Speaking in tongues
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You do not prove the existence of ongoing physical and purposeful events with testimonies. To offer such evidence in place of prima faciie is tantamount to an admission of the bogus nature of these so-called supernatural events.
People who attempt to use scriptures in place of physical evidence are using the same logic as flat-earthers when they attempt to prove their nonsense with the Bible. If we were living in an age of the miraclous this debate would have never even started!
People claiming God given supernatural abilities will have much to answer for when the faith shall be sight. (2nd Corin. 5:7)
People who attempt to use scriptures in place of physical evidence are using the same logic as flat-earthers when they attempt to prove their nonsense with the Bible. If we were living in an age of the miraclous this debate would have never even started!
People claiming God given supernatural abilities will have much to answer for when the faith shall be sight. (2nd Corin. 5:7)
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Yes ignoring the scriptures does not make what it instructs us not true . Its what the sign to the rebels, of Tongues is all about'
Perhaps we should start with the foundation for tongues that you keep avoiding . I will add (purple in parenthesis) to help make my point
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
For with stammering (Mocking lips ) lips and another tongue(other than Hebrew alone) will he speak to this people. To whom (those who refuse to hear the word of God prophecy) he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they ( would not hear. But the word of the Lord (prophecy) was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward,(indicating they are under the judgment of God ) and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord (prophecy ), ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,(oral tradition of men) and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Perhaps we should start with the foundation for tongues that you keep avoiding . I will add (purple in parenthesis) to help make my point
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
For with stammering (Mocking lips ) lips and another tongue(other than Hebrew alone) will he speak to this people. To whom (those who refuse to hear the word of God prophecy) he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they ( would not hear. But the word of the Lord (prophecy) was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward,(indicating they are under the judgment of God ) and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord (prophecy ), ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,(oral tradition of men) and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Again, these testimonies are not and can't be proof of anything, any keen person would realize something; the specific emphasis on 'speaking in tongues' and 'full immersion of water'. There's no specific connection between coming back to life and 'speaking in tongues' or 'FULL immersion in water' - it would be natural for a mother who lost her child that later came back to life to be lost for words let alone remember that they spoke in tongues, it is even astounding for one to put the word 'FULL' when talking about water baptism by immersion in water- it really sounds like an emphasized doctrine in a particular church.
In the two testimonies, it's like the speaking in tongues and full immersion in water baptism are being praised more than God who brought them back to life or even the happiness of a loved one coming back to life.
This is just my two cents at a glance.
In the two testimonies, it's like the speaking in tongues and full immersion in water baptism are being praised more than God who brought them back to life or even the happiness of a loved one coming back to life.
This is just my two cents at a glance.
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Which cemetery ?
I think you forgot to answer but did you look to see who the sign is in respect to and what it does confirm? We would not want to oppose the law of God or that's what I believe
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages other than Hebrew alone) and other lips (languages other than Hebrew alone) will I (not Peter or any man) speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues ((languages other than Hebrew alone) ) are for a "sign", not to them that believe(Christians) , but to them that believe not
prophecy) but prophesying (hearing the word of God) serveth not for them that believe not,(the word of God, prophecy)but for them which believe.
How would you address the (purple in parenthesis)?
I think you forgot to answer but did you look to see who the sign is in respect to and what it does confirm? We would not want to oppose the law of God or that's what I believe
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages other than Hebrew alone) and other lips (languages other than Hebrew alone) will I (not Peter or any man) speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues ((languages other than Hebrew alone) ) are for a "sign", not to them that believe(Christians) , but to them that believe not
prophecy) but prophesying (hearing the word of God) serveth not for them that believe not,(the word of God, prophecy)but for them which believe.How would you address the (purple in parenthesis)?
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Which cemetery ?
I think you forgot to answer but did you look to see who the sign is in respect to and what it does confirm? We would not want to oppose the law of God or that's what I believe
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages other than Hebrew alone) and other lips (languages other than Hebrew alone) will I (not Peter or any man) speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues ((languages other than Hebrew alone) ) are for a "sign", not to them that believe(Christians) , but to them that believe notprophecy) but prophesying (hearing the word of God) serveth not for them that believe not,(the word of God, prophecy)but for them which believe.
How would you address the (purple in parenthesis)?
I think you forgot to answer but did you look to see who the sign is in respect to and what it does confirm? We would not want to oppose the law of God or that's what I believe
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages other than Hebrew alone) and other lips (languages other than Hebrew alone) will I (not Peter or any man) speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues ((languages other than Hebrew alone) ) are for a "sign", not to them that believe(Christians) , but to them that believe not
prophecy) but prophesying (hearing the word of God) serveth not for them that believe not,(the word of God, prophecy)but for them which believe.How would you address the (purple in parenthesis)?
How about he prove his claim first?
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I'm so tempted to ask you if a donkey ever spoke to you (I'm totally joking with a grain of truth because you and I do not share an understanding of the scriptures with regards to tongues) some levity might help?
come on...no one is going where you are going
thing is, no matter what scripture is offered, it is promptly denied and you know this
I agree however that personal testimony is subjective and that is one of the reasons I rarely offer any
yet one more 'however' here....scripture does not indicate the cessation of tongues; threads about it always boil down to one or the other view; we probably all know that
IMO, we choose to accept what the Bible states, as is, where is, and that includes even what we do not understand or might not feel comfortable with. but it's not about our 'feelz'
it has become obvious to me (I'm speaking for myself so please understand it that way) that God in His mercy dispenses His gifts through His Spirit where He will to whom He will and we can accept that He does so, deny He does so, say He no longer does so and disparage all scripture presented to underscore that He, in fact, does do so
just the same as we can accept Jesus as our Savior or not
I do not believe anyone is saved except by the blood of Christ and I do not believe gifts are about salvation
however I certainly do believe that God still gives His gifts to those who are saved for the benefit of the same
we can refuse as I already said
further, I do not think or believe a person, church or body of believers, can actually sway, in truth, someone to doubt from scripture without plainly having a personal bias...and you can have that in either direction
truly without prejudice because I worry less and less that God Himself is ignorant of anything that transpires on this globe
He forces no one but can and does answer prayer whenever we prayed at the time that He decides is the right time
as when He sent His Son...He waited for the right time to send Him
I'm so tempted to ask you if a donkey ever spoke to you (I'm totally joking with a grain of truth because you and I do not share an understanding of the scriptures with regards to tongues) some levity might help?
If I said yes would it change anything? Would you accept the claim?
come on...no one is going where you are going
Where do you think I am going?
thing is, no matter what scripture is offered, it is promptly denied and you know this
Claims of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is not about scriptures and you know this. IOW scriptures are not valid evidence of occurances of current physical events.
If I said yes would it change anything? Would you accept the claim?
come on...no one is going where you are going
Where do you think I am going?
thing is, no matter what scripture is offered, it is promptly denied and you know this
Claims of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is not about scriptures and you know this. IOW scriptures are not valid evidence of occurances of current physical events.
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That is an interesting question. I think many have misconceptions of the term and definition contextually of what prophecy is as given in the Book of Acts and 1corinthains chapters 12, 13, and 14.
Prophecy in the Old Testament means prophecy which is Prophetic writings 2chron 9:29
Prophecy also is a Burden = Pro 31:1
Prophecy also is a Prophet = Dan 9:24 in relation to the one speaking prophetically
Once we see the word in the New Testament it now take on something less in the office of a prophet more of what the Holy Spirit has inspired on to say.
Matt 13:14 =prophēteia a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God,
This is the norm until :
2Pet 1:19 = prophetikos which is proceeding from a prophet.
Prophesying in the Old Testament is “ prophesy under influence of divine spirit
In each time this word is used in the Old Testament the meaning is the above given.
Now in the new Testament :
1cor 11:4 says
to prophesy = to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation , to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
Prophesying does not make you a prophet and it is not giving new revelation but confirming what has been said already it is just NEW to the hearer. The Holy Spirit inspires the person to speak what the word of God says to help, heal, encourage, uplift, edify, comfort, build up. IT is not a NEW word it is the Word that has already been spoken by God and IS still True today.
God saves today, yet HE said He will save long ago, God heals , God provides , God gives gifts, God is the “Speaking God “ and HE speaks in many ways and HIS word Confirms it.
Creation, the heavens and the earth declare our God word. The Holy Spirit brings into remembrance the word of God.
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If someone wants to see my essay late 1980s on the on: "The Gift of Tongues - - A non-charismatic understanding", they will have to ask me to post it. It is only from the Non-Charismatic point of view, and would be an excellent example of why we believe the True gift was an Apostolic gift only, and that today's experience is a counterfeit. HOWEVER, it is rather lengthy essay, as I spent 6 months of reading a large number of books, and tapes on the subject before I sat down to write the essay. If I remember right, it is 12 pages of number #10 fonts, so I will have to break it up into approximately 5 posts. So ASK, if you want to see it posted here.