Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,055
313
83
28
#1
Speaking In Tongues Privately
------------------------------------

I am going to attempt to show you that tongues can be used for private use.


1 Corinthians 14:2-4 King James Version (KJV)

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

First, and foremost, the gift of tongues being spoken of here specifically says that the language is being spoken to God, not man. This isn't me supernaturally speaking in a foreign dialect to a foreign people. This is me speaking in tongues, no matter the language, to the Lord. It is between God and I.

In verse 4 we see that the gift of tongues edifies the tongue speaker personally, where as prophesying edifies the church. This is important. Tongues, the gift, edifies the tongue speaker. This is emphasized multiple times in 1 Corinthians 14.


1 Corinthians 14:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


There is a lot being said in the above verses, but lets go over each point. Tongues in this instance is not understood by the people hearing them, "seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest." So, again, tongues here is not speaking supernaturally in a language you are ignorant unto their edification (speaking a message to them in their language). They have no clue what you are saying.

Secondly, it says that through tongues you are giving "thanks well" but the other is not edified. Once again, the tongue speaker himself is using the gift of tongues and being edified ("blessing with the spirit"), and the audience (those hearing the tongues nearby) are not edified. Why? They don't know what you are saying, and it needs interpretation for them to be edified. Yet, the tongue speaker is edified regardless of interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:14, 1 Corinthians 14:17).

Thirdly, notice the apostles Paul's words here in verse 19. "Yet in the church" he'd rather speak five understood words than ten thousand in tongues. Notice, it can be inferred, that he speaks in tongues outside of the church. Yet in the church, as opposed to what? At home? In a home fellowship? In his prayer closet? In, can we speculate, private?


1 Corinthians 14:27-28 King James Version (KJV)

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


If the tongue speaker is speaking to himself and to God, is this not private? Please read verse 28 carefully. "Let him keep silence in the church", and we ask again, as opposed to where else? In private, which means we would "let him speak to himself and to God."

PS: Yes, this is a recent post of mine but I felt it needed its own thread.
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#2
People lack faith, curiosity

Holy Spirit isn't divided.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,661
458
83
#3
Nice theory.

And now to practice - does anybody here have anything else than a free vocalization ability?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,334
806
113
#4
Nice theory.

And now to practice - does anybody here have anything else than a free vocalization ability?
Evening

Can I ask why you mean by “free vocalisation ability?
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#5
Speaking In Tongues Privately
------------------------------------

I am going to attempt to show you that tongues can be used for private use.


1 Corinthians 14:2-4 King James Version (KJV)

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

First, and foremost, the gift of tongues being spoken of here specifically says that the language is being spoken to God, not man. This isn't me supernaturally speaking in a foreign dialect to a foreign people. This is me speaking in tongues, no matter the language, to the Lord. It is between God and I.


You have to read verse 1 with that, brother.

1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

Now a reader would ask why prophesy? And Paul is answering that question by those following verses. Paul is not comparing tongues against prophesy for how beneficial tongues can be used privately, but for why prophesy is better as he explained thru out that chapter that tongues is not a stand lone gift to be using in the assembly, because he as a tongue speaker prays that someone else may interpret that tongue so that the tongue will be fruitful to him as well.

In verse 4 we see that the gift of tongues edifies the tongue speaker personally, where as prophesying edifies the church. This is important. Tongues, the gift, edifies the tongue speaker. This is emphasized multiple times in 1 Corinthians 14.
1 Corinthians 14:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


There is a lot being said in the above verses, but lets go over each point. Tongues in this instance is not understood by the people hearing them, "seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest." So, again, tongues here is not speaking supernaturally in a language you are ignorant unto their edification (speaking a message to them in their language). They have no clue what you are saying.

Secondly, it says that through tongues you are giving "thanks well" but the other is not edified. Once again, the tongue speaker himself is using the gift of tongues and being edified ("blessing with the spirit"), and the audience (those hearing the tongues nearby) are not edified. Why? They don't know what you are saying, and it needs interpretation for them to be edified. Yet, the tongue speaker is edified regardless of interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:14, 1 Corinthians 14:17).

Thirdly, notice the apostles Paul's words here in verse 19. "Yet in the church" he'd rather speak five understood words than ten thousand in tongues. Notice, it can be inferred, that he speaks in tongues outside of the church. Yet in the church, as opposed to what? At home? In a home fellowship? In his prayer closet? In, can we speculate, private?


And yet in those very verses you used, tongues was being used in the assembly and not for private use. This is Paul saying that tongues is again, not a stand alone gift to seek after because it must come with interpretation when manifested in the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14:27-28 King James Version (KJV)

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


If the tongue speaker is speaking to himself and to God, is this not private? Please read verse 28 carefully. "Let him keep silence in the church", and we ask again, as opposed to where else? In private, which means we would "let him speak to himself and to God."

PS: Yes, this is a recent post of mine but I felt it needed its own thread.
Do you see how tongues is to be given in the assembly? 2 or 3 speaks in tongues one by one, while another interprets just as those who prophesy are to do in the same way. Imagine that practice back in the day in Corinth when a foreigner may visit the church, see this happening, and stands up and says something for why there is no interpretation. Verse 28 is Paul way of explaining why there is no interpretation to that tongue spoken and why that guy is to be kept in silence because he is a foreigner speaking out of turn as he understands what he is saying thus speaking unto himself which is not God's gift of tongues, and God understands what he is saying and not meaning today as speaking TO God instead.

Think about the ramification for allowing one to speak "quietly" in tongue if you believe that is Paul permitting that in church back in the days where there is no sound system. Annoying and rude for those around him, yes? So that is not what Paul is saying when he talks about using the gifts when ALL things is to be done to edify in the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]26 [/SUP]How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

So did the Holy Spirit forget this memo? No. Then you are reading verse 28 wrong if you think Paul is advocating using tongues privately IN the assembly which is opposing your argument for using outside the assembly only.

If one could do that, then all the tongue speakers could do that. Try holding a sermon now from the pulpit. So no.

Back in the day if all spoke in tongues and someone came in and say that and think them all mad, then the same would be true for any one speaking in tongues privately or quietly as if there is something wrong with him.

Like it or not, tongue speakers need to take their eyepiece for verses used out of context as if justifying using tongues privately and even in the assembly when Paul is telling believers that when zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts because in comparing tongues against prophesy, tongues is not a stand alone gift because it has to come with interpretation for it to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker for why prophesy is better than tongues.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
#6
Speaking In Tongues Privately
------------------------------------

I am going to attempt to show you that tongues can be used for private use.
1 Corinthians 14:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

First, and foremost, the gift of tongues being spoken of here specifically says that the language is being spoken to God, not man. This isn't me supernaturally speaking in a foreign dialect to a foreign people. This is me speaking in tongues, no matter the language, to the Lord. It is between God and I.
In verse 4 we see that the gift of tongues edifies the tongue speaker personally, where as prophesying edifies the church. This is important. Tongues, the gift, edifies the tongue speaker. This is emphasized multiple times in 1 Corinthians 14.

1 Corinthians 14:16-19 King James Version (KJV)
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

There is a lot being said in the above verses, but lets go over each point. Tongues in this instance is not understood by the people hearing them, "seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest." So, again, tongues here is not speaking supernaturally in a language you are ignorant unto their edification (speaking a message to them in their language). They have no clue what you are saying.
Secondly, it says that through tongues you are giving "thanks well" but the other is not edified. Once again, the tongue speaker himself is using the gift of tongues and being edified ("blessing with the spirit"), and the audience (those hearing the tongues nearby) are not edified. Why? They don't know what you are saying, and it needs interpretation for them to be edified. Yet, the tongue speaker is edified regardless of interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:14, 1 Corinthians 14:17).
Thirdly, notice the apostles Paul's words here in verse 19. "Yet in the church" he'd rather speak five understood words than ten thousand in tongues. Notice, it can be inferred, that he speaks in tongues outside of the church. Yet in the church, as opposed to what? At home? In a home fellowship? In his prayer closet? In, can we speculate, private?

1 Corinthians 14:27-28 King James Version (KJV)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

If the tongue speaker is speaking to himself and to God, is this not private? Please read verse 28 carefully. "Let him keep silence in the church", and we ask again, as opposed to where else? In private, which means we would "let him speak to himself a
nd to God."
PS: Yes, this is a recent post of mine but I felt it needed its own thread.
Good post, but may I add..."[FONT=&quot]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be [/FONT]uttered. (Rom 8:26)
This has got to be during personal prayer with God.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,055
313
83
28
#7
You have to read verse 1 with that, brother.

1 Corinthians 14:1[/COLOR]Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

Now a reader would ask why prophesy? And Paul is answering that question by those following verses. Paul is not comparing tongues against prophesy for how beneficial tongues can be used privately, but for why prophesy is better as he explained thru out that chapter that tongues is not a stand lone gift to be using in the assembly, because he as a tongue speaker prays that someone else may interpret that tongue so that the tongue will be fruitful to him as well.



And yet in those very verses you used, tongues was being used in the assembly and not for private use. This is Paul saying that tongues is again, not a stand alone gift to seek after because it must come with interpretation when manifested in the assembly.



Do you see how tongues is to be given in the assembly? 2 or 3 speaks in tongues one by one, while another interprets just as those who prophesy are to do in the same way. Imagine that practice back in the day in Corinth when a foreigner may visit the church, see this happening, and stands up and says something for why there is no interpretation. Verse 28 is Paul way of explaining why there is no interpretation to that tongue spoken and why that guy is to be kept in silence because he is a foreigner speaking out of turn as he understands what he is saying thus speaking unto himself which is not God's gift of tongues, and God understands what he is saying and not meaning today as speaking TO God instead.

Think about the ramification for allowing one to speak "quietly" in tongue if you believe that is Paul permitting that in church back in the days where there is no sound system. Annoying and rude for those around him, yes? So that is not what Paul is saying when he talks about using the gifts when ALL things is to be done to edify in the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]26 [/SUP]How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

So did the Holy Spirit forget this memo? No. Then you are reading verse 28 wrong if you think Paul is advocating using tongues privately IN the assembly which is opposing your argument for using outside the assembly only.

If one could do that, then all the tongue speakers could do that. Try holding a sermon now from the pulpit. So no.

Back in the day if all spoke in tongues and someone came in and say that and think them all mad, then the same would be true for any one speaking in tongues privately or quietly as if there is something wrong with him.

Like it or not, tongue speakers need to take their eyepiece for verses used out of context as if justifying using tongues privately and even in the assembly when Paul is telling believers that when zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts because in comparing tongues against prophesy, tongues is not a stand alone gift because it has to come with interpretation for it to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker for why prophesy is better than tongues.


So much of this is refuted by a casual reading of 1 Corinthians 14. Within you'll find a verse that says the tongue speaker, himself, can interpret his own tongues (pray that they may interpret). That itself reveals your understanding of 1 Corinthians 14 to be incorrect, when you suggest that the tongues must be interpreted by someone else.

The case has been made, and no verse was taken out of context.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
452
83
#8
Speaking In Tongues Privately
------------------------------------

I am going to attempt to show you that tongues can be used for private use.


1 Corinthians 14:2-4 King James Version (KJV)

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

First, and foremost, the gift of tongues being spoken of here specifically says that the language is being spoken to God, not man. This isn't me supernaturally speaking in a foreign dialect to a foreign people. This is me speaking in tongues, no matter the language, to the Lord. It is between God and I.

In verse 4 we see that the gift of tongues edifies the tongue speaker personally, where as prophesying edifies the church. This is important. Tongues, the gift, edifies the tongue speaker. This is emphasized multiple times in 1 Corinthians 14.


1 Corinthians 14:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


There is a lot being said in the above verses, but lets go over each point. Tongues in this instance is not understood by the people hearing them, "seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest." So, again, tongues here is not speaking supernaturally in a language you are ignorant unto their edification (speaking a message to them in their language). They have no clue what you are saying.

Secondly, it says that through tongues you are giving "thanks well" but the other is not edified. Once again, the tongue speaker himself is using the gift of tongues and being edified ("blessing with the spirit"), and the audience (those hearing the tongues nearby) are not edified. Why? They don't know what you are saying, and it needs interpretation for them to be edified. Yet, the tongue speaker is edified regardless of interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:14, 1 Corinthians 14:17).

Thirdly, notice the apostles Paul's words here in verse 19. "Yet in the church" he'd rather speak five understood words than ten thousand in tongues. Notice, it can be inferred, that he speaks in tongues outside of the church. Yet in the church, as opposed to what? At home? In a home fellowship? In his prayer closet? In, can we speculate, private?


1 Corinthians 14:27-28 King James Version (KJV)

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


If the tongue speaker is speaking to himself and to God, is this not private? Please read verse 28 carefully. "Let him keep silence in the church", and we ask again, as opposed to where else? In private, which means we would "let him speak to himself and to God."

PS: Yes, this is a recent post of mine but I felt it needed its own thread.
Great post, Ben.

I just wish you could see that tongues is not a gift. It is one of the nine manifestation of the singular gift of the Holy Spirit. If a person has the gift, he is has the ability to manifest that gift. This is why Paul by revelation could say "I want all of you to speak in tongues" (1 Cor 14:5).

Tongues is not a gift that is given to some Christians but not to others. The gift of Holy Spirit has been given to EVERY Christian, and every Christian has the ability to manifest that gift (1 Cor 12:7).

Most Christians do not understand what tongues is, think it's "weird", they're afraid of doing it wrong, looking silly, etc.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,055
313
83
28
#9
Great post, Ben.

I just wish you could see that tongues is not a gift. It is one of the nine manifestation of the singular gift of the Holy Spirit. If a person has the gift, he is has the ability to manifest that gift. This is why Paul by revelation could say "I want all of you to speak in tongues" (1 Cor 14:5).

Tongues is not a gift that is given to some Christians but not to others. The gift of Holy Spirit has been given to EVERY Christian, and every Christian has the ability to manifest that gift (1 Cor 12:7).

Most Christians do not understand what tongues is, think it's "weird", they're afraid of doing it wrong, looking silly, etc.
I understand this perspective, I've heard it before. One evangelist has worded it as the manifestations of the Spirit are "tools for the job." Meaning that as the opportunity presents itself, the Lord can use any of the nine "gifts" to edify the Body of Christ.

I don't necessarily agree though, because Corinthians says that the Lord divides them severally as He wills. Meaning that such manifestations are distributed, and not everyone operates in each of the gifts, or all of them.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31 King James Version (KJV)

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Notice in listing these manifestations, if you will, they are still described as gifts. We are told to covet earnestly the best gifts. How do we seek that which we already have (in the interpretation you present)?

Either way, whether you see these supernatural activities as gifts or manifestations, the solution is simply obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
541
113
#10
I think speaking ABOUT speaking in tongues should also be private.


Couldn't resist.
:)
 

CS1

Moderator
Staff member
May 23, 2012
2,781
312
83
#11
I know the answer this question but I will ask it anyway .

what is the difference of Modern tongues of classical tongues .

And are the Gifts of the holy Spirit in the context of only original tongues and god not able to provide the gift in modern tongue today ?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,055
313
83
28
#12
I think speaking ABOUT speaking in tongues should also be private.


Couldn't resist.
:)
I've noticed that there does seem to be an overflow of this topic. So I decided to add to it, lol. :p
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
452
83
#14
I understand this perspective, I've heard it before. One evangelist has worded it as the manifestations of the Spirit are "tools for the job."
That's pretty accurate.. :)

Meaning that as the opportunity presents itself, the Lord can use any of the nine "gifts" to edify the Body of Christ.
That's true (except they aren't "gifts").

I don't necessarily agree though
So was Paul just expressing wishful thinking when he wrote 1 Cor 14:5, knowing it was not possible?

because Corinthians says that the Lord divides them severally as He wills. Meaning that such manifestations are distributed, and not everyone operates in each of the gifts, or all of them.
The overall context of 1 Cor 12-14 is meetings. In meetings, different people do different things. If everyone was to speak in tongues and interpret, and prophesy, if it was a large meeting, it would never end... :)

It's also true that some people are more adept at some of the manifestations than they are in others.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31 King James Version (KJV)

[FONT=&]27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?[/FONT]
[FONT=&]30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?[/FONT]
[FONT=&]31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Notice in listing these manifestations, if you will, they are still described as gifts.

That list contains both gifts and manifestations. Being an apostle, prophet, or teacher is not a manifestation. Those are specific ministries that some people are gifted with. But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man (1 Cor 12:7).

We are told to covet earnestly the best gifts. How do we seek that which we already have (in the interpretation you present)?
We can seek to excel at it.

Either way, whether you see these supernatural activities as gifts or manifestations, the solution is simply obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
I submit that the leading of the Holy Spirit is "I would that ye all spake with tongues".

Whether we'll agree on this or not, I'm thankful that you believe in and practice speaking in tongues.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,664
440
83
#15
The word glossa means languages or the actual tongue depending on the context.

So yes we can speak with a language privately

glóssa: the tongue, a language​
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Short Definition: the tongue, a language, nation
Definition: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).


Speaking In Tongues Privately
------------------------------------

I am going to attempt to show you that tongues can be used for private use.


1 Corinthians 14:2-4 King James Version (KJV)

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

First, and foremost, the gift of tongues being spoken of here specifically says that the language is being spoken to God, not man. This isn't me supernaturally speaking in a foreign dialect to a foreign people. This is me speaking in tongues, no matter the language, to the Lord. It is between God and I.

In verse 4 we see that the gift of tongues edifies the tongue speaker personally, where as prophesying edifies the church. This is important. Tongues, the gift, edifies the tongue speaker. This is emphasized multiple times in 1 Corinthians 14.


1 Corinthians 14:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


There is a lot being said in the above verses, but lets go over each point. Tongues in this instance is not understood by the people hearing them, "seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest." So, again, tongues here is not speaking supernaturally in a language you are ignorant unto their edification (speaking a message to them in their language). They have no clue what you are saying.

Secondly, it says that through tongues you are giving "thanks well" but the other is not edified. Once again, the tongue speaker himself is using the gift of tongues and being edified ("blessing with the spirit"), and the audience (those hearing the tongues nearby) are not edified. Why? They don't know what you are saying, and it needs interpretation for them to be edified. Yet, the tongue speaker is edified regardless of interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:14, 1 Corinthians 14:17).

Thirdly, notice the apostles Paul's words here in verse 19. "Yet in the church" he'd rather speak five understood words than ten thousand in tongues. Notice, it can be inferred, that he speaks in tongues outside of the church. Yet in the church, as opposed to what? At home? In a home fellowship? In his prayer closet? In, can we speculate, private?


1 Corinthians 14:27-28 King James Version (KJV)

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


If the tongue speaker is speaking to himself and to God, is this not private? Please read verse 28 carefully. "Let him keep silence in the church", and we ask again, as opposed to where else? In private, which means we would "let him speak to himself and to God."

PS: Yes, this is a recent post of mine but I felt it needed its own thread.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,958
662
113
#16
I am going to attempt to show you that tongues can be used for private use.
The real issue is whether or not tongues SHOULD BE USED in this manner.

1. There is NOT A SINGLE DIRECTIVE in Scripture to pray in any other language than the normal language which you use for everyday speech.

2. There is absolutely no merit awarded to anyone for praying in foreign languages or mouthing gibberish.

3. God is not glorified if a strange language is used to address Him, when Christ taught us to pray with simplicity and sincerity.

4. The meaning of 1 Corinthians 14:14,15 has been thoroughly perverted to accommodate modern "prayer language".

So what is Paul really teaching us here?

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

For if I pray in an unknown tongue: The Greek text says "if I pray in a language" [supernaturally]

my spirit prayeth: only my spirit is involved [and this is with respect to a genuine human language spoken supernaturally]

but my understanding is unfruitful: my mind and my thoughts are not involved

What is it then?: one could paraphrase this in modern parlance as "And that's a shame"

I will pray with the spirit: I will engage in genuine prayer, where my spirit communes with God

and I will pray with the understanding also: I will engage my mind and my thoughts in my praying.

So how can anyone claim that these verses are encouraging prayer language, when they are actually telling people to pray intelligently and intelligibly?
 
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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,055
313
83
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#17
That's pretty accurate.. :)


That's true (except they aren't "gifts").


So was Paul just expressing wishful thinking when he wrote 1 Cor 14:5, knowing it was not possible?


The overall context of 1 Cor 12-14 is meetings. In meetings, different people do different things. If everyone was to speak in tongues and interpret, and prophesy, if it was a large meeting, it would never end... :)

It's also true that some people are more adept at some of the manifestations than they are in others.


That list contains both gifts and manifestations. Being an apostle, prophet, or teacher is not a manifestation. Those are specific ministries that some people are gifted with. But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man (1 Cor 12:7).


We can seek to excel at it.


I submit that the leading of the Holy Spirit is "I would that ye all spake with tongues".

Whether we'll agree on this or not, I'm thankful that you believe in and practice speaking in tongues.
The apostle Paul was not expressing wishful thinking, rather he understood that people could covet earnestly the best gifts. Meaning that we have the nine manifestations, or gifts, and if we so desire to operate in them we may seek them from the Lord for the edification of those we encounter. So he was sincere in such a desire, and people ought to seek those gifts, the best gifts, for the edification of all.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,334
806
113
#18
This could be an interesting thread.

I think potentially there are going to be 3 views here.

1. Cessationism
2. Continuationism
3. I have no idea

Those with the 1st view as I understand it believe that the gifts bestowed on the early church ceased after the apostolic age, which includes tongues. And that we now have scripture to reveal God and that’s all we need.

Those with the 2nd view beleive all the gifts are still given today. And therefore we still have an apostolic church today.

I myself am in the 2nd view.

With regards to tongues I will tell you a very negative experience I had with those in view 2.
I was once told that because I didn’t speak in tongues it was evidence that I wasn’t saved.
I was even told that I could force it by reciting “She will come on a Honda” then speed it up, then eventually my mind would eventually be open to speaking in tongues.

Please I ask anyone responding to this thread do not say this becuase you are condemning a believer who has come to Jesus through faith alone.

I can count between the thumb on my left hand the thumb on my right hand the amount of times I have spoken in tongues.
And all of those times it just started flowing from me. This happened in my private time with God and boy did I feel so close to him.

I also remember one time and the only time I have experienced this in church.

Someone started to sing in tongues, and I though what a beatiful voice, then within a few minutes someone else stated singing as well also a beautiful voice (and I knew this person and beleive me I had heard him singing normally and it wasn’t beautiful)

And then they started interacting with each other and they were opposite sides of the church.

Then other people started to sing in English when the stopped. It was spontaneous.
I didn’t sing as I was enjoying it and found myself praising God with words.

It really was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced. Like a choir of angels.

To be honest I find it difficult to believe that the gifts ceased with the apostles.
Signs and wonders were used to help establish the church and I beleive we need it today in our church.

I genuinely do not believe that God with give the church gifts for a set period of time then say “Ok that’s it just read the bible”

Anyway I would just like to say that a gift is given by God according to his purpose. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are gifts.
And If we don’t have the gift of tongues then we don’t it.
It doesn’t mean God loves us less or loves us more if we do.

Ben, I hope I haven’t detracted from your thread.

But I do ask whatever your thoughts please let us ensure we discuss without condemning.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,664
440
83
#19
Just to clarify are you saying an unknown tongue is a supernatural language?

The word unknown was added to by the KJV translators to specify foreign language hoping to clarify the passage, as in a foreign language being used in the assembly in Corinth, since Corinth was commercial city with different languages being spoken.


The real issue is whether or not tongues SHOULD BE USED in this manner.

1. There is NOT A SINGLE DIRECTIVE in Scripture to pray in any other language than the normal language which you use for everyday speech.

2. There is absolutely no merit awarded to anyone for praying in foreign languages or mouthing gibberish.

3. God is not glorified if a strange language is used to address Him, when Christ taught us to pray with simplicity and sincerity.

4. The meaning of 1 Corinthians 14:14,15 has been thoroughly perverted to accommodate modern "prayer language".

So what is Paul really teaching us here?

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

For if I pray in an unknown tongue: The Greek text says "if I pray in a language" [supernaturally]

my spirit prayeth: only my spirit is involved [and this is with respect to a genuine human language spoken supernaturally]

but my understanding is unfruitful: my mind and my thoughts are not involved

What is it then?: one could paraphrase this in modern parlance as "And that's a shame"

I will pray with the spirit: I will engage in genuine prayer, where my spirit communes with God

and I will pray with the understanding also: I will engage my mind and my thoughts in my praying.

So how can anyone claim that these verses are encouraging prayer language, when they are actually telling people to pray intelligently and intelligibly?
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
12,205
337
83
#20
Nice theory.

And now to practice - does anybody here have anything else than a free vocalization ability?


I'm looking for a definition for "free vocalization" and Im not finding one. Humor me and tell me what your definition is.Thanks.