Sound Doctrine is not popular today

[PeterJens]

Let me propose a simple reality. The Kingdom of heaven is here, it is within you.
Walk away from it and you walk away from eternity. So why would you walk away from Jesus?

How can people claim so much, eternity, when their believers treat the Lord so lightly. Is it a joke?
It is like saying you will go to a wedding, and then not bothering to get dressed or travelling, getting presents, then finally trying to get in, when everything has been given up.

He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
Luke 13:23-27

How is it the words "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door" means do nothing just maybe believe at some point in your life, that is enough to be worthy of eternity. Like a lottery ticket if you get it sometime you have entered the Kingdom.

Nope. Walk in the Kingdom here today, or find yourself shut out when the door closes.

 

[ladylynn]

I love sound doctrine and it has always been my friend helping through the seemingly contradictions of the Scriptures. Sound doctrine will get you through the toughest of times. God's love is not based on our performance. God is looking at His Son Jesus finished work accomplished when He looks at us. He sees the righteousness or His Son imputed to us when Jesus died on the cross and then when we received Jesus as our solution for our sin. We sinners then became saints. No longer to be called sinners but instead to be called sons., accepted in the Beloved.

The Godhead decided to do this plan of salvation way before we were even created. Our salvation was created in the mind of God and not subject to our failure because it is secure in Christ's finished work when He said "It is finished" The plan He created came to fruition and was completely done. Amen!!

It's not about us and what we do., it's about Jesus and what He did for us. If you are being pointed to yourself and not Jesus you are being pointed in the wrong direction.

 

[KennethC]

So the KJV's wrong, the Greek definitions are wrong, the NIV and NASB are corrupt... so you have no absolute authority to lead you to the truth except for that voice in your head that you call the Holy Spirit. How do you know it's the Holy Spirit, how do you know it's not another spirit that's leading you? Other spirits do try to mislead us you know.

The KJV is closer to the Truth then the others, but it still has its translation errors in it.

I gave you a link in the "why the KJV" thread that show those errors, did you ever go look at it ???

Also again without the Holy Spirit it doesn't matter what version you read, you will not have the proper understanding !!!

Hi Kenneth, Its great to see you have studied Greek and are an expert. Could please parse 'declared' for me using the Greek word as I am struggling.. and also if you could tell how you came to that conclusion.that would help me out greatly.

Many thanks in advance.

Wait a minute I never said I was an expert !!!

I said the Holy Spirit drew me to study Greek and Hebrew, but to go into what scripture are you talking about because there is actually multiple Greek words that carry declared in there definitions and/or usages !!!

You have anaggello, apaggello, dikaioo, deloo, exegeomai, horizo, and homologeo.......

Also if you want to know how I came to the conclusion that Greek definitions have been tampered with I will give you one:


Diakonos

The original Greek defined this as a minister, but the RCC added the definition servant to it in the 4th century and the other positions within the church have been added on since then !!!

This was one of the RCC's attempt to hide the fact that women held roles of a minister !!!

 

[KennethC]

Well, I have never heard any reformed teach that. Which to be honest casts doubt that you actually understood what you said you where 'in'

Well I was in a church growing up that taught that doctrine in the 80's, so I do know what I am talking about !!!

Like I said though there is multiple versions of it out and about now, not just one !!!

Calvin adopted his doctrine from the apostate teachings of Augustine.

 

[KennethC]

That's not what the doctrine of eternal security teaches, neither did Calvin. You left out regeneration and sanctification that goes along with the born again nature.

I was in a church that taught Calvinism and that is exactly how they taught !!!

Calvin taught falling away and departing from the faith was impossible, so did Augustine as he even went further then Calvin and said apostasy was impossible.

The bible completely refutes both stances !!!

 

[KennethC]

I have to go for the night but will leave you with this:

Calvinism Critiqued by a Former Calvinist

 

[KJV1611]

The KJV is closer to the Truth then the others, but it still has its translation errors in it.

I gave you a link in the "why the KJV" thread that show those errors, did you ever go look at it ???

Also again without the Holy Spirit it doesn't matter what version you read, you will not have the proper understanding !!!





Wait a minute I never said I was an expert !!!

I said the Holy Spirit drew me to study Greek and Hebrew, but to go into what scripture are you talking about because there is actually multiple Greek words that carry declared in there definitions and/or usages !!!

You have anaggello, apaggello, dikaioo, deloo, exegeomai, horizo, and homologeo.......

Also if you want to know how I came to the conclusion that Greek definitions have been tampered with I will give you one:


Diakonos

The original Greek defined this as a minister, but the RCC added the definition servant to it in the 4th century and the other positions within the church have been added on since then !!!

This was one of the RCC's attempt to hide the fact that women held roles of a minister !!!

No I don't waste my time with KJV errors, there are none, that's another subject. I want to know whether the Greek says "faith in Christ" or "faith of Christ"?

 

[phil36]

The KJV is closer to the Truth then the others, but it still has its translation errors in it.

I gave you a link in the "why the KJV" thread that show those errors, did you ever go look at it ???

Also again without the Holy Spirit it doesn't matter what version you read, you will not have the proper understanding !!!





Wait a minute I never said I was an expert !!!

I said the Holy Spirit drew me to study Greek and Hebrew, but to go into what scripture are you talking about because there is actually multiple Greek words that carry declared in there definitions and/or usages !!!

You have anaggello, apaggello, dikaioo, deloo, exegeomai, horizo, and homologeo.......

Also if you want to know how I came to the conclusion that Greek definitions have been tampered with I will give you one:


Diakonos

The original Greek defined this as a minister, but the RCC added the definition servant to it in the 4th century and the other positions within the church have been added on since then !!!

This was one of the RCC's attempt to hide the fact that women held roles of a minister !!!

Concerning diakonos/o/ey. your are not correct in all that you have said. Just because some use definitions that are wrong it does not mean that the actual definition has been changed..I am more worried that you claim the Holy Spirit showed you this.

Kennethc] I stay mainly with the KJV and NKJV, but the Holy Spirit has guided me to the original Greek and Hebrew for proper understanding.

Which is why I also know that even some of the Greek definitions and usages have been tampered with over time by the RCC and other so-called scholars !!!

Regarding the other thing.

I say declared, but maybe it could be translated as 'spoken' why do you think some would say 'declared and some translate 'spoken'. its ok I have parsed it now. (VPNSMAP).

 

[ForthAngel]

I was in a church that taught Calvinism and that is exactly how they taught !!!

Calvin taught falling away and departing from the faith was impossible, so did Augustine as he even went further then Calvin and said apostasy was impossible.

The bible completely refutes both stances !!!

John 6
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. [SUP]37[/SUP]All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Can Jesus lose those given to him? He doesn't seem to think so.

John 10
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, [SUP]26 [/SUP]but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. [SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. [SUP]28 [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. [SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to me,[SUP][a][/SUP] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I and the Father are one.”

Are you able to remove yourself from the hand of Jesus and the hand of God the Father?

Titus 3
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, [SUP]5 [/SUP]he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]6 [/SUP]whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, [SUP]7 [/SUP]so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Is his gift and the work of the Holy Spirit in the regenerate man in vain?

God's mercy is greater than our inability to be righteous.

 

[ladylynn]

I was raised and accepted Christ in a very Calvinistic church. We grew up with the "tulip" and we were of theee most religious kind of Christians. We were taught how to walk, dress, read, think. We were taught that if you displeased God He would take you OUT during a communion service. Or cause a heart attach while at work. We were never taught we could do as we pleased and live any way we pleased. No way. If anything, we were taught to fear God and to know that your sin will find you out. We lived in fear and although we were taught we were one of the 'elect' we never enjoyed that place except maybe when we argued with non-elect Christians in our estimation. Our religion made us superior like all man made religions.,and our pride was always polished in an argument.

We never had the joy of our salvation.,and we never had anything to offer unsaved people but a chance to get out of hell. Witnessing to people was never with enthusiasm because our lives were so empty and void of a loving relationship with Jesus.

If someone in the church membership did something wrong the first thing the other church members always thought was "they might never have been one of us to begin with" OR if they thought the person really did get saved they were warned of being zapped in the pew as others have been in times past. All relationships were based on fear and conditional love. When in truth, what God offers in Christ is grace; unearned - unmerited - undeserved love and favor based on Jesus not on our performance.

When you get a hold of what grace means, you begin to experience the JOY of your salvation knowing it is a gift that keeps on giving. Jesus didn't just get the ball rolling for us so we could do the rest., He keeps it going until the end. He is the Author AND finisher of our faith. We did not author our faith nor will we finish it.

 

[KJV1611]

Well if you read what was in what I posted you would see that "of" would be the better translation but again..there is no greek word there for "of" or "in"...in Gal 2:20

No there had to be a Greek word for "of" or "in" or else the verse is meaningless. Maybe scholars don't know as much about the Greek language as we thought.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think the reality is that the greek language is not like our native English language. The Lord had it all done in greek ( for the NT ) for a purpose...there is no "of" or "in" word in gal 2;20...just the genitive case as I explained...the genitive case is one of possession...so "of" would be the better fit here IMO.

Here is the link for the verse in greek all parsed out..it's a good link for looking at scripture in the greek...you can at the top put in any verse and it will come up...try it ..it'll be a blessing to your studying of the scriptures

Galatians 2:20 Interlinear: with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh -- in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me;

No there had to be a Greek word for "of" or "in" or else the verse is meaningless. Maybe scholars don't know as much about the Greek language as we thought.

 

[KJV1611]

I think the reality is that the greek language is not like our native English language. The Lord had it all done in greek ( for the NT ) for a purpose...there is no "of" or "in" word in gal 2;20...just the genitive case as I explained...the genitive case is one of possession...so "of" would be the better fit here IMO.

Here is the link for the verse in greek all parsed out..it's a good link for looking at scripture in the greek...you can at the top put in any verse and it will come up...try it ..it'll be a blessing to your studying of the scriptures

Galatians 2:20 Interlinear: with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh -- in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me;

Are you saying that there's no way that we as English speakers can know for sure what Romans 3:22 says?

 

[roaringkitten]

My biggest complaint with churches I have visited thus far and the messages I have received while there are that the whole activity seems to be more about getting people in the pews than it does to actually share the Gospel with them.

Now, I know I'm a weird guy so what works for me probably wouldn't work for someone else but:

If a fire-and-brimstone preacher was to shake an old finger at me and tell me I was wallowing in sin and needed to immediately repent and beg Jesus for his saving grace...that would go a lot farther with me than a flabby handshake and a chocolate chip cookie and tepid coffee.

I used to be involved in some churches with that mentality before myself. They only cared about getting as many people to fill the church services as they thought quantity was the most important thing. For years I would go out in the neighborhoods and teach the Bible house to house, taking my time to feed the houses spiritually, but the church got irritated I wasn't producing "numbers" and actually tried to push me away from those houses and get me to cook up more numbers of people to go to church! It was about money money money...because their sponsors needed to see "results" in order to continue funding the church.

I don't see in the Word where the Bible tells Christians to build buildings, they ought to be building people! That is why in Acts you see many examples of house churches, and much ministry traveling. The gospel is sadly not being preached today in many churches, but getting watered down.

The preaching of Peter in Acts 2 pricked the heart of the hearers. Today many people just want to be entertained! We are seeing the fruit of an apostate society today. Sound doctrine is also the most attacked today, and it's time that more men practice Jude 3!

 

[Lost_sheep]

I wish there were more people in my area that are in my position - questioning believers yet not-quite-Christians and that we could sit down together for talk and for study. As it is, I can get told a million times that I need to accept Jesus, or I can get people looking down their nose at me because I am "one of THOSE" people. Or, I can get like I said before, a real watered down "welcome to our church, oh gee you like listening to TOOL, hey let me be your buddy so you'll come back next week".

Huge issue I see around here is the gigantic age gap in church. It might not be this way all over, but I see primarily the elderly and the young families in church. I don't see many middle aged folks, and I know I'm the only military veteran/ex-con that has showed up at some of the services at some of the churches. Maybe it's just my little area here in Iowa...I don't know. Regardless, it's hard to find like-minded folks to sit down and talk to and have fellowship with. Besides, there aren't a whole lot of folks that are willing to sit down with a heavily tattooed, bearded bridge troll like me and talk about God.

 

[John146]

[h=1]The Holy Spirit lead me to these verses to justify the use of the word "of".

Romans 3:22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:[/h][h=1]Ephesians 3:12In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.[/h][h=1]Revelation 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[/h]

 

[Willie-T]

I wish there were more people in my area that are in my position - questioning believers yet not-quite-Christians and that we could sit down together for talk and for study. As it is, I can get told a million times that I need to accept Jesus, or I can get people looking down their nose at me because I am "one of THOSE" people. Or, I can get like I said before, a real watered down "welcome to our church, oh gee you like listening to TOOL, hey let me be your buddy so you'll come back next week".

Huge issue I see around here is the gigantic age gap in church. It might not be this way all over, but I see primarily the elderly and the young families in church. I don't see many middle aged folks, and I know I'm the only military veteran/ex-con that has showed up at some of the services at some of the churches. Maybe it's just my little area here in Iowa...I don't know. Regardless, it's hard to find like-minded folks to sit down and talk to and have fellowship with. Besides, there aren't a whole lot of folks that are willing to sit down with a heavily tattooed, bearded bridge troll like me and talk about God.

I refer you, again, to the map I sent.

 

[phil36]

I think the reality is that the greek language is not like our native English language. The Lord had it all done in greek ( for the NT ) for a purpose...there is no "of" or "in" word in gal 2;20...just the genitive case as I explained...the genitive case is one of possession...so "of" would be the better fit here IMO.

Here is the link for the verse in greek all parsed out..it's a good link for looking at scripture in the greek...you can at the top put in any verse and it will come up...try it ..it'll be a blessing to your studying of the scriptures

Galatians 2:20 Interlinear: with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh -- in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me;

ἐν πίστει and (Kai) τῇ τοῦ make a huge difference to this sentence. Have a read of UBS text. Personally I'l go with 'in'. which gives you the proper meaning, of course it may well be 'through' depending on that τῇ

 

[coby]

I wish there were more people in my area that are in my position - questioning believers yet not-quite-Christians and that we could sit down together for talk and for study. As it is, I can get told a million times that I need to accept Jesus, or I can get people looking down their nose at me because I am "one of THOSE" people. Or, I can get like I said before, a real watered down "welcome to our church, oh gee you like listening to TOOL, hey let me be your buddy so you'll come back next week".

Huge issue I see around here is the gigantic age gap in church. It might not be this way all over, but I see primarily the elderly and the young families in church. I don't see many middle aged folks, and I know I'm the only military veteran/ex-con that has showed up at some of the services at some of the churches. Maybe it's just my little area here in Iowa...I don't know. Regardless, it's hard to find like-minded folks to sit down and talk to and have fellowship with. Besides, there aren't a whole lot of folks that are willing to sit down with a heavily tattooed, bearded bridge troll like me and talk about God.

An Alpha course maybe?
https://m.facebook.com/AlphaIowa/

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I wish there were more people in my area that are in my position - questioning believers yet not-quite-Christians and that we could sit down together for talk and for study. As it is, I can get told a million times that I need to accept Jesus, or I can get people looking down their nose at me because I am "one of THOSE" people. Or, I can get like I said before, a real watered down "welcome to our church, oh gee you like listening to TOOL, hey let me be your buddy so you'll come back next week".

Huge issue I see around here is the gigantic age gap in church. It might not be this way all over, but I see primarily the elderly and the young families in church. I don't see many middle aged folks, and I know I'm the only military veteran/ex-con that has showed up at some of the services at some of the churches. Maybe it's just my little area here in Iowa...I don't know. Regardless, it's hard to find like-minded folks to sit down and talk to and have fellowship with. Besides, there aren't a whole lot of folks that are willing to sit down with a heavily tattooed, bearded bridge troll like me and talk about God.

Have you tried a biker or cowboy church yet?