Speaking in Tongues Controversy
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We will not find anywhere in the Bible where anyone was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost. In every baptism that an actual baptism was taking place, they were all done in Jesus name.
In Matthew 28;19 Jesus was telling them what to do ... not what to say. Unfortunately however, today most do not follow the prescribed formula for water baptism. Let me qualify that statement, if I told my son to go to the store and buy groceries, and he so tells the clerk "I want to buy groceries" - then he is only repeating what I told him to do. The apostles, on the other hand, have gone out and fulfilled the command, whereas today's church only repeats the command.
A Biblical baptism is exactly how peter described it, full immersion (The word for baptize is baptizo, meaning to dip, plunge, submerge), and in Jesus name, the only name by which we are saved.
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.[/QUOTE]
It's not the 'name' Jesus - it's the attributes given to that name: Hebrews were named after who they were - Jacob was a deceiver - there are hebrew names that mean worthless - worthless became one of david's might men 1 Samuel. They didn't name people because it was phonetically pleasing to the ear - like Abby - sounds nice
It's who Jesus is that we baptize, that we get saved by, His work, His death, His burial, His ressurection, His character. There are people who use Jesus' name like magic, the same people who say just believe - it's like abracadabra to them
In Matthew 28;19 Jesus was telling them what to do ... not what to say. Unfortunately however, today most do not follow the prescribed formula for water baptism. Let me qualify that statement, if I told my son to go to the store and buy groceries, and he so tells the clerk "I want to buy groceries" - then he is only repeating what I told him to do. The apostles, on the other hand, have gone out and fulfilled the command, whereas today's church only repeats the command.
A Biblical baptism is exactly how peter described it, full immersion (The word for baptize is baptizo, meaning to dip, plunge, submerge), and in Jesus name, the only name by which we are saved.
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.[/QUOTE]
It's not the 'name' Jesus - it's the attributes given to that name: Hebrews were named after who they were - Jacob was a deceiver - there are hebrew names that mean worthless - worthless became one of david's might men 1 Samuel. They didn't name people because it was phonetically pleasing to the ear - like Abby - sounds nice
It's who Jesus is that we baptize, that we get saved by, His work, His death, His burial, His ressurection, His character. There are people who use Jesus' name like magic, the same people who say just believe - it's like abracadabra to them
[/QUOTE]
It's not the 'name' Jesus - it's the attributes given to that name: Hebrews were named after who they were - Jacob was a deceiver - there are hebrew names that mean worthless - worthless became one of david's might men 1 Samuel. They didn't name people because it was phonetically pleasing to the ear - like Abby - sounds nice
It's who Jesus is that we baptize, that we get saved by, His work, His death, His burial, His ressurection, His character. There are people who use Jesus' name like magic, the same people who say just believe - it's like abracadabra to them[/QUOTE]
sorry only this part is mine
It's not the 'name' Jesus - it's the attributes given to that name: Hebrews were named after who they were - Jacob was a deceiver - there are hebrew names that mean worthless - worthless became one of david's might men 1 Samuel. They didn't name people because it was phonetically pleasing to the ear - like Abby - sounds nice
It's who Jesus is that we baptize, that we get saved by, His work, His death, His burial, His ressurection, His character. There are people who use Jesus' name like magic, the same people who say just believe - it's like abracadabra to them[/QUOTE]
sorry only this part is mine
Yeah, and what about the laying on of hands?
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
T
I so dislike the term slain in the Spirit. The Spirit raised Christ from the dead and does not slay anyone.
I have been overcome by the power of God to the point I was on my knees and ended up completely prostrate.
I think what we must understand is that just because we see foolishness and goofy things and we discern them correctly not to be part of a true move of the Spirit, does not mean we cannot simply disregard it all as false.
There are countless examples in the Bible of people, priests and worshipers who were unable to stand before the presence of the Spirit of God [2 Chron 5.13-14]
My opinion is that for Christians to dismiss everything they see is dangerous. I also believe to outright dismiss the Gifts found in Romans 12, 1 Cor 12, Ephesians 4 & 1 Peter 4, and the power and authority the Spirit gives us for Christian living is just as or foolish as holy laughter, rolling the floors, barking like dogs, producing gold dust and all the other foolishness that is not of God.
The Bible says God is the same and does not change. It also Says that he will give the Holy Spirit to those that obey him, that We are to baptized with the Holy Ghost and power.
Over the top Spirit filled antics is just as damaging as complete disbelief in the Gifts or that they are not needed for today and the cessation doctrine.
TO be honest, cessation doctrine started from former Spirit filled Pastors and Evangelists, and many who were affiliated with the Assembly of God denomination or Pentecostal Holiness movements, that saw foolishness and because of it, they got confused and divided and then emotionally scared they were dishonoring God. This was not the fear of the Lord, but natural fear. SO instead of sticking to God's word, regarding the operation of Gifts, etc, they let fear and disbelief overcome them and rule them. They decided to simply SHUT DOWN any operation of the gifts and 5 fold ministry offices operating in their churches.
When their denominations told them they would not cater to their new doctrine, many left and went into other Protestant denominations and mostly the Baptist denomination.
I aslo really dislike the fact that the only thing people attack and talk about are Tongues.
I have been overcome by the power of God to the point I was on my knees and ended up completely prostrate.
I think what we must understand is that just because we see foolishness and goofy things and we discern them correctly not to be part of a true move of the Spirit, does not mean we cannot simply disregard it all as false.
There are countless examples in the Bible of people, priests and worshipers who were unable to stand before the presence of the Spirit of God [2 Chron 5.13-14]
My opinion is that for Christians to dismiss everything they see is dangerous. I also believe to outright dismiss the Gifts found in Romans 12, 1 Cor 12, Ephesians 4 & 1 Peter 4, and the power and authority the Spirit gives us for Christian living is just as or foolish as holy laughter, rolling the floors, barking like dogs, producing gold dust and all the other foolishness that is not of God.
The Bible says God is the same and does not change. It also Says that he will give the Holy Spirit to those that obey him, that We are to baptized with the Holy Ghost and power.
Over the top Spirit filled antics is just as damaging as complete disbelief in the Gifts or that they are not needed for today and the cessation doctrine.
TO be honest, cessation doctrine started from former Spirit filled Pastors and Evangelists, and many who were affiliated with the Assembly of God denomination or Pentecostal Holiness movements, that saw foolishness and because of it, they got confused and divided and then emotionally scared they were dishonoring God. This was not the fear of the Lord, but natural fear. SO instead of sticking to God's word, regarding the operation of Gifts, etc, they let fear and disbelief overcome them and rule them. They decided to simply SHUT DOWN any operation of the gifts and 5 fold ministry offices operating in their churches.
When their denominations told them they would not cater to their new doctrine, many left and went into other Protestant denominations and mostly the Baptist denomination.
I aslo really dislike the fact that the only thing people attack and talk about are Tongues.
N
These post should be about scripture not posting videos ( Nautilus ) that dont have any mention of scripture. Its not a joke, people are really hurting for truth. its a sad thing to see those people like that, in a church of all places. Its not a funny thing.
If we looked at the scripture it shows there's no babbling of any-kind mentioned. Also a simple look at the Greek is needed too. You'll find what Paul was mentioning was simple people getting together, and there needing to be a interpreter, because at that time, there were people with different languages joining the church. And that was a problem most often then not.
The actually gift of the H.S. in Acts, had no need of any interpreter. How people are overlooking that can only be, that they're not reading it.
If we looked at the scripture it shows there's no babbling of any-kind mentioned. Also a simple look at the Greek is needed too. You'll find what Paul was mentioning was simple people getting together, and there needing to be a interpreter, because at that time, there were people with different languages joining the church. And that was a problem most often then not.
The actually gift of the H.S. in Acts, had no need of any interpreter. How people are overlooking that can only be, that they're not reading it.
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Nathan you can say that all you wish, but these people are so wrapped up in their personal glory of speaking in tongues that they refuse to acknoweledge scripture on it or understand its othing but incoherent babbling. Theyve mentally compartmentalized this behavior as being of the holy spirit and not mass hysteria.
The reason many have left the charismatic movement is because for the most part the manifestation of the gifts have been proven to be fraudulent. This does not mean that your experience and the experience of others is a fraud. Certainly I believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for all generations of the Church.
The problem is wolves and demons have taken hold of the charismatic movement and distorted it into evil. And unbelievers view these babblers as imbecilic, and mock our Lord and Savior because of their behavior.
For those sincere, humble and contrite believers who have received the gift of speaking in tongues and used it wisely, I apologize for my harsh words. But the simple truth is those outside the movement only see the false witness of the deceivers distorting the truth, and do not see the contrite and humble believers.
The problem is wolves and demons have taken hold of the charismatic movement and distorted it into evil. And unbelievers view these babblers as imbecilic, and mock our Lord and Savior because of their behavior.
For those sincere, humble and contrite believers who have received the gift of speaking in tongues and used it wisely, I apologize for my harsh words. But the simple truth is those outside the movement only see the false witness of the deceivers distorting the truth, and do not see the contrite and humble believers.
T
Praying in the Holy Spirit or in Tongues
just means you are communicating with God
in the language of Angels. I cor 13
Same with 'singing' in the Spirit or in Tongues.
You were with God before you were 'born of water' and that
was your language at that time.
Now you have been 'born of the spirit' and received your former language.
just means you are communicating with God
in the language of Angels. I cor 13
Same with 'singing' in the Spirit or in Tongues.
You were with God before you were 'born of water' and that
was your language at that time.
Now you have been 'born of the spirit' and received your former language.
E
I like the point that someone brought up earlier that those who deny that speaking in tongues and other gifts can happen today are putting themselves on the same page as the Catholic church where their denominational standings or the teachings of their popes (celebrity pastors) takes precedence over Scripture.
If you want to get rid of the validness of speaking in tongues because there are many that fake it and abuse it, then you better have the permission of Jesus Christ first (fyi, John MacArthur is not Jesus Christ).
If you want to get rid of the validness of speaking in tongues because there are many that fake it and abuse it, then you better have the permission of Jesus Christ first (fyi, John MacArthur is not Jesus Christ).
T
I agree 100% with you and very well said!
I hold no ill will or frustration over those that attempted to correct the situation by deploying cessation doctrine. What I do hold against them is not being able to use the Word as a lamp for their feet and light to their path and correct the foolishness. Instead they simply swung over to the other extreme out of human fear, and not genuine fear of the Lord.
Quenching the Spirit is prohibited in the Bible. If the gifts are used according to the word they are powerful and edify the Church. There are extremes on both sides, which is why Jesus said the gate is narrow and few find it.
thanks for the mature comments
I hold no ill will or frustration over those that attempted to correct the situation by deploying cessation doctrine. What I do hold against them is not being able to use the Word as a lamp for their feet and light to their path and correct the foolishness. Instead they simply swung over to the other extreme out of human fear, and not genuine fear of the Lord.
Quenching the Spirit is prohibited in the Bible. If the gifts are used according to the word they are powerful and edify the Church. There are extremes on both sides, which is why Jesus said the gate is narrow and few find it.
thanks for the mature comments