rather than explaining the answer.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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"...in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." 1 Peter 3:20

That's one of the problems with the doctrine that promotes usage of the word "Saved" as if it has a singular, all-powerful meaning or application.

The truth is that the word saved has many applications. Some doctrines just overlook those others, and take great offense to anyone who uses it other than that singular way they have approved their followers to use it.

Sorry if that comes across sounding like some sort of a condemnation or slam.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Allow me to rephrase then please, where in scripture is anyone born again without receiving the promise of the Holy Ghost to seal them? According to John 3 we must be born again/ born of the Spirit.
 
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Yea I was just offering my thoughts on youtube about the theif on the cross. He hadnt yet recieved the Holy Spirit, since not even the apostles recieved it yet. And it seems that Jesus told the theif he would be in paradise.

The theif believed in Jesus. He knew Jesus wasnt some ordinary man, he believed Jesus was who He claimed to be if we consider "Remember me in your kingdom". (Sorry im just paraphrasing from memory.)

So we have the part of believing. Now repentance must have started long ago when he got caught and was imprisoned and sentenced to die by crucifixion! Some will repent having suffered less than this. Trust me ive been in jails and people cant handle a single night at time. Much less crucifixion! Imagine that!

So the theif long repented for his mistake and was on the cross paying for his sin. So the thief believed and had a repented heart. It was counted for him as salvation if we consider what Jesus told him. We are not saved by works. That theif is in Heaven. Jesus is not a liar.

And in Matthew 27 we see the graves were open and those saints that were asleep rose from the grave. Did they all have the Holy Spirit? Their faith was accounted them also it seems. And they rose with Christ. Just bringing my thoughts on the matter.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept

9:16-18 KJV
[16] For where a testament is , there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. [18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


The thief was still under the Old Testament until AFTER Christ died!

Hebrews 9:16-18 KJV
[16] For where a testament is , there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. [18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
 
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Thats the point im making how do we know who is saved or not?
You can’t. But you better know if you are or not right? or do you want to live your life not knowing. And thus living in fear all your life (or denying your in fear)

I just do not get it!

Revolving ourselves around the doctrine of being saved is just futile. It doesnt serve any purpose to anyone in these threads. Whats the significance of whether or not a person is saved? Zero purpose. No one knows who is saved or not regardless of what doctrine denomination or otherwise.
Really? So if a person is not saved, it has no relevance at all?? Lol I praise God the people who brought me to christ did not think that.

We stand on our faith that Jesus will call us His children on the day we kneel before the Lord and be judged. Were all going to see that day. Im not anyones judge as to who is saved or not and neither is anyone else on here. We can only know them by their fruits those who call themselves children of God. Dont let people decieve you. Test their spirit if what they say and do line up with the word of God. Do they take correction or do they carry pride. Its easy to test what a person is made of, and not just take what they claim to be. Faith holds strong under any test. Faith is proven and can be measured. I will leave with this scripture. God bless.
1. If your not saved, You have no faith
2. If your not saved, You will not see him on that day If your not saved, you will be DELIEVERED to God (not risen by him) for judgement, and be told to depart for he never knew you.
3. If you think everyone here be called Gods children, I think you are mistaken. And if you think we can tell who is saved here and who is not. I just use Judas as an example. When jesus said one would betray, they NEVER even thought for a second it was judas. Because HE ACTED just like them, yet as Jesus explained to them later, He was nothing like them, he was a child of satan from the start.

The gospel of christ is the most important doctrine in all the univers , if someone gets that wrong, it does not matter what they believe in any other area of christianity.

As paul said, He wishes thay known nothing more than christ and him crucified. Thats the most important, get this wrong, nothing else matters

And to prove how important he thought it was. He told the galation church if anyone, even an angel, toguth a different gospel. They are to be anathema (literally damned) thats pretty strong language would you not say? For something that you think does not really matter?



Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
I agree, You will know them by their fruits. But eben non believer or fakes can FAKE fruits. We see that all over the place.
 
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Revelation 19:10 KJV
[10] And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The TESTIMONY OF JESUS is the spirit of prophecy! Hence all prophecy points towards our Saviour!

Where does scripture say tongues is prophecy as you stated?
Tongues can be used in prophesy

1 cor 14: 6 - , if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?
 
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Prophesy confirms it came from God. Alot of the OT had prophesies and they all came true because they came from God. If someone prophesies and it doesnt come true than it wasnt of God.

Signs a person believes has been quoted in Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

These signs go hand in hand with a true believer. Jesus healed the sick and cast out demons. Jesus said we would do these works and greater works. So isnt this the truth of God? Shouldnt we have these signs if we are believers? Im sure not all the signs, but atleast one of these signs?
The problem with this is many believed have died or been killed by posion from snakes or from drinkng or eating.

Mark should end at verse 16, since all the other gospels stop there also..
 
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Actually, they are promised. On the day of Pentecost, they received the ability to "speak with other tongues, as the spirit gave them utterance" this is the only attribute listed as being manifest that particular day. Then Peter clarifies that what they are observing is the beginning of the fulfillment of the promise recorded by Joel (which includes many more attributes that were not listed as occurring that day, which is why I said "beginning of the fulfillment").

That promise also specifically listed attributes that were to be imparted upon, and manifested in their children as well as numerous signs and wonders yet to come.

Then, when they asked their particular role in these things, Peter clarifies that what they've seen and heard today (speaking in tongues by the Holy Ghost) which is the promise...is for you, your children, and as many as the Lord shall call. <--that's why it's available to everyone.

It's also promised in Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; ... they shall speak with new tongues;" If you are a believer, you have a right to ask for (and expect) those things which are promised to the believers. That is the nature of a promise.

And yes, that's why people say that if you don't have speaking in tongues, you are still needing to receive the Holy Ghost (a necessary part of salvation). Speaking in tongues is what happens when the outpouring of the Holy Ghost occurs.
Well then I guess I am not saved, nor are the 6000 active people in my church, or the millions of people who believe in Gods word who have never been given that gift.

Of course, thats not true. Because the bible says he gives AS HE WILL not to all. There were times when he needed to give that gift to get his will accomplished. There are times he does not.


1 cor 12: 4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works [e]all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by [f]the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

As you can see, He does not even promise that whoever has tongues will also have the gift of interpretation. Or the one who interprets will be given the gift of tongues.



My bible says "the spirit itself bears witness" (Romans 8:16) which means "provides observable evidence" which is exactly what 'speaking in tongues' is... observable evidence provided by the spirit itself.
A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, And non will be given.

If we are depending on signs to prove we are saved, we are in trouble, because we will either conjur up things which are not real and believe they are. Or make things up. And hide the fact they are not.

My spirit bears witness with me all the time, He doe snot need to give a visual observable sign. If I ever get to the point I need that, I am in serious trouble, Just being honest my friend.
(See those accounts in Acts that we've been discussing for confirmation)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The accounts of acts do not support you, at best circumstancial evidence. It does not prove ALL people will be given ANY gift.
 
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It's not a requirement to have the Holy Ghost to do those things. But those things are promised to be done by those that believe.
I never asked you that
I asked you if they had the HS

And yes my friend, One must have the HS to do them if they are empowered by God.
 

TLC209

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Mar 20, 2019
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Merced, CA
You can’t. But you better know if you are or not right? or do you want to live your life not knowing. And thus living in fear all your life (or denying your in fear)

I just do not get it!


Really? So if a person is not saved, it has no relevance at all?? Lol I praise God the people who brought me to christ did not think that.


1. If your not saved, You have no faith
2. If your not saved, You will not see him on that day If your not saved, you will be DELIEVERED to God (not risen by him) for judgement, and be told to depart for he never knew you.
3. If you think everyone here be called Gods children, I think you are mistaken. And if you think we can tell who is saved here and who is not. I just use Judas as an example. When jesus said one would betray, they NEVER even thought for a second it was judas. Because HE ACTED just like them, yet as Jesus explained to them later, He was nothing like them, he was a child of satan from the start.

The gospel of christ is the most important doctrine in all the univers , if someone gets that wrong, it does not matter what they believe in any other area of christianity.

As paul said, He wishes thay known nothing more than christ and him crucified. Thats the most important, get this wrong, nothing else matters

And to prove how important he thought it was. He told the galation church if anyone, even an angel, toguth a different gospel. They are to be anathema (literally damned) thats pretty strong language would you not say? For something that you think does not really matter?





I agree, You will know them by their fruits. But eben non believer or fakes can FAKE fruits. We see that all over the place.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Bro I dont see where Jesus said go tell people to be saved or that they are saved. Thats man made doctrine. So no focusing on being saved is just not right.

We must tell people about Jesus and what He did for us. Who He is. If they believe that is awesome! They will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and one day obtain the promise of eternal life when we die. But they must repent and be baptized thats part of the gospel.

Being "saved" from eternal hell, thats the endgame not the starting point. And we wont know who is saved or who isnt until the end when we are with Christ. We are to spread the gospel and make disciples baptizing them in the name of Jesus Christ. Not telling people repeat this prayer, you are now saved. Where is that in the bible? Its not. Because its man made doctrine. Focusing on a Spiritual promise we obtain in the end rather than focusing on Jesus Christ.
 
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Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Bro I dont see where Jesus said go tell people to be saved or that they are saved. Thats man made doctrine. So no focusing on being saved is just not right.
Nor am I, I am not God. And I have never stated to be god.

We must tell people about Jesus and what He did for us. Who He is. If they believe that is awesome! They will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and one day obtain the promise of eternal life when we die. But they must repent and be baptized thats part of the gospel.

Being "saved" from eternal hell, thats the endgame not the starting point. And we wont know who is saved or who isnt until the end when we are with Christ. We are to spread the gospel and make disciples baptizing them in the name of Jesus Christ. Not telling people repeat this prayer, you are now saved. Where is that in the bible? Its not. Because its man made doctrine. Focusing on a Spiritual promise we obtain in the end rather than focusing on Jesus Christ.
Wrong, Being saved from hell is the starting point

Because ONCE that is done

1. You recieve the HS
2. You recieve the inheritance
3. You have been adopted into Gods family
4. You have been empowered with the power to break sin
5. You have STARTED your way to sanctification or spiritual maturity.

If your not saved, YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED those thongs, Your still on the outside looking in.

If you see a brother preaching a false gospel. Do you correct them? Or do you go ahead and let them continue with that false gospel. And risk others follow that gospel which leads away from Christ

Again, I re-iterate Galatians 1.

If you have two people

1 is saved and has the spirit

1 is not saved and has not yet been given the spirit, because they have not recieved Christ in grace and truth

Yet the saved person gets the tongue issue wrong, and the unsaved one gets the tongues issue right. Does it really matter? Is getting the tongues issue right going to save the person who needs the gospel still. Or is the wrong interpretation of tongues going to condemned the saved to hell because he got it wrong? (Well if your some people you would claim if they get the tongues issue wring they are hellbound because they commit the unpardonable sin SMH)


These non salvic threads that get out of hand, Thats the issue. When you preach grace however, that will automatically bring a severe backlash, Because the world hates grace, and wants nothing to do with it. Legalism has bought into the world system, Just like the pharisee killed christ because he spoke against them, and the jews and others killed the disciples because they spoke against their religious self righteousness. You can expect those threads to be contentious. If they (grace vs works) were not contentious, I would expect somethign is wrong

 

TLC209

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Nor am I, I am not God. And I have never stated to be god.



Wrong, Being saved from hell is the starting point

Because ONCE that is done

1. You recieve the HS
2. You recieve the inheritance
3. You have been adopted into Gods family
4. You have been empowered with the power to break sin
5. You have STARTED your way to sanctification or spiritual maturity.


If your not saved, YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED those thongs, Your still on the outside looking in.

If you see a brother preaching a false gospel. Do you correct them? Or do you go ahead and let them continue with that false gospel. And risk others follow that gospel which leads away from Christ

Again, I re-iterate Galatians 1.

If you have two people

1 is saved and has the spirit

1 is not saved and has not yet been given the spirit, because they have not recieved Christ in grace and truth

Yet the saved person gets the tongue issue wrong, and the unsaved one gets the tongues issue right. Does it really matter? Is getting the tongues issue right going to save the person who needs the gospel still. Or is the wrong interpretation of tongues going to condemned the saved to hell because he got it wrong? (Well if your some people you would claim if they get the tongues issue wring they are hellbound because they commit the unpardonable sin SMH)

These non salvic threads that get out of hand, Thats the issue. When you preach grace however, that will automatically bring a severe backlash, Because the world hates grace, and wants nothing to do with it. Legalism has bought into the world system, Just like the pharisee killed christ because he spoke against them, and the jews and others killed the disciples because they spoke against their religious self righteousness. You can expect those threads to be contentious. If they (grace vs works) were not contentious, I would expect somethign is wrong
If you have not received those things you are not in hell and there is still hope for that person.

Saved doctrine focuses on hell. Anyone can be scared into accepting Jesus. But God does not give us a Spirit of fear. So why should we? Hell is not the focus.

Being saved from sin is the starting point. It is sin that leads to death. If we are saved from sin then we wont see death. (The second death.) The gift of grace reconciles us to God. We can walk upright in righteousness before God. And that brings joy, peace, love etc. A relationship with God. That is the focus of the gospel. Jesus pointes everything to the Father. It is through Jesus we can be reconciled to the Father. Jesus told us "your sins are forgiven." "Go and sin no more".

His message was clear. And if you read that parable about the the servant who owed the king alot of money and was going to imprison the servant but the king had mercy and cleared his debt. Just to findout later that the same servant had no mercy on someone who owed him less money and had him thrown in jail. The king threw him in jail when he found out.

Moral of the story, if we will not forgive others we will not be forgiven and we will be judged in the same measure. Only difference is we wont be thrown in prison, we will be thrown in the lake of fire. So it is important for a Christian to forgive. Turn the other cheek. There are ways we must live our lives. Jesus is that way. There is no other way to heaven. Im sorry that we cant seem to agree. God bless you bro.

Matthew 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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I never asked you that
I asked you if they had the HS

And yes my friend, One must have the HS to do them if they are empowered by God.
Here's one of those areas of conflict that you have...


If you believe that one MUST have the HS to do those things "if they are empowered by God", then you are saying that the 12 disciples (and others) did those things without being empowered by God (because they were doing those things before the Holy Ghost was even given).

John 7:39 KJV
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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Nobody can know for certain if another person has the Holy Spirit.
WRONG - stick to the scriptures and do not put your own theology above the truth.
The NT clearly teaches us that in the first and only church of the NT people knew exactly when new believers received the
baptism of the Holy Ghost - they spoke out in a new tongue - speaking in tongues + praying in the Holy Spirit.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,038
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I had people from a church, that I eventually left, tell me that unless I speak in tounges I dont have the Holy Spirit. I walked out of that conversation nicely but felt such offense I didnt want to go back to that church.
They were actually telling you the real truth of scripture.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,038
1,082
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
WRONG - stick to the scriptures and do not put your own theology above the truth.
The NT clearly teaches us that in the first and only church of the NT people knew exactly when new believers received the
baptism of the Holy Ghost - they spoke out in a new tongue - speaking in tongues + praying in the Holy Spirit.
Rats !! That 5 minute rule is bothersome ...
I meant to type: "speaking in tongues = praying in the Holy Spirit."
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
231
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Merced, CA
They were actually telling you the real truth of scripture.
Thats not true bro. And thats not even biblical. Show me outside of the book of Acts where someone spoke in other tounges when they received the Holy Spirit. Or show me where the bible teaches that if you dont speak in tounges you dont have the Holy Spirit.

Didnt people start speaking in tounges in 1906? Started in California on Souza street down south? So before that youre telling me that all the Christians prior to 1906 went to hell? Im not sure when speaking in tounges ended, 1st Century? So thats alot of Christians in hell.

You do realize we must be born of Spirit in order to enter in the kingdom of heaven right? By you saying No tounges/No Holy Spirit = No getting in the kingdom of heaven.