Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
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Like I keep telling you, you haven't got any scripture, none at all to back up your extra biblical demands for salvation.
If I produce two, that is two more than you can produce, I can't be boherred to write anymore out, but I promise I will Rick, if you can prioduce JUST ONE verse of scripture to back up your extra biblical demands
Me thinks those verses do apply to you
After all, you believe a person stands condemned on the day of judgeemnt for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth
You also believe nearly all the mninisters in Trinitarian churches should not be ministers for they do not plainly state from the pulpit what to you is salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong
The internet sure does give voice to some fanatics me thinks who have giant egos
If I produce two, that is two more than you can produce, I can't be boherred to write anymore out, but I promise I will Rick, if you can prioduce JUST ONE verse of scripture to back up your extra biblical demands
Me thinks those verses do apply to you
After all, you believe a person stands condemned on the day of judgeemnt for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth
You also believe nearly all the mninisters in Trinitarian churches should not be ministers for they do not plainly state from the pulpit what to you is salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong
The internet sure does give voice to some fanatics me thinks who have giant egos
John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made
ArianMark54 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was not God.
He was created in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made, except Jesus the Word Himself.
God created Jesus The Word, then Jesus the Word created everything else.
You are lost in a world of head theology, but please produce the post where I have stated you cannot be/are not a Christian.
This is ridiculous, you are so, so desperate aren't you.
And yet, you must believe I am condemned for to you a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation.
You know what, you have badly let yourself down by joinnig this discussion
On another website I discussed this subject, as on here only a few came and made the demands you do. And it was always the same, the spiritually immature who thought they knew much made the pronouncements you have here. The mature Christians never got involved in this debate, they never made extra biblical demands unto salvation.
This is ridiculous, you are so, so desperate aren't you.
And yet, you must believe I am condemned for to you a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation.
You know what, you have badly let yourself down by joinnig this discussion
On another website I discussed this subject, as on here only a few came and made the demands you do. And it was always the same, the spiritually immature who thought they knew much made the pronouncements you have here. The mature Christians never got involved in this debate, they never made extra biblical demands unto salvation.
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Mark, I gave you over thirty scriptures testifying to the Godhood of Jesus Christ.
So let's just let our words, and thoughts simmer shall we?
Let us bow our knees to the final judgement of God almighty in the last day, (because we will anyway).
I will answer to you then, as we will both answer to Jesus.
Be well and be blessed until then..........
So let's just let our words, and thoughts simmer shall we?
Let us bow our knees to the final judgement of God almighty in the last day, (because we will anyway).
I will answer to you then, as we will both answer to Jesus.
Be well and be blessed until then..........
awww....poor mark the arian.
spends his whole life pestering people who actually do believe Jesus is God,
claiming they make demands.
oh it's just so unfair, mark! how do you manage?
just think of what the world would be like for you if you didn't have to pester Trinitarians about their beliefs and make demands on them to dumb down Theology.
sigh. it's a tough row to hoe, but someone has to carry Arius' torch.
spends his whole life pestering people who actually do believe Jesus is God,
claiming they make demands.
oh it's just so unfair, mark! how do you manage?
just think of what the world would be like for you if you didn't have to pester Trinitarians about their beliefs and make demands on them to dumb down Theology.
sigh. it's a tough row to hoe, but someone has to carry Arius' torch.
Well I hope you will be blessed too, but like I told you, if this were a discussion as to 'Is Jesus the one true God Himself, I would have prodiced much more plain scripture than I have, but it is not. It is about what a person must believe to inherit eterrfnal life. You have not given me one scripture from the entire bible to support your extra biblical demands for salvation, so why am I obligated to put anymorre scripture before you. If I give you two verses of scripture, that is two more than youi can give me
I repeat, as you do not understand the basics of the Christian faith, by believing a person will stand condemnd on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth, I don't think you are likely to have much true understanding of many bible verses
If you can't understand the milk, how can you move onto the meat?
I repeat, as you do not understand the basics of the Christian faith, by believing a person will stand condemnd on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth, I don't think you are likely to have much true understanding of many bible verses
If you can't understand the milk, how can you move onto the meat?
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*cough*
but....you're just a simple non-head knowledgy type guy
you wouldn't need any meat.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
how much plainer can it get?
oh i know....that's so demanding!
to actually have to read even one passage which makes it explicitly clear JESUS CHRIST IS GOD.
a Trinity? how demanding.
no, it's easier to twist it all to say:
ArianMark54 1:16
For by him all things were NOT created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were NOT created through him and for him. Because he himself had to be created. So all doesn't mean all. Paul was wrong and he made unbiblical demands.
but....you're just a simple non-head knowledgy type guy
you wouldn't need any meat.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
how much plainer can it get?
oh i know....that's so demanding!
to actually have to read even one passage which makes it explicitly clear JESUS CHRIST IS GOD.
a Trinity? how demanding.
no, it's easier to twist it all to say:
ArianMark54 1:16
For by him all things were NOT created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were NOT created through him and for him. Because he himself had to be created. So all doesn't mean all. Paul was wrong and he made unbiblical demands.
*cough*
but....you're just a simple non-head knowledgy type guy
you wouldn't need any meat.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
how much plainer can it get?
oh i know....that's so demanding!
to actually have to read even one passage which makes it explicitly clear JESUS CHRIST IS GOD.
a Trinity? how demanding.
no, it's easier to twist it all to say:
ArianMark54 1:16
For by him all things were NOT created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were NOT created through him and for him. Because he himself had to be created. So all doesn't mean all. Paul was wrong and he made unbiblical demands.
but....you're just a simple non-head knowledgy type guy
you wouldn't need any meat.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
how much plainer can it get?
oh i know....that's so demanding!
to actually have to read even one passage which makes it explicitly clear JESUS CHRIST IS GOD.
a Trinity? how demanding.
no, it's easier to twist it all to say:
ArianMark54 1:16
For by him all things were NOT created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were NOT created through him and for him. Because he himself had to be created. So all doesn't mean all. Paul was wrong and he made unbiblical demands.
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live
1Cor8:6
Like I told you Zone, you are babe in the faith, you are dependant on scholars and theologians to learn, Christians should not have to rely on them to learn of the faith
You theoplogised youerself to a place of absurdity, you actually believe a person will stand condemned on the day of judgement for standing on the palin words of Christ when he walked this earth. Such immaturity I have never witnessed in the flesh in 30 years of going to church
BTW
Do you agree with Rick that nearly all of the ministers in the Trinitarian churches should not be ministers, on account of them not plainy preaching from the pulpit the truth you prclaim on the internet, just wondered?
A
John 1:1, 14, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...[SUP]14[/SUP]And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 20:28-29, "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" [SUP]29[/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.'"
John 20:28-29, "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" [SUP]29[/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.'"
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
Read more: Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?
Read more: Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?
A
John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'"
John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.
"When Jesus said 'I and the Father are one' didn't He just mean they are of one accord, they are merely like-minded?" Considering the overall content of the Bible, this cannot be:
The Greek word he used, heis, is the word for the number one. It is a reference to the Shema, the core tenet of Judaism, "Sh'ma, Yisrael, Adonai Eloheynu Adonai echad," which, using Christian terminology is, "Hear, O Israel, Jehovah is our God. Jehovah is one."
John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 17:10 [Speaking to the Father] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
Note: "Son of Man" was a term referring to the expected Messiah.
Mark 14:61b-62 [61b] Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" [62] "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Luke 22:66-70 [66] At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. [67] "If you are the Christ, " they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, [68] and if I asked you, you would not answer. [69] But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." [70] They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Daniel 7:13-14 [13] "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. [14] He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Jesus clearly and repeatedly indicated that He is not the one who "calls the shots".
John 14:31 the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
John 7:16 Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me."
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me." John 17:3-12 [3] Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. [4] I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. [5] And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. [6] I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. [7] Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. [8] For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. [9] I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. [10] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. [11] I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one. [12] While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'"
John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.
"When Jesus said 'I and the Father are one' didn't He just mean they are of one accord, they are merely like-minded?" Considering the overall content of the Bible, this cannot be:
The Greek word he used, heis, is the word for the number one. It is a reference to the Shema, the core tenet of Judaism, "Sh'ma, Yisrael, Adonai Eloheynu Adonai echad," which, using Christian terminology is, "Hear, O Israel, Jehovah is our God. Jehovah is one."
John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 17:10 [Speaking to the Father] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
Note: "Son of Man" was a term referring to the expected Messiah.
Mark 14:61b-62 [61b] Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" [62] "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Luke 22:66-70 [66] At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. [67] "If you are the Christ, " they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, [68] and if I asked you, you would not answer. [69] But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." [70] They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Daniel 7:13-14 [13] "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. [14] He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Jesus clearly and repeatedly indicated that He is not the one who "calls the shots".
John 14:31 the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
John 7:16 Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me."
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me." John 17:3-12 [3] Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. [4] I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. [5] And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. [6] I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. [7] Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. [8] For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. [9] I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. [10] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. [11] I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one. [12] While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.