Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power
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@fredoheaven -
"Bible described barbarians are as very kind, courteous and hospitable and are ready to help."
Yes, I think regarding them as "uncivilized", etc. was sort of the general opinion/consensus - until you actually met one and discovered they were indeed cultured, civilized and, in many ways, just like you.
Somewhat analogous to how 'Russians' were regarded during the "Cold War".
"Bible described barbarians are as very kind, courteous and hospitable and are ready to help."
Yes, I think regarding them as "uncivilized", etc. was sort of the general opinion/consensus - until you actually met one and discovered they were indeed cultured, civilized and, in many ways, just like you.
Somewhat analogous to how 'Russians' were regarded during the "Cold War".
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So no one has ever interpreted what you said, and you don't know yourself, either?
But you felt good, and other people felt good too?
What's been the usefulness of this compared to just smiling, then?
Not disparaging just trying to understand. The Bible says tongues is a sign for unbelievers, so I'm not clear about how that meshes with what you described.
But you felt good, and other people felt good too?
What's been the usefulness of this compared to just smiling, then?
Not disparaging just trying to understand. The Bible says tongues is a sign for unbelievers, so I'm not clear about how that meshes with what you described.
oh come on now
the Bible only says tongues are a sign for unbelievers?
do you have that redacted version of Paul's writings too?
the Bible only says tongues are a sign for unbelievers?
do you have that redacted version of Paul's writings too?
Wherefore strange tongues are for a signe, not to them that beleeue, but to them that beleeue not: but prophecying serueth not for them that beleeue not, but for them which beleeue.
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2
One is edified when speaking to God in the spirit:
"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;" 1 Cor 14:4
One is edified when speaking to God in the spirit:
"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;" 1 Cor 14:4
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Y'all this is the same chapter of the same Bible. It is not set against itself. Verse 3: prophecy edifices believers. Strange tongues don't. Maybe it helps you feel good but it doesn't even edify your own mind, vv. 14-15.
And this is the course of the apostles argument, concluding that tongues are a sign to unbelievers, not believers, and prophecy a sign to believers.
Verses 2 and 4 ((skipping 3 for some reason?)) don't redact verse 22, they support and explain it.
So if you speak in some unknown language and you have no idea what you said, or if it was even a language at all, and no one else does either, and the only outcome is that you are impressed with yourself and another believer is impressed with you - how does that jive with verse 22? Has anything worth being proud of occured?
That's what I don't understand here.
And I reckon that's why verse 13 exists.
And this is the course of the apostles argument, concluding that tongues are a sign to unbelievers, not believers, and prophecy a sign to believers.
Verses 2 and 4 ((skipping 3 for some reason?)) don't redact verse 22, they support and explain it.
So if you speak in some unknown language and you have no idea what you said, or if it was even a language at all, and no one else does either, and the only outcome is that you are impressed with yourself and another believer is impressed with you - how does that jive with verse 22? Has anything worth being proud of occured?
That's what I don't understand here.
And I reckon that's why verse 13 exists.
I think its important to keep in mind Paul's lead up to his writing on "unknown" tongues as there is no indication that some kind of spiritual/angelic language is indicated.
(1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.)
(1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.)
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Seems pretty clear when we look at it in full context. There is more than one of manifestation.
1.) private prayer-tongues.
2.) public interpreted tongues.
Paul prefers prophecy in a known tongue, and NO, the gift of tongues is not polyglotism (knowing foreign languages).
1 Cor 14
14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.
14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification.
14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.
14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.
14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
14:21 In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.
14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
14:30 If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1.) private prayer-tongues.
2.) public interpreted tongues.
Paul prefers prophecy in a known tongue, and NO, the gift of tongues is not polyglotism (knowing foreign languages).
1 Cor 14
14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.
14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification.
14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.
14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.
14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
14:21 In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.
14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
14:30 If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
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Not clear the "private prayer-tongues" can be established from the context. I don't see it
Maybe not in the sense that the speaker can speak in many languages, I view it in the sense that someone is gifted at a particular time to speak in a language not known/learned to him through the spirit when it was needed.
Maybe not in the sense that the speaker can speak in many languages, I view it in the sense that someone is gifted at a particular time to speak in a language not known/learned to him through the spirit when it was needed.
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The key to understanding what Paul was saying in that chapter is the very first verse, the first three words- follow after charity (Love).
The chapter before, Paul had described charity in details and one clear thing about charity is that it is not self seeking, it is always about others.
So, there shouldn't be anything about private prayer tongues not unless you can explain how self edification is not self seeking.
The chapter before, Paul had described charity in details and one clear thing about charity is that it is not self seeking, it is always about others.
So, there shouldn't be anything about private prayer tongues not unless you can explain how self edification is not self seeking.
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honestly
when are you people going to get it? why do you keep denying what the scripture says so plainly?
so this a.m. I got out one of my guitars and sang praise to God in tongues and then in English...I can't make this stuff up and I am past caring whether or not some Thomas believes it or not
this is a gift I have given by the Spirit of God. I never did this before I was baptized in the Spirit...something else so many of you deny...it seems I do translate.
news flash: I have done this also in church, Bible study and small groups and people have been blessed and thankful for this gift because it is worship
I am a worshiper and I lead others in worship. it's a gift. I used to be so shy I would actually pray not to be noticed. boldness is one thing the Holy Spirit gives...as can be seen on the day of Pentecost
and another big news flash. I pray in tongues and often interpret. now come along and say how do I know that what I interpret is true? some here have said those who pray in tongues do so by a demonic spirit
you are blaspheming . now if someone is seeking and they do not know...because so many churches are in error about the gifts..that is another thing. but if you have sat yourself down and convinced your self that all tongues are demonic?
the more you say so, the more you will be convinced that is so unless God intervenes as He did with Paul
if I would start to list all the times that praying in tongues...in the spirit the Bible calls it...has benefited me and enriched my life some of you would deny it and start your mockery and name calling
well good for you. you cannot prove the existence of God and neither can you disprove the gift of tongues. lately there has been a whole series of threads on tongues and people getting angry and people being bullies and denying what is plainly written
the entire cessationist viewpoint is that tongues were valid back in Acts or when Paul wrote his letters but now the gift is no longer true and people are babblers and on and on and on
and then some insist all tongues must be interpreted IN SPITE of Paul saying the opposite when giving instruction to the Corinthians
no one has to speak or pray in tongues to be 'saved' but it changes your relationship with God and is communication from your spirit to His. now come along and say God understands your language just fine
that is not the problem. YOU, do not understand His
all this denying is just alot of clanging noise and the actual source of the babbling
when are you people going to get it? why do you keep denying what the scripture says so plainly?
so this a.m. I got out one of my guitars and sang praise to God in tongues and then in English...I can't make this stuff up and I am past caring whether or not some Thomas believes it or not
this is a gift I have given by the Spirit of God. I never did this before I was baptized in the Spirit...something else so many of you deny...it seems I do translate.
news flash: I have done this also in church, Bible study and small groups and people have been blessed and thankful for this gift because it is worship
I am a worshiper and I lead others in worship. it's a gift. I used to be so shy I would actually pray not to be noticed. boldness is one thing the Holy Spirit gives...as can be seen on the day of Pentecost
and another big news flash. I pray in tongues and often interpret. now come along and say how do I know that what I interpret is true? some here have said those who pray in tongues do so by a demonic spirit
you are blaspheming . now if someone is seeking and they do not know...because so many churches are in error about the gifts..that is another thing. but if you have sat yourself down and convinced your self that all tongues are demonic?
the more you say so, the more you will be convinced that is so unless God intervenes as He did with Paul
if I would start to list all the times that praying in tongues...in the spirit the Bible calls it...has benefited me and enriched my life some of you would deny it and start your mockery and name calling
well good for you. you cannot prove the existence of God and neither can you disprove the gift of tongues. lately there has been a whole series of threads on tongues and people getting angry and people being bullies and denying what is plainly written
the entire cessationist viewpoint is that tongues were valid back in Acts or when Paul wrote his letters but now the gift is no longer true and people are babblers and on and on and on
and then some insist all tongues must be interpreted IN SPITE of Paul saying the opposite when giving instruction to the Corinthians
no one has to speak or pray in tongues to be 'saved' but it changes your relationship with God and is communication from your spirit to His. now come along and say God understands your language just fine
that is not the problem. YOU, do not understand His
all this denying is just alot of clanging noise and the actual source of the babbling
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O
Excellent observation and question. Acts 10 shows specifically what Paul spoke about in 1 Corinthians 14. Everyone around not only understood there was Speaking Tongues happening, and they were astonished by it (meaning the Jews knew it was Spoken Tongues by the Gentiles and had no clue what was being said). Peter then immediately (no doubt led by God's Spirit) instructed the ones Speaking in Tongues to be Baptized. He, nor anyone else interpreted the multitude of Spoken Tongues. But it's obvious, he was led by God to continue and instruct them to be baptized.
So, outside of Speaking in Tongues to edify yourself and believers, Speaking in Tongues that no one understands, and Speaking in Tongues without interpretation is all Biblical and there are examples of them (like Acts 10).
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