Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

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UnderGrace

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I think the FACT the Greek specifies this IS NOT FOR MEN (us humans) ,but ONLY for God, explains that if you had a person representing every human spoken language all gathered in one place, not a single person would understand this Tongues.

Like I said, YESHUA is directing Paul what to say. So Yeshua definitely is not speaking about a human language, but the language He speaks in Heaven!! You know, the language which us humans cannot understand when it is spoken. We do not comprehend it to the point, that the Greek even specifies that we do not even actually HEAR what is being spoken!!
The word tongues (lingua, like in Latin) means language(s) or the physical tongue.
 

wolfwint

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I would say this astonished was not because they spoke in tongues, but they realized it was the same at it was at pentecost. It was for the jews unthinkable that the Holy Spirit came not alone to them, but also to the gentiles. This why God had to prepare Peter first.
 

wolfwint

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All of your questions can be answered in this manner...

We DO NOT SEE WOMEN PREACHERS or PROPHETS in the scripture. But today, WOMEN are pastors and Bible teachers. WHY are WOMEN doing something we do not see in the BIBLE?

Because the men who God wanted to be Pastors, NEVER accepted their CALL from God, and God always uses those who give themselves to be used by God.


This is why ANYONE who has FAITH can be the one to pray and bring healing.


Even in scripture, we see God use things like a donkey, like an Angel, Burning Bush to communicate to His Creation. This is why I don't question WOMEN Preachers when we do not see them in the Bible. God uses what HE chooses to use and WE just have to ACCEPT IT!! Even if we like it or not!!

The same is with Tongues and the other Gifts. We don't have to like what is happening, we just have to know how to GET OUT OF GOD'S WAY when He wants it done!!
I would say that we see woman preachers and pastors today, is, they took the duty and responsibility man has. People use the word as they want to justice their view. I cant see it that this is biblical.
 

Dino246

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"Speaking in tongues" The Holy Spirit is simply bringing prophecy.... His thoughts coming as he alone interprets them into any language his soul desires. .
We've been over this. Scripture clearly distinguishes tongues from prophecy, but you refuse to accept it.

God forbids the idea of the "private interpretations" or "private revelations".
There isn't a single verse of Scripture to support that idea.

Make a noise and find a interpreter.... as some kind sign gift seekers,
Just once, quote someone who claims to do this.
 

Dino246

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Paul is using himself as an example of proper behaviour, and really verse 18 and 19 go together.

He is thankful for the benefit of believers he is able to speak in various languages (tongues is plural).

But in the Corinthian church meeting, Paul would rather speak "five intelligible words."

He is comparing the benefit of the little (five words) that all can understand, meaningful powerful words to the many words.

When in the congregation he prefers to speak five words (meaning words, intelligible speech) with his mind fully engaged than to go on and on in a language and just blathering on like someone on a soapbox.
Of course verses 18 and 19 go together, and they go together with verses 13 to 17 as well. The context is a gift empowered by the Holy Spirit, not merely learned languages. The verses do have application in a multi-lingual community, as it's certainly better to speak in the language that the people will understand, but the larger context is that of spiritual gifts. Learning languages is not a spiritual gift in the same way that prophesying or distinguishing between spirits is a spiritual gift. One who knows the foreign language and can translate is not "gifted with interpretation of tongues".
 

UnderGrace

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Of course verses 18 and 19 go together, and they go together with verses 13 to 17 as well. The context is a gift empowered by the Holy Spirit, not merely learned languages. The verses do have application in a multi-lingual community, as it's certainly better to speak in the language that the people will understand, but the larger context is that of spiritual gifts. Learning languages is not a spiritual gift in the same way that prophesying or distinguishing between spirits is a spiritual gift. One who knows the foreign language and can translate is not "gifted with interpretation of tongues".
Ahh yes.... but speaking a language one does not know would be a gift.

Aside from that, Paul is not always speaking about spiritual gifts, actually the better part of the the letter is about the problem of various languages and making sure the congregation is being edified.

So let me show you how the gifts are always in view......soon.:)
 

obedienttogod

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That answer^ also indicates, you don't believe they are speaking English in Heaven, since God, nor His chosen people ever did speak in English in any of the original written scriptures. Like I said, it could be Hebrew that is spoken in Heaven. But nonetheless, it's a language we do not know and understand yet.
 

obedienttogod

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The word tongues (lingua, like in Latin) means language(s) or the physical tongue.


Are you even aware, that Paul claimed the work we see him do is from the influence of Yeshua?

Knowing that much, we can look if Yeshua ever spoke about stupid things like human language and language means physical tongue.

WHICH WE DO NOT SEE YESHUA TALKING ABOUT IT!!

THIS IS GOD TALKING THROUGH PAUL, so, He would not waste time with petty crap like you are mentioning.

It's as if you have no clue WHO GOD actually is :(

Or, don't realize the claim Paul made by being under the direction of Yeshua.
 

obedienttogod

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I would say that we see woman preachers and pastors today, is, they took the duty and responsibility man has. People use the word as they want to justice their view. I cant see it that this is biblical.


And I would tend to AGREE with you here. But using what you said about taking the duty and responsibility of the man, I believe in some situations, the man refused his duty and responsibility. So God, was left to use the Woman to get His message to us. I also agree that later on eventually Women's Lib did not help. But I think when it comes to sharing the WORD to the lost, some men never did their job. And some how some way, God is ALWAYS going to find a way to get His Message out. And I think, the first Woman preacher fell under this condition.
 

UnderGrace

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Are you even aware, that Paul claimed the work we see him do is from the influence of Yeshua?

Knowing that much, we can look if Yeshua ever spoke about stupid things like human language and language means physical tongue.

WHICH WE DO NOT SEE YESHUA TALKING ABOUT IT!!

THIS IS GOD TALKING THROUGH PAUL, so, He would not waste time with petty crap like you are mentioning.

It's as if you have no clue WHO GOD actually is :(

Or, don't realize the claim Paul made by being under the direction of Yeshua.

It's as if you have no clue WHO GOD actually is :(
Oh really, are you one of those people that asserts only those who speak in ecstatic utterances are saved?

The word in Greek as in other languages can refer to the physical tongue it depends on the context.

Stay calm Mr. Obedient....how a congregation functions is not petty ... much of his words towards the Corinthians was one of correction and instruction, much his letters to Timothy are considered the pastoral letters.... it does not mean they are not important for instruction presently or that they not the inspired word.

It seems that you do not wan to recognize that God can be pragmatic as shown through Paul.
 

obedienttogod

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Oh really, are you one of those people that asserts only those who speak in ecstatic utterances are saved?

The word in Greek as in other languages can refer to the physical tongue it depends on the context.

Stay calm Mr. Obedient....how a congregation functions is not petty ... much of his words towards the Corinthians was one of correction and instruction, much his letters to Timothy are considered the pastoral letters.... it does not mean they are not important for instruction presently or that they not the inspired word.

It seems that you do not wan to recognize that God can be pragmatic as shown through Paul.


There is no assertion here:

I am just bringing to light that Paul specified his actions were actually the actions of Yeshua (preaching - teaching - his letters ALL done under the guidance of Yeshua).

YES, God through Paul is CORRECTING those at Corinth. So God would not scold people about human languages unless they were cursing in church. But we do not see that was what happened. So, we know that God is speaking to them on behalf of the Holy Spirit and its Gifts. Which in this situation, is the Gift of Tongues!!
 

UnderGrace

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There is no assertion here:

I am just bringing to light that Paul specified his actions were actually the actions of Yeshua (preaching - teaching - his letters ALL done under the guidance of Yeshua).

YES, God through Paul is CORRECTING those at Corinth. So God would not scold people about human languages unless they were cursing in church. But we do not see that was what happened. So, we know that God is speaking to them on behalf of the Holy Spirit and its Gifts. Which in this situation, is the Gift of Tongues!!

So God would not scold people about human languages unless they were cursing in church.
Not really, if their time together is a disorganized mess and people are showing off and grandstanding, if you read the letters in proper context you will see what Paul was dealing with and correcting.
 

obedienttogod

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Not really, if their time together is a disorganized mess and people are showing off and grandstanding, if you read the letters in proper context you will see what Paul was dealing with and correcting.


That still has NOTHING to do with Paul discussing a Tongue/Language not for humans, and that humans cannot understand because it is for God only.



People then seem better educated than we are today. Many spoke several languages (unlike the majority of all of us today), many understood several language (unlike us today), Mesopotamia had Aramaic/Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and several dialects of the Arabaic Languages plus several more I did not list. So, someone speaking in known human languages were not confusing people. But Paul is speaking of a Language none of those humans would ever be able to understand. That only God would understand.

This really is basic common sense here.

Not sure why you are making any of the claims you have been. You seem to be so thoroughly against the idea of speaking in the Gift of Tongues, you have resulted in taking what God said through Paul out of complete context :(
 

wolfwint

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That still has NOTHING to do with Paul discussing a Tongue/Language not for humans, and that humans cannot understand because it is for God only.



People then seem better educated than we are today. Many spoke several languages (unlike the majority of all of us today), many understood several language (unlike us today), Mesopotamia had Aramaic/Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and several dialects of the Arabaic Languages plus several more I did not list. So, someone speaking in known human languages were not confusing people. But Paul is speaking of a Language none of those humans would ever be able to understand. That only God would understand.

This really is basic common sense here.

Not sure why you are making any of the claims you have been. You seem to be so thoroughly against the idea of speaking in the Gift of Tongues, you have resulted in taking what God said through Paul out of complete context :(
I suppose the thing is, that since Agnes Ozman and the following teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for it the speaking in tongues was not taught in any letters of Paul ore in churchhistory.
If this teaching would be right we would find it clear in the bible.
That there was some big movements like the montanism since 160 ad till the 6.th century ore some tongue events in movements like irvingians ore mormons, ore occuring of toungues at revival events are for me no proof that the pentecostal teaching as we find since 1900 ad ore later the charismatic teachings about it has something to do with that what we find in the bible and what Paul is talking about.
Btw almost all movements which had this tonguespeaking were cults and had false teachings.
 

UnderGrace

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That still has NOTHING to do with Paul discussing a Tongue/Language not for humans, and that humans cannot understand because it is for God only.



People then seem better educated than we are today. Many spoke several languages (unlike the majority of all of us today), many understood several language (unlike us today), Mesopotamia had Aramaic/Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and several dialects of the Arabaic Languages plus several more I did not list. So, someone speaking in known human languages were not confusing people. But Paul is speaking of a Language none of those humans would ever be able to understand. That only God would understand.

This really is basic common sense here.

Not sure why you are making any of the claims you have been. You seem to be so thoroughly against the idea of speaking in the Gift of Tongues, you have resulted in taking what God said through Paul out of complete context :(
Paul uses the word "glossa" this means "language" with words and meaning.

If Paul was addressing ecstatic utterances he would have used another word....it is very simple

The rest of what you write is again supposition.
Paul knowwig several languages was probably quite rare indicated by his statement about him knowing more languages than the Corinthian church members.
 

Dino246

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Paul knowwig several languages was probably quite rare indicated by his statement about him knowing more languages than the Corinthian church members.
Paul undoubtedly did know several languages. However, "knowing languages" is not a spiritual gift.
 

UnderGrace

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Paul undoubtedly did know several languages. However, "knowing languages" is not a spiritual gift.
Well, I am not sure that we are talking about the same miraculous gift that occured in Acts as what is being addressed in Corinthians.
Thinking....
 

Dino246

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Well, I am not sure that we are talking about the same miraculous gift that occured in Acts as what is being addressed in Corinthians.
Thinking....
I'm inclined to think it is the same gift, because it's the same Giver, and it is described in similar terms. The disciples were empowered to speak in languages (or perhaps dialects) that they had not learned.
 

obedienttogod

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I suppose the thing is, that since Agnes Ozman and the following teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for it the speaking in tongues was not taught in any letters of Paul ore in churchhistory.
If this teaching would be right we would find it clear in the bible.
That there was some big movements like the montanism since 160 ad till the 6.th century ore some tongue events in movements like irvingians ore mormons, ore occuring of toungues at revival events are for me no proof that the pentecostal teaching as we find since 1900 ad ore later the charismatic teachings about it has something to do with that what we find in the bible and what Paul is talking about.
Btw almost all movements which had this tonguespeaking were cults and had false teachings.


I need to research this person, Agnes Ozman, and see if maybe he used this scripture reference as his Biblical platform.

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


In this passage we have, preaching the WORD, that leads to receiving the Holy Ghost, that results in Speaking in Tongues, that led Peter to baptize them.

So, if this Agnes Ozman followed this series of events, Preaching the WORD, people received the Holy Spirit from hearing the WORD preached, and then they began speaking in Tongues...well technically, by the example we read in Acts chapter 10 verses 44 - 48, this Agnes Ozman is following what we read specifically in the Bible.

But then again, if he did not go in the proper order like we read in Acts chapter 10, I would then question his method.
 

obedienttogod

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Paul uses the word "glossa" this means "language" with words and meaning.

If Paul was addressing ecstatic utterances he would have used another word....it is very simple

The rest of what you write is again supposition.
Paul knowwig several languages was probably quite rare indicated by his statement about him knowing more languages than the Corinthian church members.


Technically, GLOSSA is an Icelandic word that I highly doubt the Greeks were associated with!!

Glossa
Translate from: Icelandic




I have the actual Greek text:

Paul's actual word he used: This translation comes from the Greek Bible using English and Parallel Greek:
γλώσσῃ = in a tongue

Greek Texts
SBL Greek New Testament 2010
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ, οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ Θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

Westcott and Hort 1881
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ, οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ, οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ, ἀλλὰ τῷ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια.

Greek Orthodox Church 1904
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ, ἀλλὰ τῷ Θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

Tischendorf 8th Edition
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ, οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ, ἀλλὰ τῶ Θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια.

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ τῶ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·


EVERY TRANSLATION USES THE WORD "γλώσσῃ = in a tongue," that means "IN A TONGUE."

What is ALSO BEAUTIFUL about these PROPER GREEK TRANSLATIONS, is the fact that the WORD Paul used prior to the WORD (γλώσσῃ = in a tongue) found in every translation is, λαλῶν, which means SPEAKING.

So together, λαλῶν γλώσσῃ means SPEAKING IN A TONGUE!!


Your translation is severely flawed and incorrect!!