Sons of God and daughters of Men

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jaybird88

Guest
And according to the Jews, Noah wrote Enoch's sayings down.


Here is Yeshua quoting Enoch:

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (Mat 5:5) The elect shall possess light, joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth. (Enoch 5:7 {6:9})

the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the son (John 5:22). the principal part of the judgment was assigned to him, the Son of man. (Enoch 69:27 {68:39})

shall inherit everlasting life (Mat. 19:29) those who will inherit eternal life (Enoch 40:9 {40:9})

"Wo unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. (Luke 6:24) Woe to you who are rich, for in your riches have you trusted; but from your riches you shall be removed. (Enoch 94:8 {93:7}).

Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mat. 19:28) I will place each of them on a throne of glory (Enoch 108:12 {105:26})

Woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born. (Mat. 26:24) Where will the habitation of sinners be . . . who have rejected the Lord of spirits. It would have been better for them, had they never been born. (Enoch 38:2 {38:2})

between us and you there is a great gulf fixed. (Luke 16:26) by a chasm . . . [are] their souls are separated (Enoch 22: 9,11{22:10,12})

In my Father's house are many mansions (John 14:2) In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory, and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations. (Enoch 45:3 {45:3})

that ye may be called the children of light (John 12:36) the good from the generation of light (Enoch 108:11 {105: 25})

the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:14) all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy. (Enoch 48:1 {48:1})

Jude quoting Enoch

Jude 1:14-15, quoting Enoch 1:9 {2:1} [1]

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
"To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

These weren't sayings that everyone just automatically knew, they were found in an actual BOOK written before the Messiah was ever prophesied:
you dont understand, it makes little difference how many times Jesus, Son of the Most High, the Christ, quotes a book, that simply isnt good enough for some people. in order for a book to be considered scripture some people will only accept those books approved by roman councils. these are the same councils that gave us the inquisitions, crusades, burning hundreds of thousands alive, called the Nazerenes (sect of Jesus) heretics, lived in homes of luxury at the expense of the poor, and gave us doctrines such as the earth being the center of the universe. we can trust these councils to tell us which books are scripture right?
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
you dont understand, it makes little difference how many times Jesus, Son of the Most High, the Christ, quotes a book, that simply isnt good enough for some people. in order for a book to be considered scripture some people will only accept those books approved by roman councils. these are the same councils that gave us the inquisitions, crusades, burning hundreds of thousands alive, called the Nazerenes (sect of Jesus) heretics, lived in homes of luxury at the expense of the poor, and gave us doctrines such as the earth being the center of the universe. we can trust these councils to tell us which books are scripture right?

I would not trust that Council to safely walk my mother across the street!!

The fact we have Joshua and David both quoting from the book of Jasher (which Jasher explains in great detail how Abraham learned of God first hand from his own family members Noah and Shem) and yet, Jasher cannot be found anywhere within our Canon. Are just some of the many proofs concerning the corruption and ungodliness of the Council!!

We are not to judge, but evidence proves the members of the Council definitely should not fair well during the Great White Throne Judgement..
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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I would not trust that Council to safely walk my mother across the street!!

The fact we have Joshua and David both quoting from the book of Jasher (which Jasher explains in great detail how Abraham learned of God first hand from his own family members Noah and Shem) and yet, Jasher cannot be found anywhere within our Canon. Are just some of the many proofs concerning the corruption and ungodliness of the Council!!

We are not to judge, but evidence proves the members of the Council definitely should not fair well during the Great White Throne Judgement..
The problem with the book of Jasher is that the earliest version on hand today was written in the 17th century.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
The problem with the book of Jasher is that the earliest version on hand today was written in the 17th century.
What date would it need to have to be considered scripture?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What date would it need to have to be considered scripture?
It would have to be a date before the last words were prophecied and a warning not to add or subtract from the whole or perfect . It is sealed up with seven seals till the end of time.

And there is no book called Enoch. There is prophecy, the same that Moses heard .But we cannot speculate and say this or that as a oral tradition of men and widen the authority of the word of God. .

And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. Deuteronomy 33;2

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,Jude 14
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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What date would it need to have to be considered scripture?
Probably, no later than the first century.
If you read the book of Jasher (17 th century version), you will see it's pretty much a rewording of Genesis with some embelishments.
In chapter 12, Abram smahes all the idols in his fathers house, for which is then sentenced to burn in an oven made hot for 3 days.
Abram is then thrown in and walks around in the fire for three days.
This then raises questions: Did Abram go to sleep in the fire for three nights?
Why did the fire continue burning after the purpose it was made for was completed?
Why did it take three days for the 900,000 men in the town to notice someone was still alive and walking around in the fire?

Finally, does not the fire pit in which Abram was supposedly thrown in sound a lot like the story in Daniel 3?

Daniel 3:21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flames of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.
27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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Where there two Enochs in the Bible? One that had a city named after him? From Cain. And the other from .Seths line? See Genesis chapters 4 and 5. Am a bit confused with the geneology becuase there are many names similar unless...cain and seth shared wives or something. Two Lamechs or one? Irad and Jared, Methuseal and Methuselah.
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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Again, after the fall, man is no longer a son of God. Adam passed his image not God’s image to Seth, etc. Man can only become a son of God through the new birth.
Is it possible that the only child of Adams children that believed and recieved the new birth was Seth? So all of Adams children except Seth were considered "sons of men" because they would not believe and have the new birth and become "sons of God", except Seth. Seth's children followed after Adam and their father and did believe in God and His Son Jesus, and did receive the new birth and were known as "sons of God".

Could it be that some of these "sons of God" from Adam and Seths lineage, turned away from their fathers and went to the other children of Adam that rejected God and His Son Jesus, (which they perhaps were admonished not to have anything to do with) and married these "daughters of men" and from that point to the flood created a lineage of strong and mighty men and women that rejected God and did as they wanted, which resulted in the condition that existed just before the flood?

The "sons of God" were shouting for joy in Job 38 because they were witnessing the beginning of the earth being created by God. But if they were not to be going to be mortals on this new earth, why were they shouting for joy?
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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Continue the verse, and this day I have begotten thee. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. No angel or man was begotten of God.
You are correct. The only begotten son in a flesh body is Jesus Christ. Obviously there were many, many other beings created by God before the world was created, that were not begotten in the flesh.
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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In Hebrews 1:5 when the question is asked, "For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my Son...." The answer to the question is NONE! God has never said to any angel, "You are my son."
This is God referring to his flesh body Son, which was Jesus Christ. No other spirit creation of God was begotten by Him in the flesh, here on earth.

However, God created many persons before the earth was created, and they could only have been created as spirit beings.

Job 38 says that the sons of God shouted for joy as they saw the earth being created.
Job 1 says that the sons of God came to present themselves to God. Interesting because satan came too, from his earth home, from which God had thrust him out of heaven some time before (Revelations 12)
 

oldhermit

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Jul 28, 2012
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This is God referring to his flesh body Son, which was Jesus Christ. No other spirit creation of God was begotten by Him in the flesh, here on earth.

However, God created many persons before the earth was created, and they could only have been created as spirit beings.

Job 38 says that the sons of God shouted for joy as they saw the earth being created.
Job 1 says that the sons of God came to present themselves to God. Interesting because satan came too, from his earth home, from which God had thrust him out of heaven some time before (Revelations 12)
What scriptural evidence do you have that God created other persons before he created the earth....unless you are speaking of angels.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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It would have to be a date before the last words were prophecied and a warning not to add or subtract from the whole or perfect . It is sealed up with seven seals till the end of time.

And there is no book called Enoch. There is prophecy, the same that Moses heard .But we cannot speculate and say this or that as a oral tradition of men and widen the authority of the word of God. .

And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. Deuteronomy 33;2

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,Jude 14

In Revelation it's self it states that after the Revelation was received the two witnesses come and that they would prophesy(Rev.11:3). So if in the text of Revelation is a prophecy about someone else coming after the Revelation is sealed it would mean not to add to or take away from Revelation not that it was the last time someone would prophesy.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
Probably, no later than the first century.
If you read the book of Jasher (17 th century version), you will see it's pretty much a rewording of Genesis with some embelishments.
In chapter 12, Abram smahes all the idols in his fathers house, for which is then sentenced to burn in an oven made hot for 3 days.
Abram is then thrown in and walks around in the fire for three days.
This then raises questions: Did Abram go to sleep in the fire for three nights?
Why did the fire continue burning after the purpose it was made for was completed?
Why did it take three days for the 900,000 men in the town to notice someone was still alive and walking around in the fire?

Finally, does not the fire pit in which Abram was supposedly thrown in sound a lot like the story in Daniel 3?

Daniel 3:21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flames of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.
27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
so anything written after the year 100 is not a good candidate for scripture? the earliest gospel text are 100 - 200 AD. and these are only the fragments. the oldest complete gospels are 600s. some of those fragments are small, if iu remember correctly one is around 60% meaning 40% of that gospel only goes back to 600 years after the ascension.
i have read Jasher and i think its a legit book, i had no strange feeling when reading it (like i have had with other non canon books) and its pretty mild, not like Enoch, it can take you pretty far out there, its not a book you want to read until you are ready.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
I would not trust that Council to safely walk my mother across the street!!
LOL to funny
i would not trust them with a potato gun

The fact we have Joshua and David both quoting from the book of Jasher (which Jasher explains in great detail how Abraham learned of God first hand from his own family members Noah and Shem) and yet, Jasher cannot be found anywhere within our Canon. Are just some of the many proofs concerning the corruption and ungodliness of the Council!!

We are not to judge, but evidence proves the members of the Council definitely should not fair well during the Great White Throne Judgement..
its not just quoted and refereed to by name, the Almighty tells us to go read this book if we want more details. IMO He would not tell us to read something that does not exist.

many of these books were held in oral tradition rather than on scrolls. i always thought it strange that so few today put any value in those books held orally. an atheist can copy a sacred scripture but oral traditions were only passed on through those that were devoted to the faith.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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The confusion I think is why anyone would want to shoot potatoes in the first place,they seem peaceful enough. on the other hand if the gun uses potatoes as projectiles a potato gun safety handlers course would indicate those not trustworthy to use one.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
The problem with the book of Jasher is that the earliest version on hand today was written in the 17th century.


And Joshua and king David put the Book of Jasher somewhere around 2250 B.C., almost 40 centuries earlier :)
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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so anything written after the year 100 is not a good candidate for scripture? the earliest gospel text are 100 - 200 AD. and these are only the fragments. the oldest complete gospels are 600s. some of those fragments are small, if iu remember correctly one is around 60% meaning 40% of that gospel only goes back to 600 years after the ascension.
i have read Jasher and i think its a legit book, i had no strange feeling when reading it (like i have had with other non canon books) and its pretty mild, not like Enoch, it can take you pretty far out there, its not a book you want to read until you are ready.
In order for the 17th century book of Jashur to be valid, it would had to have been copied from some earlier scriptures.
If there were any then, what happened to them?
Hopefully, some day they will uncover the actual scriptures from Jashur, as Joshua apparently quoted Jashur's prophesying about someone causing the sun to stop.
Kind of reminds me of the Neil Diamond lyrics where someone calls the sun to rise, and it rises.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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And Joshua and king David put the Book of Jasher somewhere around 2250 B.C., almost 40 centuries earlier:)
Just like the book of Enoch which I believe to be Gods Word; the original manuscript would have to be even earlier than 2250 BC.
However, unlike the 17th century book of Jashur, the book of Enoch is derived from some 1st and 2nd century BC copies.
I think the book of Enoch even appears in some of the Dead sea scrolls.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
Just like the book of Enoch which I believe to be Gods Word; the original manuscript would have to be even earlier than 2250 BC.
However, unlike the 17th century book of Jashur, the book of Enoch is derived from some 1st and 2nd century BC copies.
I think the book of Enoch even appears in some of the Dead sea scrolls.


The papyrus from the post I made earlier concerning Enoch, was dated based upon the similarities from how the early Egyptians used the river plant to create their own writing papers. The evolution of how the papyrus was made from early Egypt to 1st century A.D. is fascinating when you consider the imagination and thought process involved for that time period. It went from a drying - gluing -drying - flattening process, to eventually being sewn together process. And we can assuredly date papyrus according to this scale. It really is a flawless method. This is how they conclude it was Noah, who actually wrote down the words of Enoch, his great grandfather.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
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You are gonna believe whatever you want to believe. Something about leading a horse to water... But it seems to me YOU are the one engaging in speculation.

We have given quite a bit of evidence to support angels mating with human women producing a hybrid race, called the nephillim. The idea that the "sons of God" are really the sons of Adam, or sons of Seth are frankly ludicrous and have no Scriptural support.

I have come to believe this is a more important issue than just a side show. You will not understand large chunks of the Bible until you get this right.

WHY did God have to destroy the world with a flood? Because of sin in the sense that WE think? If that is so we better ALL start building an ark!

No. It was a specific sin. God's creation was almost completely corrupted. But Noah was found to be perfect in his generation. Read that GENES! By which we actually get the word generations.

Why were there giants, and whole races of people that Israel again and again were told to utterly destroy EVERY man, woman, child, and baby, and animal? Imagine an Israeli looking in the eyes of 3 yr old little boy or girl and chopping their head off! You cannot explain that except that God was again trying to keep the Messiah's line uncorrupted.

This is important because Jesus says as in the days of Noah.... Once again, we see the corruption of God's Creation here at the end times. Who could possibly be blind to both DNA and transhumanist tinkering of Creation today?

So I know you are unlikely to change your stance on this issue, but hopefully others will read and not buy the ridiculous line of Seth story.

Here's an "As in the days of Noah..." update:

The CRISPR twins had their brains altered
New research suggests that a controversial gene-editing experiment to make children resistant to HIV may also have enhanced their ability to learn and form memories.

The brains of two genetically edited girls born in China last year may have been changed in ways that enhance cognition and memory, scientists say.
The twins, called Lulu and Nana, reportedly had their genes modified before birth by a Chinese scientific team using the new editing tool CRISPR. The goal was to make the girls immune to infection by HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
Now, new research shows that the same alteration introduced into the girls’ DNA, to a gene called CCR5, not only makes mice smarter but also improves human brain recovery after stroke, and could be linked to greater success in school.
“The answer is likely yes, it did affect their brains,” says Alcino J. Silva, a neurobiologist at the University of California, Los Angeles, whose lab has been uncovering a major new role for the CCR5 gene in memory and the brain’s ability to form new connections.
“The simplest interpretation is that those mutations will probably have an impact on cognitive function in the twins,” says Silva. He says the exact effect on the girls’ cognition is impossible to predict, and “that is why it should not be done.”


He Jiankui poses for the cameras of the Associated Press in the days before his gene-editing experiments became known.
MARK SCHIEFELBEIN | AP
The Chinese team, led by He Jiankui of the Southern University of Science and Technology in Shenzhen, claimed it used CRISPR to delete CCR5 from human embryos, some of which were later used to create pregnancies. HIV requires the CCR5 gene to enter human blood cells.
The experiment has been widely condemned as irresponsible, and He is under investigation in China. News of the first gene-edited babies also inflamed speculation about whether CRISPR technology could one day be used to create super-intelligent humans, perhaps as part of a biotechnology race between the US and China.
There is no evidence that He actually set out to modify the twins’ intelligence. MIT Technology Review contacted scientists studying the effects of CCR5 on cognition, and they say the Chinese scientist never reached out to them, as he did to others from whom he hoped to get scientific advice or support.
  • “As far as I know, we never heard from him,” says Miou Zhou, a professor at the Western University of Health Sciences in California.
Although He never consulted the brain researchers, the Chinese scientist was certainly aware of link between CCR5 and cognition. It was first shown in 2016 by Zhou and Silva, who found that removing the gene from mice significantly improved their memory. The team had looked at more than 140 different genetic alterations to find which made mice smarter.
Silva says because of his research, he sometimes interacts with figures in Silicon Valley and elsewhere who have, in his opinion, an unhealthy interest in designer babies with better brains. That’s why, when the birth of the twins became public on November 25, Silva says he immediately wondered if it had been an attempt at this kind of alteration. “I suddenly realized—Oh, holy shit, they are really serious about this bullshit,” says Silva. “My reaction was visceral repulsion and sadness.”
Whatever He’s true aims, evidence continues to build that CCR5 plays a major role in the brain. Today, for example, Silva and a large team from the US and Israel say they have new proof that CCR5 acts as a suppressor of memories and synaptic connections.
According to their new report, appearing in the journal Cell, people who naturally lack CCR5 recover more quickly from strokes. What’s more, people missing at least one copy of the gene seem to go further in school, suggesting a possible role in everyday intelligence.
“We are the first to report a function of CCR5 in the human brain, and the first to report a higher level of education,” says UCLA biologist S. Thomas Carmichael, who led the new study. He calls the link to educational success “tantalizing” but says it needs further study.
The discoveries about CCR5 are already being followed up in drug trials on both stroke patients and people with HIV, who sometimes suffer memory problems. In those studies, one of which is under way at UCLA, people are being given an anti-HIV drug, Maraviroc, which chemically blocks CCR5, to see if it improves their cognition.
Silva says there is a big difference between trying to correct deficits in such patients and trying to create enhancement. “Cognitive problems are one of the biggest unmet needs in medicine. We need drugs, but it’s another thing to take normal people and muck with the DNA or chemistry to improve them,” he says. “We simply don’t know enough to do it. Nature has struck a very fine balance.”
Just because we shouldn’t alter normal intelligence doesn’t mean we can’t. Silva says the genetic manipulations used to make “smart mice” show not only that it is possible, but that changing CCR5 has particularly big effects.
“Could it be conceivable that at one point in the future we could increase the average IQ of the population? I would not be a scientist if I said no. The work in mice demonstrates the answer may be yes,” he says. “But mice are not people. We simply don’t know what the consequences will be in mucking around. We are not ready for it yet.”