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Pure speculation or fantasy wholly without biblical merit.
Even with explanation you cannot see the truth.
God the Father speaks to His children and His children know His voice. The Holy Spirit never speaks of Himself but only that which the Father has given Him.
It is the word of God that the Holy Spirit minister through. Leading and guiding into the truth. There is not one example in the entire bible where God spoke to His people in tongues. There is not one example of angels speaking in an angelic language to people.
Check what you got against the scripture and make certain you have the truth.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Even with explanation you cannot see the truth.
God the Father speaks to His children and His children know His voice. The Holy Spirit never speaks of Himself but only that which the Father has given Him.
It is the word of God that the Holy Spirit minister through. Leading and guiding into the truth. There is not one example in the entire bible where God spoke to His people in tongues. There is not one example of angels speaking in an angelic language to people.
Check what you got against the scripture and make certain you have the truth.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
J
that has been my point all along. Jesus did not teach it.
i believe in the teachings of Jesus and not adding or attempting to improve on His word. why would that ba a path to unbelief?
i have great big tall barriers. Satan can be around any corner, you never know. he can make you think the most evil thng is the sweetest thing. the bible instructs us to test all things. if Jesus did not teach it, then i will test it time and time again.
i believe in the teachings of Jesus and not adding or attempting to improve on His word. why would that ba a path to unbelief?
i have great big tall barriers. Satan can be around any corner, you never know. he can make you think the most evil thng is the sweetest thing. the bible instructs us to test all things. if Jesus did not teach it, then i will test it time and time again.
J
when Jesus walked the earth during His ministry. where does he teach this, he doesnt. the only way you can make your philosophy work is to go outside of that. that is something i will not do.
i dont think the barriers are pointless when they are put up to guard against laws of man that can lead us away from the teachings of Jesus.
i dont think the barriers are pointless when they are put up to guard against laws of man that can lead us away from the teachings of Jesus.
P
Paul also said "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth"
Why do you only care about part of what Paul said?
As for my highlighted portion of your quote, "maybe"? You don't know? Why not? Wisdom is a more desired gift than tongues. Why did you ask for the weakest, less desirable gift?
Let me ask you a question. Is the word of God perfect? Well, is it? Of course it is.
Tongues were a sign for unbelievers. They are no longer necessary today.
In 1 Corinithians 13 Paul is speaking about tongues. Make no mistake, that is the subject matter. What did he say? He said "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
The perfect word is here. Tongues are passe. Why don't you people grow up as Paul instructs you to?
Correct. They are here, but they aren't from God. If the people that have "tongues" today had asked instead for the gift of discernment, they would be able to see that as you and I do.
How do I know I'm right? Because I believe in, follow, and study the word of God. I asked for knowledge and understanding, wisdom, and He gave it to me. Does that mean I'm right? It means the word of God is right.
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" ............Let us reason together. You think that means sit down with God, maybe discuss something and have some give and take?
No, it means let us be right together. If you're doing something the word tells you not to, you're wrong. Know what Christ said about those that claimed to worship Him when it was pointed out to them the error of that effort?
He said "But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."
Is that really what you want to hear on that day? Well? Is it?
Why do you only care about part of what Paul said?
As for my highlighted portion of your quote, "maybe"? You don't know? Why not? Wisdom is a more desired gift than tongues. Why did you ask for the weakest, less desirable gift?
Let me ask you a question. Is the word of God perfect? Well, is it? Of course it is.
Tongues were a sign for unbelievers. They are no longer necessary today.
In 1 Corinithians 13 Paul is speaking about tongues. Make no mistake, that is the subject matter. What did he say? He said "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
The perfect word is here. Tongues are passe. Why don't you people grow up as Paul instructs you to?
Correct. They are here, but they aren't from God. If the people that have "tongues" today had asked instead for the gift of discernment, they would be able to see that as you and I do.
How do I know I'm right? Because I believe in, follow, and study the word of God. I asked for knowledge and understanding, wisdom, and He gave it to me. Does that mean I'm right? It means the word of God is right.
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" ............Let us reason together. You think that means sit down with God, maybe discuss something and have some give and take?
No, it means let us be right together. If you're doing something the word tells you not to, you're wrong. Know what Christ said about those that claimed to worship Him when it was pointed out to them the error of that effort?
He said "But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."
Is that really what you want to hear on that day? Well? Is it?
J
i dont get where your going with this reply?
free will can be used to follow our Lord or not follow our Lord. i agree but dont get the relevance.
i will, i will not - i call this making choices in how i live my life. nothing bold or powerful, everyone makes these choices.
and for the record, i make many wrong choices all the time.
free will can be used to follow our Lord or not follow our Lord. i agree but dont get the relevance.
i will, i will not - i call this making choices in how i live my life. nothing bold or powerful, everyone makes these choices.
and for the record, i make many wrong choices all the time.
You yourself referenced Mark 16.
You pose an interesting idea but you have to remember that the gifts didn't come to us until after Jesus ascended. Did He talk about the other gifts? Does that mean they are meaningless too? Or did God hold back some info until we had received that part of Him Who was to bring it?
Paul taught about the gifts. We learn more about them from him than we do from Christ. But, you seem to dismiss what Paul says on the single point that Paul is not Christ. That my friend I find horribly troublesome. Christ made Paul his mouthpiece, to give the church guidance on "where do we go from here".
I'm sorry your Christian experience stops at the crucifixion. Because there's a whole lot that went on from there - and still does.
You pose an interesting idea but you have to remember that the gifts didn't come to us until after Jesus ascended. Did He talk about the other gifts? Does that mean they are meaningless too? Or did God hold back some info until we had received that part of Him Who was to bring it?
Paul taught about the gifts. We learn more about them from him than we do from Christ. But, you seem to dismiss what Paul says on the single point that Paul is not Christ. That my friend I find horribly troublesome. Christ made Paul his mouthpiece, to give the church guidance on "where do we go from here".
I'm sorry your Christian experience stops at the crucifixion. Because there's a whole lot that went on from there - and still does.
Paul expounds upon what Christ did and said. When Paul says something that you feel cannot be traced back to Christ you dismiss it. The fact that Paul says something, and God thought it was important enough to include in His Word - then I think it's not Paul saying something un-Christ like, but our lack of understanding that just makes it seem that way.
There are a lot of falsified tongues out there, whether brought by human failing or satanic confusion. These are indeed just babble. Dangerous babble, if you ask me. That's why Paul said he'd rather people keep quiet than do it incorrectly. Look at all those here just in this forum for whom false babble has soured them towards the true. We who have the gift really must understand this, and do all we can to correct it. It is a huge stumbling stone among our brothers and sisters and it is up to us to remove it from their path.
But true tongues are indeed a song to the Lord. When I pray in them, I can't help but start singing.
But true tongues are indeed a song to the Lord. When I pray in them, I can't help but start singing.
J
then whats the point of having a bible and what was the point of Jesus and His teachings?
if the Almighty spoke to me directly it might make my head explode. Moses asked to see Him and our Lord replied all His glory could not be contained in the heavens and the earth.
i dont think it works this way, we call on the Lord whenever we want and He reveals all the answers while we do nothing. would your child learn anything if you took the test for them.
if the Almighty spoke to me directly it might make my head explode. Moses asked to see Him and our Lord replied all His glory could not be contained in the heavens and the earth.
i dont think it works this way, we call on the Lord whenever we want and He reveals all the answers while we do nothing. would your child learn anything if you took the test for them.
Jaybird,
Let me expand on this and try it from a different angle... IF, just assume for a moment if, tongues were real, what purpose would they serve and how?
Obviously there is public prophecy, which comes with strings attached... there must be an interpretation, and must not be anything new to scripture - one might consider it a current application of the existing Word of God. It serves as evidence of God, and as a faith-builder to us. This kind of tongue is one that would typically be gifted to only a few, to those with a calling for leadership. It is a leadership tool used among a group for team building, if I may. But, while this is more towards a calling than a spur of the moment gift, don't think it can't involve you if God needs it to.
The individual non-public tongue Paul wished everyone spoke - this private "prayer language" as we have come to know it... what purpose might that have? God tells us that by it, we speak mysteries. You know, there is a spiritual power in the spoken word... it sets loose and binds things both here and in the heavens. Suppose you are praying for a friend... you pray about the things you know about. But what about the things you don't know about - how do you speak prayer over that? The Holy Spirit knows. If only the Holy Spirit Who knows could speak thru me who doesn't... imagine that concept. It benefits not just the speaker and the receiver, but again grows faith among them.
Now, you're right, Jesus didn't say much other than the generic we will speak with new tongues. But Jesus did say that we will speak with new tongues. Paul, whom Jesus made a mouthpiece after His resurrection and after the Holy Spirit had come upon us, gives us guidelines on how what Jesus said is to be implemented. Used according to the guidelines, it is a very uplifting and powerful tool. Used according to Paul's guidelines.
How do we test that spirit? It must not contradict or add to God's Word, and it's ultimate glory must rise up the food chain all the way to Christ. Anything that falls short of those, suspect.
Paul never said anything that contradicted Christ. So it is up to you to resolve how they fit together, not if they fit together.
Let me expand on this and try it from a different angle... IF, just assume for a moment if, tongues were real, what purpose would they serve and how?
Obviously there is public prophecy, which comes with strings attached... there must be an interpretation, and must not be anything new to scripture - one might consider it a current application of the existing Word of God. It serves as evidence of God, and as a faith-builder to us. This kind of tongue is one that would typically be gifted to only a few, to those with a calling for leadership. It is a leadership tool used among a group for team building, if I may. But, while this is more towards a calling than a spur of the moment gift, don't think it can't involve you if God needs it to.
The individual non-public tongue Paul wished everyone spoke - this private "prayer language" as we have come to know it... what purpose might that have? God tells us that by it, we speak mysteries. You know, there is a spiritual power in the spoken word... it sets loose and binds things both here and in the heavens. Suppose you are praying for a friend... you pray about the things you know about. But what about the things you don't know about - how do you speak prayer over that? The Holy Spirit knows. If only the Holy Spirit Who knows could speak thru me who doesn't... imagine that concept. It benefits not just the speaker and the receiver, but again grows faith among them.
Now, you're right, Jesus didn't say much other than the generic we will speak with new tongues. But Jesus did say that we will speak with new tongues. Paul, whom Jesus made a mouthpiece after His resurrection and after the Holy Spirit had come upon us, gives us guidelines on how what Jesus said is to be implemented. Used according to the guidelines, it is a very uplifting and powerful tool. Used according to Paul's guidelines.
How do we test that spirit? It must not contradict or add to God's Word, and it's ultimate glory must rise up the food chain all the way to Christ. Anything that falls short of those, suspect.
Paul never said anything that contradicted Christ. So it is up to you to resolve how they fit together, not if they fit together.
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