Some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God
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There is absolutely NOTHING in this sermon by Spurgeon that indicates "not a literal place".....
"THIS PASSAGE, like the rest of Isaiah's closing chapters, will have completest fulfillment in the latter days when Christ shall come, when the whole company of his elect ones shall have been gathered out from the world, when the whole creation shall have been renewed, when new heavens and a new earth shall be the product of the Savior's power, when, for ever and for ever, perfected saints of God shall behold his face, and joy and rejoice in him. I hope and believe that the following verses will actually describe the condition of the redeemed during the reign of Christ upon the earth: "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old. They shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant ...."
"THIS PASSAGE, like the rest of Isaiah's closing chapters, will have completest fulfillment in the latter days when Christ shall come, when the whole company of his elect ones shall have been gathered out from the world, when the whole creation shall have been renewed, when new heavens and a new earth shall be the product of the Savior's power, when, for ever and for ever, perfected saints of God shall behold his face, and joy and rejoice in him. I hope and believe that the following verses will actually describe the condition of the redeemed during the reign of Christ upon the earth: "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old. They shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant ...."
You are good at being wrong. Go back to this link again: http://archive.spurgeon.org/sermons/2211.php
Read the first paragraph after the short poem in the middle of the sermon. Spurgeon believed we were in the new heavens and earth NOW.
Yes, he was a premillennialist. He believed in a dual fulfillment. That it would be "completed" at a future return of Christ. He was wrong about that part. The Bible does not support a dual fulfillment.
Rev 1: 19, "Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things."
Rev 22: 6, "Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.
Seven times in Rev: 1: 1,3 and Rev 22: 6,7,10,12,20 we are told the things in the book would happen shortly. 2,000 years is not shortly, quickly, near or at hand. All futurists deny the meaning of those words and they are simply wrong.
Read the first paragraph after the short poem in the middle of the sermon. Spurgeon believed we were in the new heavens and earth NOW.
Yes, he was a premillennialist. He believed in a dual fulfillment. That it would be "completed" at a future return of Christ. He was wrong about that part. The Bible does not support a dual fulfillment.
Rev 1: 19, "Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things."
Rev 22: 6, "Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.
Seven times in Rev: 1: 1,3 and Rev 22: 6,7,10,12,20 we are told the things in the book would happen shortly. 2,000 years is not shortly, quickly, near or at hand. All futurists deny the meaning of those words and they are simply wrong.
Sir Isaac Newton; are you saying that he held "Preterist" viewpoint (all prophecy fulfilled in 70ad)? Or just that he interpreted "the kingdom of God" as taking place presently? with Jesus' actual Presence coming later? Or what?
Isn't he the guy who said, "About the time of the End, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation in the midst of much clamor and opposition." ?
Are you saying he believed "the time of the end" would be fulfilled [in what we now call] the 70ad events? (though I've read that he figured it would take place in 2060... but then another person supplied another [supposed] quote of his, essentially saying that he "only said that in order to put to SILENCE the people who continually look for dates" [not a direct quote], but then, much of his work seemed to consist of examining the scriptures in just such a way, so that doesn't make entire sense to me that that second idea was actually from him... but who knows
).
I'm just wondering what YOU are saying his viewpoint was (on the subject), in light of your thread posts here, and your reason for bringing his name into it. Was he Preterist? Or are you not making that point?
Oh yeah, and I had meant to add one of the [only] TWO verses in all of the epistles using the word "KING" (both "future tense") where 1Tim6:15 speaks of "which in His times He SHALL [future] OPENLY MANIFEST..."
Isn't he the guy who said, "About the time of the End, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation in the midst of much clamor and opposition." ?
Are you saying he believed "the time of the end" would be fulfilled [in what we now call] the 70ad events? (though I've read that he figured it would take place in 2060... but then another person supplied another [supposed] quote of his, essentially saying that he "only said that in order to put to SILENCE the people who continually look for dates" [not a direct quote], but then, much of his work seemed to consist of examining the scriptures in just such a way, so that doesn't make entire sense to me that that second idea was actually from him... but who knows
).I'm just wondering what YOU are saying his viewpoint was (on the subject), in light of your thread posts here, and your reason for bringing his name into it.
Was he Preterist? Or are you not making that point?Oh yeah, and I had meant to add one of the [only] TWO verses in all of the epistles using the word "KING" (both "future tense") where 1Tim6:15 speaks of "which in His times He SHALL [future] OPENLY MANIFEST..."
I am not saying he was a preterist. I am saying that he understood what "heavens and earth" and a "new heavens and earth" represent. Here is a quote from him:
Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
"The figurative language of the prophets is taken from the analogy between the world natural and an empire or kingdom considered as a world politic. Accordingly, the world natural, consisting of heaven and earth, signifies the whole world politic, consisting of thrones and people, or so much of it as is considered in prophecy; and the things in that world signify the analogous things in this. For the heavens and the things therein signify thrones and dignities, and those who enjoy them: and the earth, with the things thereon, the inferior people; and the lowest parts of the earth, called Hades or Hell, the lowest or most miserable part of them. Great earthquakes, and the shaking of heaven and earth, are put for the shaking of kingdoms, so as to distract and overthrow them; the creating of a new heaven and earth, and the passing of an old one; or the beginning and end of a world, for the rise and ruin of a body politic signified thereby. The sun, for the whole species and race of kings, in the kingdoms of the world politic; the moon, for the body of common people considered as the king's wife; the starts, for subordinate princes and great men; or for bishops and rulers of the people of God, when the sun is Christ. Setting of the sun, moon, and stars; darkening the sun, turning the moon into blood, and falling of the stars, for the ceasing of a kingdom." (Observations on the Prophecies, Part i. chap. ii)
Other people who believed the same thing include: Eusebius, Origen, John Lightfoot, John Owen, Jonathan Edwards, John Brown and others. You can see some of those comments here: https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/n/new-heavens-earth.html
Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
"The figurative language of the prophets is taken from the analogy between the world natural and an empire or kingdom considered as a world politic. Accordingly, the world natural, consisting of heaven and earth, signifies the whole world politic, consisting of thrones and people, or so much of it as is considered in prophecy; and the things in that world signify the analogous things in this. For the heavens and the things therein signify thrones and dignities, and those who enjoy them: and the earth, with the things thereon, the inferior people; and the lowest parts of the earth, called Hades or Hell, the lowest or most miserable part of them. Great earthquakes, and the shaking of heaven and earth, are put for the shaking of kingdoms, so as to distract and overthrow them; the creating of a new heaven and earth, and the passing of an old one; or the beginning and end of a world, for the rise and ruin of a body politic signified thereby. The sun, for the whole species and race of kings, in the kingdoms of the world politic; the moon, for the body of common people considered as the king's wife; the starts, for subordinate princes and great men; or for bishops and rulers of the people of God, when the sun is Christ. Setting of the sun, moon, and stars; darkening the sun, turning the moon into blood, and falling of the stars, for the ceasing of a kingdom." (Observations on the Prophecies, Part i. chap. ii)
Other people who believed the same thing include: Eusebius, Origen, John Lightfoot, John Owen, Jonathan Edwards, John Brown and others. You can see some of those comments here: https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/n/new-heavens-earth.html
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^ Okay, so... (or should I say, so what )… keep in mind you are talking with a futurist (pre-tribber here ) who, as I've often said, also does NOT believe that the following passage was referring to the literal twinkling things we see up in the sky at night:
Daniel 8:10 -
"10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them."
I also do not believe airplanes will fall out of the sky at the time of our Rapture (and so forth).
)… keep in mind you are talking with a futurist (pre-tribber here ) who, as I've often said, also does NOT believe that the following passage was referring to the literal twinkling things we see up in the sky at night:Daniel 8:10 -
"10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them."
I also do not believe airplanes will fall out of the sky at the time of our Rapture (and so forth).
O
CLV
Matthew 16:
27 Verily I am saying to you that there are some of those standing here who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the Son of Mankind coming in His kingdom."
Mark 9:
1 And He said to them, "Verily, I am saying to you that there are some of those standing here who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the kingdom of God having come in power."
Luke 9:
27 Now I am saying to you, truly there are some of those standing here who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the kingdom of God."
This is what is actually said here, by Yeshua.
And why should some there standing, "who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the kingdom of God having come in power."
The question is actually then, what circumstances would keep those standing there from not seeing the Kingdom of God come in Power?
Sin, human judgement, human error.
Yeshua did not give a promise these men would still be alive, He said, under no circumstances they should be alive. They just happen to be the wildcards who bring this "no circumstances" into play. They are the ones who can change this statement by Yeshua..
Yes, we walk by the faith of Christ that comes from hearing God no seen. Not after what the eyes see as the lust thereof. Its a evil generation, the generation of Adam that does seek after signs as lying wonders gospel , making the faith of Christ without effect..
.The faith of Christ of God by a work of his faith work with us in us..It is the treasure of a imputed righteousness we have in us....not of us.
In other words in respect to the generation of Christ the new creatures .Not after the generation of Adam, no faith
.The faith of Christ of God by a work of his faith work with us in us..It is the treasure of a imputed righteousness we have in us....not of us.
In other words in respect to the generation of Christ the new creatures .Not after the generation of Adam, no faith
You have completely twisted the word of God and should be ashamed of yourself. Matt 16: 27-28, Mark 8: 38-9:1 and Luke 9: 26-27 DO NOT say what you are claiming.
In the Greek it is clear. Some of them standing there would not die before He returned. You are perverting the Scripture by claiming the disciples behavior "can change this statement by Yeshua".
You obviously hate what the Scripture says in these verses and will not accept it. Your desperate manipulation doesn't change what they say though.
The Greek says nothing about the disciples voiding Jesus' words by their behavior in Matt 16: 27-28. Your claim is ridiculous.
You used a translation you called the CLV. Do you mind telling me what translation that is? I have been unable to locate it.
By the way, an English translation is not reading it in the original Greek. It appears you found some weird translation to try and get around what Matt 16 actually says.
You used a translation you called the CLV. Do you mind telling me what translation that is? I have been unable to locate it.
By the way, an English translation is not reading it in the original Greek. It appears you found some weird translation to try and get around what Matt 16 actually says.
O
I never said about them voiding the word of God. I said, in proper translation, Yeshua is not saying what the KJV has led us to believe all of these years.
It's actual Greek, from the time of Yeshua, when the Gospel writers would have written it. You can just search "CLV Bible online." It's typically the first option given.
hahaha
English from Greek
It's actual Greek, from the time of Yeshua, when the Gospel writers would have written it. You can just search "CLV Bible online." It's typically the first option given.
hahaha
English from Greek
I don't see any Greek provided - the verse you provided is from A.E. Knoch's concordant literal version that has some peculiar biased translation issues.
As for you "zooming" in on Knoch's use of "under no circumstances" is without merit and is not supported by the Greek.
And this is what Knoch states in his hyper-dispensational commentary:
Matthew 16:28-17:23
28 See 2 Pt.1:16-18.
28 This prediction was fulfilled about a week later when He took His most intimate disciples
with Him and they saw His power and presence and were spectators of His magnificence
(2Pt.1:16). It is fitting that, at this juncture, there should be some plain intimation of the
postponement of the kingdom. In the record the promise is immediately followed by its
fulfillment, but there is a week's delay. Another cycle must run its course before the proper
conditions reappear which precede the kingdom.
1-9
As for you "zooming" in on Knoch's use of "under no circumstances" is without merit and is not supported by the Greek.
And this is what Knoch states in his hyper-dispensational commentary:
Matthew 16:28-17:23
28 See 2 Pt.1:16-18.
28 This prediction was fulfilled about a week later when He took His most intimate disciples
with Him and they saw His power and presence and were spectators of His magnificence
(2Pt.1:16). It is fitting that, at this juncture, there should be some plain intimation of the
postponement of the kingdom. In the record the promise is immediately followed by its
fulfillment, but there is a week's delay. Another cycle must run its course before the proper
conditions reappear which precede the kingdom.
1-9
No, the CLV is not the Greek manuscripts. It is an English translation. You need to read it in the Greek.
You chose a bad translation and try to use the phrase "under no circumstances" means that the disciples, by their behavior (that would be circumstances), can cancel Jesus' words in Matt 16: 27-28. Your own translation says "under no circumstances" and refutes your own argument.
Now you go to another English translation, the Complete Jewish Bible, and it doesn't even have the phrase "under no circumstances" that you are claiming it has.
Here is the actual verse in Matt 16: 27 in the CJB:
Matt 16: 27, "For the Son of Man will come in his Father’s glory, with his angels; and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct."
So now you have lied about what was in the CJB. You obviously won't accept what the Scripture actually says in Matt 16: 27-28.
I don't feel like continuing to dialogue with someone who will outright lie and then misquote English versions to reject Scripture.
God bless you anyways in your search for truth.
You chose a bad translation and try to use the phrase "under no circumstances" means that the disciples, by their behavior (that would be circumstances
), can cancel Jesus' words in Matt 16: 27-28. Your own translation says "under no circumstances" and refutes your own argument. Now you go to another English translation, the Complete Jewish Bible, and it doesn't even have the phrase "under no circumstances" that you are claiming it has.
Here is the actual verse in Matt 16: 27 in the CJB:
Matt 16: 27, "For the Son of Man will come in his Father’s glory, with his angels; and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct."
So now you have lied about what was in the CJB. You obviously won't accept what the Scripture actually says in Matt 16: 27-28.
I don't feel like continuing to dialogue with someone who will outright lie and then misquote English versions to reject Scripture.
God bless you anyways in your search for truth.
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That's not what I'm seeing in the CJB:
28 Yes! I tell you that there are some people standing here who will not experience death until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom!”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt+16;28&version=CJB
28 Yes! I tell you that there are some people standing here who will not experience death until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom!”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt+16;28&version=CJB