Sons of God and daughters of Men

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#41
No, this is God telling Pharaoh that Israel was his possession. Sons of God is a possessive term that identifies the people of God and belonging to God.
Pharaoh? Hosea revealed the carnal characteristics of the Israelites prior to their captivity to the Assyrians in 722 b.c. The doctrinal aim is the second coming and the national restoration of the nation of Israel.

His marriage to a wicked woman was a sign of Israel’s adultery against God.
 

oldhermit

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#42
Continue the verse, and this day I have begotten thee. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. No angel or man was begotten of God.
I really do not think you are thinking through what you are saying. All who are sons of God are begotten of God. From this text we learn two immediate truths. 1. That God never called any angel "My Son" and 2. That he never called any angel "begotten.' Yet, both of these things are true of men, although Jesus is the subject of the text. Read the Epistle of 1 John. It is filled with this kind of language.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#43
No, this is God telling Pharaoh that Israel was his possession. Sons of God is a possessive term that identifies the people of God and belonging to God.
Are you saying that when godly men marry ungodly women the results are giants? Or is that figurative too?

If you don’t take the word of God literally, you make it say anything you want.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#44
I really do not think you are thinking through what you are saying. All who are sons of God are begotten of God. From this text we learn two immediate truths. 1. That God never called any angel "My Son" and 2. That he never called any angel "begotten.' Yet, both of these things are true of men, although Jesus is the subject of the text. Read the Epistle of 1 John. It is filled with this kind of language.
No man was begotten of God. The Lord Jesus was the only one begotten of God, which is born of God. The seed placed in Mary which produced the body of the Lord was placed by God not man.

I was begotten by my earthly father. That word begotten is key. When removed it makes John 3:16 a lie.
 

oldhermit

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#45
Pharaoh? Hosea revealed the carnal characteristics of the Israelites prior to their captivity to the Assyrians in 722 b.c. The doctrinal aim is the second coming and the national restoration of the nation of Israel.

His marriage to a wicked woman was a sign of Israel’s adultery against God.
The text he is quoting is from Exodus 4:22. These are the words Moses spoke to Pharaoh. "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, "Israel is My son, My firstborn." Granted, Hosea also uses this to speak of the time when Israel would be restored under a new covenant but, that does not lessen the fact that when Moses delivered this message to Pharaoh, God still said Israel "IS" my son, not will be my son.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#46
The text he is quoting is from Exodus 4:22. These are the words Moses spoke to Pharaoh. "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, "Israel is My son, My firstborn." Granted, Hosea also uses this to speak of the time when Israel would be restored under a new covenant but, that does not lessen the fact that when Moses delivered this message to Pharaoh, God still said Israel "IS" my son, not will be my son.
Is this not saying that corporately the nation of Israel is God’s son? No individual Jew was considered a son of God before Christ’s death except King David.
 

oldhermit

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#47
Are you saying that when godly men marry ungodly women the results are giants? Or is that figurative too?

If you don’t take the word of God literally, you make it say anything you want.
What does the text say? It says that the sons of God took daughters of men. Nowhere in this text is there any mention of angels. Sons of God is a term reserved in scripture for the people of God under both testaments. Daughters of men are those of the ungodly. Remember, when Israel was entering Canaan, God repeatedly warned them not to take the daughter of the other nations for their sons or to give their sons to their daughters. If they did, the result would be a departure from God into idolatry and the nation would be destroyed as a result. This is precisely what happened leading up to the time of Noah. The union of the people of God with the daughters of men resulted in the destruction of the entire planet and all of humanity save Noah and his family. The emergence of the Nephilim was nothing more than human genetics that continued to propagate through the human gene pool for many generations without any non-human assistance.
 

Deade

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#48
No man was begotten of God. The Lord Jesus was the only one begotten of God, which is born of God. The seed placed in Mary which produced the body of the Lord was placed by God not man.

I was begotten by my earthly father. That word begotten is key. When removed it makes John 3:16 a lie.
It looks like a begetting with a seed being planted.

1 John 2:24 "Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

John even calls us begotten.

1 John 5:18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." :):cool:;)
 

John146

Senior Member
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#49
What does the text say? It says that the sons of God took daughters of men. Nowhere in this text is there any mention of angels. Sons of God is a term reserved in scripture for the people of God under both testaments. Daughters of men are those of the ungodly. Remember, when Israel was entering Canaan, God repeatedly warned them not to take the daughter of the other nations for their sons or to give their sons to their daughters. If they did, the result would be a departure from God into idolatry and the nation would be destroyed as a result. This is precisely what happened leading up to the time of Noah. The union of the people of God with the daughters of men resulted in the destruction of the entire planet and all of humanity save Noah and his family. The emergence of the Nephilim was nothing more than human genetics that continued to propagate through the human gene pool for many generations without any non-human assistance.
Are you implying that Seth’s line was godly? No such thing as a godly line of man. And, if they were godly, they wouldn’t have disobeyed God.

Human genetics? Really?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#50
its hard to believe people take scriptures like Job 38 and say its in conclusive? sons of the Most High in existance before man proves they were non mankind heavenly beings of some sort, the fact whether they are "messengers" or not is completely irreverent. what it does prove conclusively is sons of the Most High are heavenly beings and not beings of this world.
and there are no passages that say sons of the Most High are men. the NT references are talking about spirit, or a future transformation.
As many as are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. Those seen having the ability to recreate and multiply and those not seen having no form or DNA.... not made of the dust of the field . In that way we are gods created in the image of God we are not to place ourselves before God and violate the first commandment

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10:33-35

The message in genesis 6 .No not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers
 

oldhermit

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#51
No man was begotten of God. The Lord Jesus was the only one begotten of God, which is born of God. The seed placed in Mary which produced the body of the Lord was placed by God not man.

I was begotten by my earthly father. That word begotten is key. When removed it makes John 3:16 a lie.
Jesus was, and he was called the son of God. did that make him an angel?
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." 1 John 5:1

"We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." 1 John 5:18

"Having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth." 1 Peter 1:23.

Do I need to go on?
 

oldhermit

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#52
Are you implying that Seth’s line was godly? No such thing as a godly line of man. And, if they were godly, they wouldn’t have disobeyed God.

Human genetics? Really?
You seem to be ignoring the context of Job which is about the godly character of a man named Job of whom God was exceedingly proud. You also seem to be forgetting Noah who was the last of the godly element of those generations.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#53
Can anybody explain according to the scripture with out any own explanation
1. The first thing to note is that the book of Genesis (which is in the Torah) is divine revelation. God gave those words to Moses, and he recorded them exactly as given.
And God provided us with the barest of details in this context.

2. The next thing to note is that only angels are called "sons of God" in the Old Testament (Genesis and Job). That is because they are direct creations of God (no mothers involved). The Old Testament saints are never called "sons of God" but simply "righteous". Job is a good example in that he could have been called a son of God (along with Noah and Daniel) but they are simply designated as "righteous". It is only in the New Testament that human beings are called sons of God after the New Birth (John 1:12,13 and other passages).

3. The third thing to note is that throughout Scripture angels are presented as masculine spirit beings who appear to human beings as ordinary men.

4. The fourth thing to note is that in Genesis 6, "sons of God" are CONTRASTED with "daughters of men" because they are essentially different.

5. The fifth thing to note is that because of the sexual union of these angels with human women, the offspring were unusual -- giants or Nephilim: There were giants [Nephilim] in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto [cohabited with] the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Gen 6:4)

What is this verse teaching? 1. Before the Flood there were giants on the earth. 2. When the evil angels had sexual relations with human women, their children were (a) giants, (b) mighty men, and (c) men of renown.

How do we know that these "sons of God" were evil angels? We are told that in the New Testament.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. (Jude 1:6-8)
[NOTE: Jude connects the evil angels with Sodom and Gomorrah and their sexual sins (fornication, going after strange flesh) by using the terms "even as" and "in like manner". Then he connects that with the false prophets who defile the flesh with "likewise"].

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly... (2 Peter 2:4-6)
 

oldhermit

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#54
Is this not saying that corporately the nation of Israel is God’s son? No individual Jew was considered a son of God before Christ’s death except King David.
Think about what you are saying. Faith is always an individual characteristic. A nation is only faithful if the individuals within it are faithful. This does not of course mean that every individual in Israel was faithful. I think we can both agree with that. At any rate, the fact remains that God referred to Israel as his son, his firstborn, even when they were still in Egypt regardless of what you or I think of their character as a nation.
 

Deade

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#55
poetic means it is true or false?



Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

these guys got punished for doing what wasnt allowed?
Poetic means we can hold judgment until something else confirms it. 2 Cor. 13:1 "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

Demons wreak plenty of evil but only within the parameters set by God (see Job 1:12 & 2:6). The devil is called the prince of the power of air; so he is free to transmit his ideas into man head. With that, he pretty much runs this world system. God gave dominion to man (Gen. 1:28) and Satan runs things without man's knowledge. God said we will be amazed by how little power Satan has once we see the whole picture.

Isa. 14:16, 17 "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; that made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?"

Demons cannot procreate with humans. :cool:
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#56
Continue the verse, and this day I have begotten thee. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. No angel or man was begotten of God.

With mankind it would be begotten again as in born again .Die once begotten twice .Marvel not
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#57
Jesus was, and he was called the son of God. did that make him an angel?
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." 1 John 5:1

"We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." 1 John 5:18

"Having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth." 1 Peter 1:23.

Do I need to go on?
It made him a messenger from where the word angel comes from, a messenger of the gospel, as a apostle
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#58
You seem to be ignoring the context of Job which is about the godly character of a man named Job of whom God was exceedingly proud. You also seem to be forgetting Noah who was the last of the godly element of those generations.
Job 38
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Stars are sons of God. Morning stars are angels.

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Again, no man was present when God laid the foundations of the earth. These sons of God in Genesis 6 are not men. The giants show up all throughout Scripture and will be kings during the battle of Armageddon at the second coming of Jesus. They are iron mixed with miry clay.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#59
With mankind it would be begotten again as in born again .Die once begotten twice .Marvel not
The only way to be born again is through the new birth after the resurrection. No man was born again in the OT.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#60
Think about what you are saying. Faith is always an individual characteristic. A nation is only faithful if the individuals within it are faithful. This does not of course mean that every individual in Israel was faithful. I think we can both agree with that. At any rate, the fact remains that God referred to Israel as his son, his firstborn, even when they were still in Egypt regardless of what you or I think of their character as a nation.
Israel was not faithful. Read it's history in the OT. God made Israel as a nation His son because of the promised seed of Genesis 3:15 given through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.