Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

[mark54]

I Christ is the only truly begotten Son of God, completely Holy he died for our sins, there is no way to the Father but by the son, Christ is a true reflection of the person of the Father, the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Christ, he reigns now in Heaven and on earth for all things have been put under his feet by the Father
I hope that is enough of an explanation EG

And in line with biblical theology I believe Christ to be the person he requires us to believe he is to inherit eternal ife.

You do not believe the above answers you EG?

Could anytone fit the description I have given? I don't believe so

Christ is my one and only righteousness for Heaven he died for my sins on the cross.
How is the above not answering your question?
Do you want a biological profile of Christ, alas, I cannot give it. My conviction comes from the Spirit within me, it is not a theological exercise

I would still, genuinely like your opinions as to the original post you responded to, as to which of the points I raised you agreed with or disagreed with, would you do that for a brother?

 

[Elin]

If you set your mind on the your flesh, that is death. You are to die to the flesh

The text states "have their minds set," not "set their minds."

Their minds have been set by their unregenerate nature.

That mind which is set by the unregenerate nature is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless (Ro 8:7).

The hostile mind which has been set by the unregenerate nature cannot please God (Ro 8:8).

Those who are born again have their minds set by rebirth of the Holy Spirit.

It's not about our setting our own minds,
but about our minds being set by either our unregenerate nature, or our regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

 

[zone]

There is a difference. A Christian can believe a lie being told, yet his faith in Christ is what saves him.

Someone can believe that Christ died for a select few = a false believe

I am persuaded that Jesus is the Son sent from God and everything that speaks of = a saving faith

One can even believe they can speak mockery, slander, belittlement, distaste, disharmony and still yet believe their faith shall save them.

chris, i am not called to have 'harmony' with pelagianism and other miscellaneous untruths, okay?
you do what you like.

as for this:

"Someone can believe that Christ died for a select few = a false believe"

i guess you are a universalist then.
bye now.

 

[zone]

The text states "have their minds set," not "set their minds."

Their minds have been set by their unregenerate nature.

That mind which is set by the unregenerate nature is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless (Ro 8:7).

The hostile mind which has been set by the unregenerate nature cannot please God (Ro 8:8).

Those who are born again have their minds set by rebirth of the Holy Spirit.

It's not about our setting our own minds,
but about our minds being set by either our unregenerate nature, or our regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God


and yet there will be reams and reams of attempts to make this say something other than what it says.

 

[GreenNnice]

ohzone, sometimes, you, seriously, not being mean, would just be best to SHUT UP before you spout off, universally, I know there are those who will back you, but your MOUTH sooo often gets you in trouble.

Also, Elin, can fight her own battles (not that it's a battle), I nic everyone, ohzone, right , and, I am NOT condescending in my naming people, that I know of anyway, someone wants to call me out, FINE, just be nice to green about it
------

Moving on, nilE, milady, I see no reason why God does not give unregenerate man faith. How else can unregenerate (nonbeliever) man believe in Christ ? Seems unfair really. We MUST have faith in Him, and, NOT just for continued following His leading, as cfultz points out, and, I do too "As many as are led by the spirit of God are called sons of God."

Indeed, you like to mock, too, ohzone, I REALLY AM getting on you, the Lord leads, I hope and pray, but, YES! , I AM ! ohzone, try and be a little less accusatory is my BEST advice this morning for you. Truly, pray, let the Lord lead you to right Scripture if you are not wanting led by the Spirit . Idk, it works for me and Scripture from He tells me it WILL work that way


So, all said in love, and, OH, yes, markymark, INDEED! We believe different then in who is the 'visible image of the invisisble God.' For me, it is simple, there is ONE God. It is He who made Me, It is He who made the visible Jesus, it is He who is in Me called the 'Holy One.' It's OK, too, I used to believe in Jesus being different from God, all growing up, I think, but, the massive Scripture amounts show me differently, I just 'realize' God is a little bit different than you, I believe Jesus CAN sit at the right hand of God and it can be God, that God sent Jesus, His Son to Earth, to show us The Way to Him, and, Jesus MUST be His own person of the Godhead--just like the Holy Spirit--or fully understanding the man Jesus who is God is an impossibility , for me, anyway. God bless, and, like you said, as long as you believe in Christ's grace through faith, YOU ARE SAVED, just as cee said, a belief in Christ is WHAT saves you. Who (saves you), too

 

[cfultz3]

chris, i am not called to have 'harmony' with pelagianism and other miscellaneous untruths, okay?
you do what you like.

as for this:

"Someone can believe that Christ died for a select few = a false believe"

i guess you are a universalist then.
bye now.

Yet, there is not one fault in your believe system? Have you perfected religion? Come now, certainly those of Christ are to be led of the Spirit? Certainly, they who believe in a coming Kingdom, true or not, are to be tossed aside as a brother or sister because they differ? What is to be said of one who mocks, belittle those who differ in their understanding of Revelation?

Yet, you will have people to believe that you hold the only Truth and this is proclaimed by the words you speak in an un-Spirit led haste to ridicule, mock, smear those who dare to stand against you?

NEWSFLASH: Love does not speak the way you do.

 

[zone]

sometimes, you, seriously, not being mean, would just be best to SHUT UP before you spout off, universally, I know there are those who will back you, but your MOUTH sooo often gets you in trouble.

back at ya green.

 

[mark54]

Anyone who states a person must believe Christ is the one true God Himself unto salvation DOES NOT undersdand the basics of the Christian faith, and in effect refuses to accept the plain words of Christ as to the reqwuirement of belief for salvation
Though undoubtedly they will give man made theological opinions to get round such obvious truth. Such is the way of those led of the natural mind of man and not the Holy Spirit in much of their understanding

 

[jimmydiggs]

ohzone, sometimes, you, seriously, not being mean, would just be best to SHUT UP before you spout off, universally, I know there are those who will back you, but your MOUTH sooo often gets you in trouble.

Everyone runs their mouths at times, this is true. I just don't care for the fact that you run yours, but refuse to confess it.

 

[zone]

Yet, there is not one fault in your believe system? Have you perfected religion? Come now, certainly those of Christ are to be led of the Spirit? Certainly, they who believe in a coming Kingdom, true or not, are to be tossed aside as a brother or sister because they differ?

don't be ridiculous.

..........

if i am to take ppl at their word they have studied these things for 30 or 35 years and they still claim God is a racist who is even today working to have christians murdered over dirt, i'll break fellowship if my convictions require it.

for me at some point it becomes another gospel and another christ.
depending on how long they teach it.

that has nothing to do with you. unless you also believe in that other gospel.
why are you getting involved, chris?
are you calling out your brother(s) who mock? i needn't mention a name.

do you think your rebukes mean much to me, given your own theology?
no, i tell you. it doesn't. sorry about that

Yet, you will have people to believe that you hold the only Truth and this is proclaimed by the words you speak in an un-Spirit led haste to ridicule, mock, smear those who dare to stand against you?

NEWSFLASH: Love does not speak the way you do.

newsflash:
thanks for your counsel.
bye now.

 

[GreenNnice]

no, i do no no hold to selective truth, ohzone, i accept all faiths, as long as they are based in Christ. All the doctrine stuff is just that, 'doctrine.' The one thing one must believe in is not a thing, it is a One, and, it is Jesus Christ as Lord, as God set things up, along with the power of His Holy Spirit seed becoming His only begotten Son. That is the universal truth of salvation, ohzone. Again, not mad at you, just upset you hurl your hate of others that don't believe in your said understanding of God's truth, which is the SAME truth for all who 'believe in His name,' which we are to do, as 1 John 12-13 states. Yes, that is the simple truth, it is not a big we know God does whatever, in fact, we can't lknow, I do,too, love your zeal for your lutheran faith. AWESOME !! For faith MUST be following after belief. It MUST !! And, not just any faith but 'faith in Him.' Phil. 3: 8-9 For without FAITH IN HIM, Scripture is clear, we do not 'gain Christ.'

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall now perish but have everlasting life.'

To me, this is so telling, of truth, of freewill determinisim, of God not saying something that is not understandable, of no confusion. He challenges ANYONE , IF you will believe in Me you WILL have eternal life. That is DETERMINED, of course, through belief that is [HOUSED] in faith. b And, it's not 'saving faith' or any other name for the faith, it's just 'faith,' there is no such thing as saving faith, there is simply faith that saves and we are given a 'measure of faith,' EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING on planet Earth, this is HIS SOVEREIGN WILL, and, moral man who does not accept Christ and become understanding of 'spiritual things' will NOT ever have faith in believing in God even though, you better BELIEVE IT ! God has given unregenerate man FAITH , too

 

[cfultz3]

The text states "have their minds set," not "set their minds."

Their minds have been set by their unregenerate nature.

That mind which is set by the unregenerate nature is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless (Ro 8:7).

The hostile mind which has been set by the unregenerate nature cannot please God (Ro 8:8).

Those who are born again have their minds set by rebirth of the Holy Spirit.

It's not about our setting our own minds,
but about our minds being set by either our unregenerate nature, or our regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

I should have went to Scripture before I responded and that is my fault. Here, we go, notice how 'set' means:

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Minded =
G5427
φρόνημα
phronēma
fron'-ay-mah
From G5426; (mental) inclination or purpose: - (be, + be carnally, + be spiritually) mind (-ed).

So, they who have set their mind (purposed, are inclined) to be carnal, death awaits. They who have set their mind to be spiritual, life and peace awaits.

It would make sense that those who desire to be in the flesh (children of wrath) are not spiritual (children of God). Thank you for that correction

 

[zone]

Anyone who states a person must believe Christ is the one true God Himself.......DOES NOT undersdand the basics of the Christian faith.....

Such is the way of those led of the natural mind of man and not the Holy Spirit in much of their understanding

Jesus accepts worship from Angels:: Heb 1:6
Angels should not be worshipped, only God: Rev 19:10; 22:8-9
Men should not be worshipped, only God: Acts 10:26

do you worship Jesus while claiming He is not God?

 

[zone]

and we are given a 'measure of faith,' EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING on planet Earth, this is HIS SOVEREIGN WILL, and, moral man who does not accept Christ and become understanding of 'spiritual things' will NOT ever .....

please document where every single unregenerate person is given a measure of faith in Christ.

 

[cfultz3]

don't be ridiculous.

..........

if i am to take ppl at their word they have studied these things for 30 or 35 years and they still claim God is a racist who is even today working to have christians murdered over dirt, i'll break fellowship if my convictions require it.

for me at some point it becomes another gospel and another christ.
depending on how long they teach it.

that has nothing to do with you. unless you also believe in that other gospel.
why are you getting involved, chris?
are you calling out your brother(s) who mock? i needn't mention a name.

do you think your rebukes mean much to me, given your own theology?
no, i tell you. it doesn't. sorry about that



newsflash:
thanks for your counsel.
bye now.

I am calling out one who speaks disdain and yet, says she loves. If love is portrayed in your words, then love has been redefined and is called something it is not.

You divide by man's isms. Scripture divides by one's proven fruits.

 

[tribesman]

please document where every single unregenerate person is given a measure of faith in Christ.

...and where they receive "prevenient grace".

 

[OceanGrl]

Mark,

Where do the scriptures say we are to ask Jesus into our heart to be saved? Where does the Bible record that the thief on the cross said the sinners prayer? Show me one time Jesus ever said to ask Him into our hearts. Show me where the Bible even hints that the sinner's prayer is even Biblical. We are told to BELIEVE,REPENT AND OBEY. Belief MUST come first not afterwards because without faith we can NOT please God,even repentance is meaningless without faith.

Are you aware that the Mormons believe what you said above? What is it that makes the difference then between true faith and unbelief in that case?

I think the sinners prayer is just a condensed way to lead a person to salvation.

Romans 10:9-13
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced." 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For "Everyone who calls on the name of The Lord will be saved."

 

[mark54]

Personally I don't know why some of you people take seriously anyone who refuses to accept the words of Christ when he walked this earth unto salvation. There is spirit led truth, and man made truth, and never the twain shall meet.
For soime, sadly it is just a theological exercise of much, they are unable to grasp the spiritual reality. But I will repeat what I wrote on another thread
In over 30 years of going to church(various churches) I never once heared preached a sermon on Rom6:14, the core of Paul's Gospel of grace Christ sent him to preach, or any other text on it either
And now, after frequenting internet websites, I find the ministers in churches in the UK(i WON'T SPEAKOF CHURCHES IN THE us I have never been to one) refuse to plainly state from the pulpit their core salvific belief and the conserquences of getting it wrong
So some of you on the internet, have made it plain the vast majority of ministers in your churches are not up to the job and should be thrown out of the pulpit
For everyone knows it is a ministers responsibility to plainly and clearly preach any salvific belief from the pulpit and the consequences of getting it wrong

But I know, you are so fanatical in your man made beliefs you will just bury your head in the sand, or put your fingers in your ears, shake your heards and cry out
'I don't want to hear it.'

I repeat the mind of man not led by the Spirit will always contradict the words of Christ who spoke the words of God on this earth, for they tyhink they have in their wisdom extrapopolated scripture/read up and believed on theologians and scholars to the point they can refuser to accept the plain requirements of Christ unto salvation

This is folly and spiritual immaturity at a level I have never witnessed in any church I have ever been to, but the internet sure does allow some who seem to have little clue to air their opinions
And evidently thgese people believe theyt are wiser, and more true to correct sdcotrine than are their ministers in most cases from the pulpit

It comes to one word, or maybe three

PRIDE, VANITY, EGO

 

[GreenNnice]

The text states "have their minds set," not "set their minds."

Their minds have been set by their unregenerate nature.

"That mind which is set by the unregenerate nature is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless." (Ro 8:7).

The hostile mind which has been set by the unregenerate nature cannot please God (Ro 8:8).

Those who are born again have their minds set by rebirth of the Holy Spirit.

It's not about our setting our own minds,
but about our minds being set by either our unregenerate nature, or our regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

nilE: "That mind which is set by the unregenerate nature is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless." (Ro 8:7).

The hostile mind which has been set by the unregenerate nature cannot please God (Ro 8:8).

Indeed, man cannot please God, nilE, but God 'resets' his mind, in His timing, drawing him near to Him, through whatever means and channel He pleases, to SHOW Himself to unregenerate, degenerate man, who is NO good, until He takes on God for His righteousness. This 'taking on' starts with belief but then MUST germinate to 'faith,' and, moreover, clearly speaking, it must become 'faith in Him.'
Belief MUST GROW legs


THAT is right, nilE, God is one who has man's carnal mind SET on 'faith,' which God measures to man, to EVERY MAN, no one's left behind, that none should perish. God is just. We are given 'faith' by God for a whole lot more than just believing in the rebirth of the Holy Spirit, nilE. MAN, the degenerate ! , he cannot BELIEVE in God on His own, He needs God's help and God, therefore, gives man a 'measure of faith.' This faith is what leads to the regeneration of man, I need to find Scripture, I know, for this told you. And, good news ! , I will , the Lord leads, and, anyone else reading this said 'faith' stuff want to help ohzone, nilE, and, whoever else needs help understanding 'faith' and its power in a believer's life AND an unbeliever's life, go for it, I got to go, anyway, for a while, ya know, well, uh, I guess, umm, you don't know, do you? Well, ya do now

 

[zone]

I am calling out one who speaks disdain and yet, says she loves. If love is portrayed in your words, then love has been redefined and is called something it is not.

You divide by man's isms. Scripture divides by one's proven fruits.

you can call all you want.
it really means nothing to me chris. okay?

i divide by isms?
no dear...as you continue to post, you post your own isms.
it is those isms (though you claim you have none - perhaps you're making it up as you go? i don't know) which eventually cause me to decide with whom i fellowship.

if someone is wantonly fellowshipping with arians, for example, over time i must decide with whom i will walk and be in agreement.

that's not up to you.
that is up to me.
okay?

thanks anyways.