Soul sleep is a false doctrine

[ewq1938]

True. There's also this lesson:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

The disciples misunderstood Christ when he said Lazarus is sleeping. The only way for the disciples to understand what he meant was by correcting their error. Don't make the same mistake the disciples made. Scripture is talking about death, not "sleeping". The dead are not "sleeping", they are dead. Their spirit and soul are in heaven or Hades depending on how they lived their lives and even there no one is asleep.


"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth" is the figure of speech.
"Lazarus is dead" is the literal and plain speech.

This is elementary and should not even be under discussion.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2837: κοιμάω (koimao)

κοιμάω, κοίμω: passive, present κοιμάομαι. κοιμωμαι; perfect κεκοίμημαι (cf. Winer's Grammar, 274 (257)); 1 aorist ἐκοιμήθην; 1 future κοιμηθήσομαι; (akin to κεῖμαι; Curtius, § 45); to cause to sleep, put to sleep (Homer, et al.); metaphorically, to still, calm, quiet, (Homer, Aeschylus, Plato); passive to sleep, fall asleep: properly, Matthew 28:13; Luke 22:45; John 11:12; Acts 12:6; the Sept. for שָׁכַב. metaphorically, and euphemistically equivalent to to die (cf. English to fall asleep): John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 11:30; 1 Corinthians 15:6, 51 (cf. Winers Grammar, 555 (517); Buttmann, 121 (106) note); 2 Peter 3:4; οἱ κοιμώμενοι, κεκοιμημένοι, κοιμηθέντες, equivalent to the dead: Matthew 27:52; 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; with ἐν Χριστῷ added (see ἐν, I. 6 b., p. 211b), 1 Corinthians 15:18; in the same sense Isaiah 14:8; Isaiah 43:17; 1 Kings 11:43; 2 Macc. 12:45; Homer, Iliad 11, 241; Sophocles Electr. 509.

 

[VARob]

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Soul sleep literally has no biblical support.

Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Ps 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

Ps 94:17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.

Ecc 9:
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

 

[ewq1938]

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Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Sleeping in dust means to be dead and buried. Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

This is regarding human body. Job is talking about a person that was alive and then dies. Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

This is regarding a dead body which of course has no memory since brain is dead and rots away. Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

Ps 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

Ps 94:17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.

Almost dwelt in silence is not support for soul sleep.

Ecc 9:
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

? This is about end of death itself. Obviously not related to soul sleep. What are you even thinking by including this?

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

This is talking about resurrection. Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

 

[VARob]

Sleeping in dust means to be dead and buried.

That's right.

Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

When a PERSON is dead and buried, he, the PERSON, is dead. This includes all of him.

This is regarding human body. Job is talking about a person that was alive and then dies. Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

It's regarding a HUMAN. People like to add the word "body" to make it fit their belief.

This is regarding a dead body which of course has no memory since brain is dead and rots away. Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

It's regarding a dead PERSON. A dead PERSON has no memory because he is dead.

Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

Dead people cannot praise God. They are dead.

Almost dwelt in silence is not support for soul sleep.

"Dwelling in silence" is death. If God had not helped, David would have dwelt in silence (been dead).

Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

I think maybe you should read them again. When a person goes to the grave, he knows nothing, has no emotion, no work, no knowledge, no wisdom. When a person goes to the grave he is dead.

Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

People in the pit (the grave) can't hope. They are dead.

? This is about end of death itself. Obviously not related to soul sleep. What are you even thinking by including this?

Death is an enemy, not the gateway to the afterlife. There's a reason people fight to stay alive.

This is talking about resurrection. Nothing there about a soul that is asleep after death.

Resurrection is when people who have died will be made alive again.

 

[ewq1938]

When a PERSON is dead and buried, he, the PERSON, is dead. This includes all of him.

Wrong. Revelation 6 proves the souls of the dead are not dead nor sleeping. Soul death is equally unbiblical as soul sleep. The soul is not immortal, it just does not die when the body dies. The soul can only die if God kills it.

 

[VARob]

Wrong. Revelation 6 proves the souls of the dead are not dead nor sleeping.

Rev 6 was a vision given to John telling him how things will play out during the trib. The dead will remain dead until after the trib.

[quote[Soul death is equally unbiblical as soul sleep.[/quote]
They're the same thing, and death is biblical. When a person dies, he is dead.

The soul is not immortal, it just does not die when the body dies.

Yes, it does. When a person dies, he does not continue to live. He is dead.

The soul can only die if God kills it.

Plenty of people will die in the lake of fire, and they will be gone permanently. They're "souls" will be dead.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 6 was a vision given to John telling him how things will play out during the trib. The dead will remain dead until after the trib.

The souls were not dead, far from it.

When a person dies, he is dead.

No, his body is dead. His soul and spirit remain alive until the resurrection.

Plenty of people will die in the lake of fire, and they will be gone permanently. They're "souls" will be dead.

Yes, this is called the second death. The first death is death of the body, leaving the soul and spirit alive and awake. The second death is death of the body, soul and spirit leaving nothing remaining or alive.

 

[VARob]

Yes, this is called the second death. The first death is death of the body, leaving the soul and spirit alive and awake. The second death is death of the body, soul and spirit leaving nothing remaining or alive.

It's good to agree on that much, at least...

God is not going to eternally torment anyone. Even the devil himself will eventually burn up (Eze 28:18-19).

Later.

 

[ewq1938]

It's good to agree on that much, at least...

God is not going to eternally torment anyone. Even the devil himself will eventually burn up (Eze 28:18-19).

Later.

Yes, we have common ground on that.

 

[TMS]

Wrong. Revelation 6 proves the souls of the dead are not dead nor sleeping. Soul death is equally unbiblical as soul sleep. The soul is not immortal, it just does not die when the body dies. The soul can only die if God kills it.

Prove the definition of a soul from the bible.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Sleeping can mean two things. Literal sleep, or a figure of speech that means to be dead. In various verses, sleeping is being dead not literal sleeping. It is speaking of the human body, not the spirit or soul.

Christ explained that here:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

The disciples misunderstood Christ when he said Lazarus is sleeping. The only way for the disciples to understand what he meant was by correcting their error. Don't make the same mistake the disciples made. Scripture is talking about death, not "sleeping". The dead are not "sleeping", they are dead. Their spirit and soul are in heaven or Hades depending on how they lived their lives and even there no one is asleep.


"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth" is the figure of speech.
"Lazarus is dead" is the literal and plain speech.

There is no consciousness in death. The dead have ceased to be and only in the one or the other of the two resurrections will they be.

"Thou shalt surely die" -- unadulterated Word of God.

Serpent: "Thou shalt NOT surely die, but thou shalt be as gods" - demonic word of the Serpent which forms the foundation of every single pagan religion: man is both immortal and divine.

 

[Runningman]

.

Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Ps 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

Ps 94:17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.

Ecc 9:
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

I believe most of those verses are talking about the body being dead. Sometimes the Bible just says they are sleeping. Isaiah 26:19 is about resurrection.

Check 1 Thessalonians 4:14 about God bringing those who sleep with Christ when Christ returns to resurrect their dead bodies. Also see how the word “rest” translates to repose (repose can mean sleep) in Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 14:13. From what I can see, the soul can sleep after death of the physical body but it isn’t always asleep.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Genesis 2:7 KJV is absolutely clear the Soul aka "whole human being" exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath (Spirit) of Life. At death, the Breath of Life returns to God just as it was when it issued forth, the Body returns to the Earth from whence it was, and the Soul, as a consequence of this dissolution, ceases to be. If you pass electric current through a bulb, light comes into ex,istence, and removal of the current results in the light going out of existence:

Body + Breath of Life = Living Soul
Body - Breath of Life = Dead Soul (ceases to be)

Bulb + current = Light
Bulb - current = No Light

Question:
When current is removed from the bulb, does the Light go on shining imperceptively on another plane of existence or does it cease to be altogether? Likewise, the Living Soul ceases to be and only in the resurrection will we, the Living Soul, the whole human being, the "I", the "ego", the "self", come back into existence in a Second Life either for all eternity, or to die the Second Death in the Lake of Fire.

 

[fredoheaven]

Revelation 6:11 says they will take a rest too.

Rev. 6:11
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So a rest can be sleeping.

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



The slain, the dead, the souls crying with a loud voice does not mean they were sleeping. While “rest” may mean the habit of sleeping, it is not what is intended here in the context. Rest also means freedom from or absence of labour, exertion, or activity of any kind. So there was no SDA “soul-sleep” here.

 

[fredoheaven]

Revelation 14:13
13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The Holy Spirit says in Rev. 14:13 that those who die will have rest. If they are resting then they can sleep. Not having the ability to sleep is not rest. Resting always includes the possibility of sleep by all accounts.

Again this happens to be a no soul-sleep, as the dead only rested from their labours or inactivity. The unsaved dead in verse 11 remains conscious. No SDA soul sleep in the context.

 

[Runningman]

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



The slain, the dead, the souls crying with a loud voice does not mean they were sleeping. While “rest” may mean the habit of sleeping, it is not what is intended here in the context. Rest also means freedom from or absence of labour, exertion, or activity of any kind. So there was no SDA “soul-sleep” here.

What’s your take on verse 11 that says they are to take rest? How do you take that to mean there is no possibility of sleep given the Greek definition of the word they used?

 

[Runningman]

Again this happens to be a no soul-sleep, as the dead only rested from their labours or inactivity. The unsaved dead in verse 11 remains conscious. No SDA soul sleep in the context.

Resting is a general term to describe someone who is taking it easy. If you can say they aren’t sleeping then I can just as easily say they aren’t taking a break or ceasing from labor. You’re cherry-picking what rest means to supplement your critical opinion of souls that sleep.

Given that God brings sleeping souls with Him in 1 Thessalonians 4:14, I’ll have to disagree with you that resting can’t mean sleep. Sleeping is rest.

 

[Runningman]

Also, for the record, there are core tenants to the soul-sleep theology that define it and I don’t agree with all of them. Actually, some of the official stances of soul-sleep are unbiblical, but the general idea that a soul can and does take a rest or sleep is solid Bible; that much is certain.

 

[Runningman]

Again this happens to be a no soul-sleep, as the dead only rested from their labours or inactivity. The unsaved dead in verse 11 remains conscious. No SDA soul sleep in the context.

John 11:13
13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

So the disciples think it’s possible to rest in sleep but you don’t? 🤔

Then when the soul is resting, why can’t it optionally sleep too? Nothing is this thread has ruled out soul sleep.

 

[Absolutely]

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



The slain, the dead, the souls crying with a loud voice does not mean they were sleeping. While “rest” may mean the habit of sleeping, it is not what is intended here in the context. Rest also means freedom from or absence of labour, exertion, or activity of any kind. So there was no SDA “soul-sleep” here.

I was wondering the same thing.
Is RM sda?