Speaking in tongues

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SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
156
107
28
Please reread some of your posts. You are the one who seems mad, and are definitely being rude.

You do not have to agree with me. This is not a salvation issue.

If it was not possible to consider that the original outpouring of the Holy Spirit occurred in the temple, then I would not believe it. But according to the scriptures, I think it is possible, in fact highly likely, that they were in the temple.
I expected your rebuttal in that way in the first part of your remarks above.
Rude is the one like you who insists over and over again that your thoughts should add to God's word.

That you don't think discussions of this nature are a salvation issue says all it needs to about your lack of awareness concerning Salvation.
You are very arrogant for one who is so very wrong. God's word does not agree with you. And here you are telling us that God's word should agree with you.

It lacks awareness of the part the Pharisee and Sadducee played in the crucifixion of Jesus to argue what you prefer to read in God's word.
Good luck with that. Especially at the judgment.
 
W

whatev

Guest
read the Book of Acts , see in context how the gifts of the Holy Spirit were used. All the gifts. Then read all of 1cor . and see what is said there. Pray and formulate what you believe the Lord has said about this topic. I can tell what I think & believe but I'm certain if you are a saved Christian, The Lord will help you.

God bless
I did a study once on all those people at Pentecost that Luke was naming. I couldn't figure out what languages they spoke back then, but I was shocked how far they came to be in Jerusalem for the high feast. In today's names for the places they lived, they came from Crimea to the North, which is just below Russia. They came from just west of India, and as far away as Greece to the east. And from the south, Ethiopia. If you look at a map, and see all those places, it's a huge journey they undertook.

And if you look on a map to judge by today's languages, that's still a multitude of languages descending into one spot. It struck me something like all the people in the UN lost their interpreters, and yet they all heard the same message.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
460
83
I expected your rebuttal in that way in the first part of your remarks above.
Rude is the one like you who insists over and over again that your thoughts should add to God's word.
That is something I have never done.

That you don't think discussions of this nature are a salvation issue says all it needs to about your lack of awareness concerning Salvation.
What church do you attend that believes it's a salvation issue as to where the Holy Spirit was first given?

You are very arrogant for one who is so very wrong.
Hypocrite.

God's word does not agree with you. And here you are telling us that God's word should agree with you.
I have said no such thing.

It lacks awareness of the part the Pharisee and Sadducee played in the crucifixion of Jesus to argue what you prefer to read in God's word.
I understand the part the Pharisees and Sadducees played in Jesus' crucifixion.

Good luck with that. Especially at the judgment.
Maybe we should just part ways. You seem incapable of interacting with me without lying.
 

SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
156
107
28
I have contempt for anyone who mocks the word of God. Too bad you attack those who honor the word and call out the contemptuous.
Report me. When Waggles is lacking in manners you and the other one seem to side with them. You even defend when they put words in God's mouth!
How many forums have tolerated that? THAT is a bannable offense.
If a Troll like Waggles is tolerated here and even defended, I'd say that would be coming from other Trolls aligned with Waggle. Or, with those who aren't really here for the sake of Christian community in the first place.

I'm leaving. This place is highly toxic. If you doubt that, look in the mirror as you write and defend Waggles and others here who lie about God's word and make it their own imagination.

Then I dare you to look on Google for Christianchat reviews.

This place SUCKS!

And a whole lot of people are talking about it. You and Waggles and others, are why. It is a privilege to have members. It is a duty for Christians to report bad sites. Toodles.

Waggles? I know you from Thinking Atheist when I lurked there. You ain't fooling them. But you are fooling the fools here. Obviously.
Don't leave mad and have your peace disturbed by what even I see is an active practice of hoping to accomplish that very thing when addressing Christians here.

I'm friends with someone who was at the death bed of David Cassidy. Some may know the name but the reason I mention it is to share the last words he uttered in this life. "So much lost time."

I recalled that when I read your post. Then I considered how very sad it was that David was conscious of that fact of his life. And yet was speaking it with his last breaths.
I am brought to think of the time I spend sitting in my office after work here at home and on forums like this. I sought them out hoping to find Christian brothers and sisters sharing in the Holy Spirit led love and peace we are to have in Christ. Discussing the Bible, sharing what it says and what it means to each one of us personally. Like a sharing of testimonies.

Instead, what I find is anything but peace. I'm even led to get frustrated reading what is impossible to overlook and ignore in the tenor of certain peoples remarks.
We sit at our computers, or we even use minutes on our phones, regardless if we have an unlimited plan, to enmesh ourselves in a forum of conflicts , false people claiming Christ but actually are on the web to bring chaos to Christians. Some spend years of their life on forums like this. Some have their emotions fluctuate like a roller coaster ride hoping to reach people who's Exegesis is flawed. Some should realize it isn't that that individuals Exegesis is flawed in so much as they don't even know the meaning of that word. They thrive on devaluing God's word with false assertions as to what it means to say.
And yet in the spirit of the Holy's leading many of the Christians on any forum still work to lead that errant one to know the truth. But how can anyone know that when they aren't living it?

The Bible wasn't meant to be comprehended by unbelievers. Scriptures tell us, God does not hear the prayers of sinners. Those who are lost to him. Makes sense. God said he calls whom he wills to receive his Son. He knew us by name and we were his before he even created this planet. The sinners prayer is a man made fiction. It makes it seem like people are able to persuade God. Whereas God says he chooses us first. He knows all things. Yet there are those who think we can choose to leave him.
So silly.

And so much wasted time trying to correct people. When God knows his own.
What is the point of a Christian forum? I've been here a very short while and contrary to the accusatory demeanor of one here, I am not a banned member who is still steamed about it. I'm a new arrival who's not impressed in the least by someone who tells a Christian bye bye, after attacking them in defense of a very offensive member who very well could be their other account.
Tally the people here who are vicious rather than compassionate. And pride-filled as they feel no remorse.

I've called out Trolls and Atheist posers here. God tells us to do that.

Go with God dear Sugar_Orchid. I don't blame you for deciding not to waste more time here. You're hated as you can read. Hate doesn't harm the object hated. It harms the one who hates. Medical science has shown that when someone feels hate they release chemicals into their body that deteriorate the health, and effect particularly the heart and brain.
Hate filled people think they win when they cause someone to leave a place. Or they later ban them after saying bye bye in their other account disguise.
Sadly, they'll know they're wrong when it is too late.
Prayerfully that won't be on their own death bed. Where with their last breath or last brain activity realize what David did. "So much lost time."

Btw Orchid, I did what you suggested. That Google search? I had to stop reading after following first page links.
Very sad. God bless you. And God be with every member of His church who loses time. Amen.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,838
4,331
113
Do you ask God to forgive your hateful bullying behaviors here? Your threatening demeanor?

oh dear

you have had it in for me ever since I disagreed with you in the dreams thread

that is actually the only thing I remember you from

tell you what...stop liking some of my posts in that case

and your shoes must be too tight LOL!
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,838
4,331
113
I expected your rebuttal in that way in the first part of your remarks above.
Rude is the one like you who insists over and over again that your thoughts should add to God's word.

That you don't think discussions of this nature are a salvation issue says all it needs to about your lack of awareness concerning Salvation.
You are very arrogant for one who is so very wrong. God's word does not agree with you. And here you are telling us that God's word should agree with you.

It lacks awareness of the part the Pharisee and Sadducee played in the crucifixion of Jesus to argue what you prefer to read in God's word.
Good luck with that. Especially at the judgment.
since you arrived, you have insulted anyone who disagrees with you...as you did with me...and here you are insulting someone else

dude I know you won't take any advice because you know it all, but you are one uptight person who probably believes their feet don't touch the ground when they walk

that, and the fact you like taking potshots and sniping at people.

here you are doing what you say others are doing

I really do not care, but just to point out to you how hypocritical you are being

putting you on ignore dude.

one more thing...tongues are not a salvation issue. you may be one of the very rare people who actually think so

you tell someone to have good luck at the judgement? but my posts are off beat?

you can't make this stuff up
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,642
3,453
113
No it isn't.

In the Bible, angels has to do with ... angels. Not things men do that may be "eloquent".
No one knows if there is a heavenly language, or the language that is pre-Tower of Babel, and I am of the opinion, that GOD put into ADAM the pre-TOWER of Babel language spoken in heaven too, which seems MORE LIKELY than the mysterious heavenly Language THEORY.

Yes it is, the VOICE of Authority, with an eloquence beyond normal speech, was how Men perceived them, but it obviously was an Earthly language.

Matthew 1:20-25 (ASV)
20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.
24 And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife;
25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.

The Angel Commanded that Voice of Authority.

AND, I think MARY would argue with you:

Luke 1:26-35 (ASV)
26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee.
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this might be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 And Mary said unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.

Okay, even MARY noticed the difference in his Voice.

Genesis 21:17 (ASV)
17 And God heard the voice of the lad. And the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? Fear not. For God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.


Merriam-Webster, defines Eloquence definition is - discourse marked by force and persuasiveness.

What do you call that?

Now here is possibly the Pre-Incarnate Christ:

Genesis 22:11-12 (ASV)
11 And the angel of Jehovah called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham. And he said, Here I am.
12 And he said, Lay not thy hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him. For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me.

Now that is the ULTIMATE UNDERSTATEMENT, because I have heard the voice of the LORD at least Twice in my life. I guarantee you that Abraham was shaking in his bootstraps. Both times I guarantee you that I WAS.

One time when my wife and I were just a few short years into our marriage. My wife got addicted to pain pills, and I had all kinds of people praying for her. Even her Mother came over to stay with her for awhile. One mourning as she got up, she SAW her mother Praying for Her. My wife broke down in mournful TEARS, and fell on her knees to begging the Lord to take the addiction away. YES HE DID. From a lethal dose for most people (that indicates that she was addicted for quite awhile because she built up a tolerance), TO ZERO, WITH NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS. When we went to her Dr. to explain why she did not need the Rehab Center now. Her Doctor just snapped back "If you believe that you are either a FOOL or a LIAR." And I knew then that her Doctor was a non-christian. So he insisted she would have to go thru Rehab. A few days into that NON-CHRISTIAN Rehab, I got called in for a Group Therapy Session. There were two Counselors and the rest of the GROUP. And they were itching to start with my wife and I, as she told me they were making fun of her faith. AND YES, THEY DID. They were making fun that we thought we could Trust the LORD, instead of them. ALL OF A SUDDEN A BOOMING VOICE CAME INTO TO MY HEAD, AND SAID JUST ONE WORD, WALK ! ! ! I CAME OUT OF THAT CHAIR AS IF IT HAD BEEN ELECTRIFIED, I MEAN THEIR WAS NO WAY I COULD NOT MAKE MY MUSCLES NOT OBEY THAT VOICE. I looked over to my wife and said, "ARE YOU READY." AND SHE SAID "YES." When we got out to my Jeep, there was a flat tire, so I busied myself to changing the tire, and I had not asked her what had just happened. Just as I was about to tighten the last lug nut, she got out of the care and came back to the left rear tire where I was, so I asked, "Did you hear anything in that room?" She said, "Just one word, WALK ! ! !" I said, "THAT IS IT, we are out of here!"

About 10 years later, when we were living in Crescent City, California, I was driving by myself back to Nebraska, by myself. I was going to pick up Grand-kids to come out to the coast for a vacation. I spent the first night in a MOTEL in Elko, NV. The next mourning as I was on the on ramp to I-80, I noticed a hitch hiker as, so I stirred to the left giving him enough room and sped up, not intending to pick him up. I was at merging speed 65 m.p.h., when that same BOOMING VOICE SHOUTED, "PICK HIM UP ! ! !" I MEAN the FASTEST that I stopped from 65 m.p.h., with all four wheels screaming on the pavement. INSTANT MUSCLE REACTION AND EVERYTHING. I was sitting in the car SHAKING, when the hitch hiker ran up to where my car was, opened the door, and asked "Are you stopping to give me a ride?" I said, "Yeah, you get in the car, because GOD JUST TOLD ME TO "PICK YOU UP ! ! !" To make A LONG STORY SHORT, I was blessed by leading him to the LORD that DAY.

So you can see, you will have NO CHANCE that Angels speak in an Non-Eloquent voice, especially when I see JOHN in his Vision or Reality bowing to an angel.

Revelation 19:9-10 (NIV)
9 Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!'" And he added, "These are the true words of God."
10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
5,561
1,725
113
Guys (and ladies), I understand that tongues is a hot button topic within Christianity since on one extreme there are the Cessationists and on the opposite extreme are those who believe that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of salvation and then of course there are myriad viewpoints in the middle.

That being said it is entirely possible to discuss this topic without insulting or belittling other users that don't share your viewpoint.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Guys (and ladies), I understand that tongues is a hot button topic within Christianity since on one extreme there are the Cessationists and on the opposite extreme are those who believe that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of salvation and then of course there are myriad viewpoints in the middle.

That being said it is entirely possible to discuss this topic without insulting or belittling other users that don't share your viewpoint.
Yeah not easy though,as you know often there are instigators and prideful people involved in just about every bible subject.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
460
83
No one knows if there is a heavenly language, or the language that is pre-Tower of Babel, and I am of the opinion, that GOD put into ADAM the pre-TOWER of Babel language spoken in heaven too, which seems MORE LIKELY than the mysterious heavenly Language THEORY.

Yes it is, the VOICE of Authority, with an eloquence beyond normal speech, was how Men perceived them, but it obviously was an Earthly language.

Matthew 1:20-25 (ASV)
20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.
24 And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife;
25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.

The Angel Commanded that Voice of Authority.

AND, I think MARY would argue with you:

Luke 1:26-35 (ASV)
26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee.
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this might be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 And Mary said unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.

Okay, even MARY noticed the difference in his Voice.

Genesis 21:17 (ASV)
17 And God heard the voice of the lad. And the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? Fear not. For God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.


Merriam-Webster, defines Eloquence definition is - discourse marked by force and persuasiveness.

What do you call that?

Now here is possibly the Pre-Incarnate Christ:

Genesis 22:11-12 (ASV)
11 And the angel of Jehovah called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham. And he said, Here I am.
12 And he said, Lay not thy hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him. For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me.

Now that is the ULTIMATE UNDERSTATEMENT, because I have heard the voice of the LORD at least Twice in my life. I guarantee you that Abraham was shaking in his bootstraps. Both times I guarantee you that I WAS.

One time when my wife and I were just a few short years into our marriage. My wife got addicted to pain pills, and I had all kinds of people praying for her. Even her Mother came over to stay with her for awhile. One mourning as she got up, she SAW her mother Praying for Her. My wife broke down in mournful TEARS, and fell on her knees to begging the Lord to take the addiction away. YES HE DID. From a lethal dose for most people (that indicates that she was addicted for quite awhile because she built up a tolerance), TO ZERO, WITH NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS. When we went to her Dr. to explain why she did not need the Rehab Center now. Her Doctor just snapped back "If you believe that you are either a FOOL or a LIAR." And I knew then that her Doctor was a non-christian. So he insisted she would have to go thru Rehab. A few days into that NON-CHRISTIAN Rehab, I got called in for a Group Therapy Session. There were two Counselors and the rest of the GROUP. And they were itching to start with my wife and I, as she told me they were making fun of her faith. AND YES, THEY DID. They were making fun that we thought we could Trust the LORD, instead of them. ALL OF A SUDDEN A BOOMING VOICE CAME INTO TO MY HEAD, AND SAID JUST ONE WORD, WALK ! ! ! I CAME OUT OF THAT CHAIR AS IF IT HAD BEEN ELECTRIFIED, I MEAN THEIR WAS NO WAY I COULD NOT MAKE MY MUSCLES NOT OBEY THAT VOICE. I looked over to my wife and said, "ARE YOU READY." AND SHE SAID "YES." When we got out to my Jeep, there was a flat tire, so I busied myself to changing the tire, and I had not asked her what had just happened. Just as I was about to tighten the last lug nut, she got out of the care and came back to the left rear tire where I was, so I asked, "Did you hear anything in that room?" She said, "Just one word, WALK ! ! !" I said, "THAT IS IT, we are out of here!"

About 10 years later, when we were living in Crescent City, California, I was driving by myself back to Nebraska, by myself. I was going to pick up Grand-kids to come out to the coast for a vacation. I spent the first night in a MOTEL in Elko, NV. The next mourning as I was on the on ramp to I-80, I noticed a hitch hiker as, so I stirred to the left giving him enough room and sped up, not intending to pick him up. I was at merging speed 65 m.p.h., when that same BOOMING VOICE SHOUTED, "PICK HIM UP ! ! !" I MEAN the FASTEST that I stopped from 65 m.p.h., with all four wheels screaming on the pavement. INSTANT MUSCLE REACTION AND EVERYTHING. I was sitting in the car SHAKING, when the hitch hiker ran up to where my car was, opened the door, and asked "Are you stopping to give me a ride?" I said, "Yeah, you get in the car, because GOD JUST TOLD ME TO "PICK YOU UP ! ! !" To make A LONG STORY SHORT, I was blessed by leading him to the LORD that DAY.

So you can see, you will have NO CHANCE that Angels speak in an Non-Eloquent voice, especially when I see JOHN in his Vision or Reality bowing to an angel.

Revelation 19:9-10 (NIV)
9 Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!'" And he added, "These are the true words of God."
10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Your testimonies are awesome, VCO. Thanks for sharing them.

But they really have nothing to do with the manifestation of speaking in tongues, which can be a language of men or of angels.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,618
4,083
113
...which can be a language of men or of angels.
Since there is no language of angels in Scripture that we know of, this was simply hyperbole to indicate even EVEN IF mortal men could speak angelic language, it would be of no avail without agape (charity, love).

As to actual tongues, had the KJV translators been living in our day, they would not have used the word "tongues". It would always and consistently be "languages" meaning human languages as listed in Acts 2.

There is no such thing as "prayer language" in Scripture. If anyone could have -- or would have -- used prayer language it would have been Christ. But He used plain human Aramaic to communicate with the Father. If some Christians use special prayer language while others don't, then we have first class and second class Christians.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
460
83
Since there is no language of angels in Scripture that we know of, this was simply hyperbole to indicate even EVEN IF mortal men could speak angelic language, it would be of no avail without agape (charity, love).
That's a typical reasoning of cessationists. I understand it more literally. But you are right, everything must be done in love.

As to actual tongues, had the KJV translators been living in our day, they would not have used the word "tongues". It would always and consistently be "languages" meaning human languages as listed in Acts 2.
I agree that tongues means languages. And on the day of Pentecost, the languages the apostles were speaking were the languages of the other people present. That is not guaranteed, and almost never happens, which is why in 1 Cor 14, Paul says that whenever tongues is spoken in public, it must be interpreted.

There is no such thing as "prayer language" in Scripture.
Speaking in tongues (languages) is also called praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:15).

If anyone could have -- or would have -- used prayer language it would have been Christ. But He used plain human Aramaic to communicate with the Father.
It was not possible to speak in tongues before the day of Pentecost. Christ had already ascended.

If some Christians use special prayer language while others don't, then we have first class and second class Christians.
No we don't.

1 Cor 12:
7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Eph 6:
18) Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Jude:
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,838
4,331
113
speaking in tongues is not indicated as a salvic issue in scripture and should not be considered such

there are people in the NT who were saved and did not speak in tongues but did later on...notice they were still saved and they were still saved after

most people who do speak in tongues, do not believe that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved and it is also probably true the other way

no gifts of the Holy Spirit save a person so it is useless to even base objections on that presumption IMO

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
I think the Bible indicates the truth right here as quoted from the post above. ^^^^^^^^^^
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,642
3,453
113
Guys (and ladies), I understand that tongues is a hot button topic within Christianity since on one extreme there are the Cessationists and on the opposite extreme are those who believe that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of salvation and then of course there are myriad viewpoints in the middle.

That being said it is entirely possible to discuss this topic without insulting or belittling other users that don't share your viewpoint.
I wish you all the luck, and spiritual guidance to fulfill that mission. I have seen it becoming the opposite of that way to often. May I suggestion, that we all just AGREE TO DISAGREE, when we see it getting a little bit out of control.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
No one knows if there is a heavenly language, or the language that is pre-Tower of Babel, and I am of the opinion, that GOD put into ADAM the pre-TOWER of Babel language spoken in heaven too, which seems MORE LIKELY than the mysterious heavenly Language THEORY.

Yes it is, the VOICE of Authority, with an eloquence beyond normal speech, was how Men perceived them, but it obviously was an Earthly language.

Matthew 1:20-25 (ASV)
20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.
24 And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife;
25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS.

The Angel Commanded that Voice of Authority.

AND, I think MARY would argue with you:

Luke 1:26-35 (ASV)
26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee.
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this might be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 And Mary said unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.

Okay, even MARY noticed the difference in his Voice.

Genesis 21:17 (ASV)
17 And God heard the voice of the lad. And the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? Fear not. For God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.


Merriam-Webster, defines Eloquence definition is - discourse marked by force and persuasiveness.

What do you call that?

Now here is possibly the Pre-Incarnate Christ:

Genesis 22:11-12 (ASV)
11 And the angel of Jehovah called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham. And he said, Here I am.
12 And he said, Lay not thy hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him. For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me.

Now that is the ULTIMATE UNDERSTATEMENT, because I have heard the voice of the LORD at least Twice in my life. I guarantee you that Abraham was shaking in his bootstraps. Both times I guarantee you that I WAS.

One time when my wife and I were just a few short years into our marriage. My wife got addicted to pain pills, and I had all kinds of people praying for her. Even her Mother came over to stay with her for awhile. One mourning as she got up, she SAW her mother Praying for Her. My wife broke down in mournful TEARS, and fell on her knees to begging the Lord to take the addiction away. YES HE DID. From a lethal dose for most people (that indicates that she was addicted for quite awhile because she built up a tolerance), TO ZERO, WITH NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS. When we went to her Dr. to explain why she did not need the Rehab Center now. Her Doctor just snapped back "If you believe that you are either a FOOL or a LIAR." And I knew then that her Doctor was a non-christian. So he insisted she would have to go thru Rehab. A few days into that NON-CHRISTIAN Rehab, I got called in for a Group Therapy Session. There were two Counselors and the rest of the GROUP. And they were itching to start with my wife and I, as she told me they were making fun of her faith. AND YES, THEY DID. They were making fun that we thought we could Trust the LORD, instead of them. ALL OF A SUDDEN A BOOMING VOICE CAME INTO TO MY HEAD, AND SAID JUST ONE WORD, WALK ! ! ! I CAME OUT OF THAT CHAIR AS IF IT HAD BEEN ELECTRIFIED, I MEAN THEIR WAS NO WAY I COULD NOT MAKE MY MUSCLES NOT OBEY THAT VOICE. I looked over to my wife and said, "ARE YOU READY." AND SHE SAID "YES." When we got out to my Jeep, there was a flat tire, so I busied myself to changing the tire, and I had not asked her what had just happened. Just as I was about to tighten the last lug nut, she got out of the care and came back to the left rear tire where I was, so I asked, "Did you hear anything in that room?" She said, "Just one word, WALK ! ! !" I said, "THAT IS IT, we are out of here!"

About 10 years later, when we were living in Crescent City, California, I was driving by myself back to Nebraska, by myself. I was going to pick up Grand-kids to come out to the coast for a vacation. I spent the first night in a MOTEL in Elko, NV. The next mourning as I was on the on ramp to I-80, I noticed a hitch hiker as, so I stirred to the left giving him enough room and sped up, not intending to pick him up. I was at merging speed 65 m.p.h., when that same BOOMING VOICE SHOUTED, "PICK HIM UP ! ! !" I MEAN the FASTEST that I stopped from 65 m.p.h., with all four wheels screaming on the pavement. INSTANT MUSCLE REACTION AND EVERYTHING. I was sitting in the car SHAKING, when the hitch hiker ran up to where my car was, opened the door, and asked "Are you stopping to give me a ride?" I said, "Yeah, you get in the car, because GOD JUST TOLD ME TO "PICK YOU UP ! ! !" To make A LONG STORY SHORT, I was blessed by leading him to the LORD that DAY.

So you can see, you will have NO CHANCE that Angels speak in an Non-Eloquent voice, especially when I see JOHN in his Vision or Reality bowing to an angel.

Revelation 19:9-10 (NIV)
9 Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!'" And he added, "These are the true words of God."
10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
There's no such thing as heavenly or angelic language. Angels have spoken to kings and many people in their own languages in the past. Language is used for communication and communication is for understanding- there's one understanding in heaven; meaning that angels have tasks that they already knew from the beginning because the word of God at the right time is revealed to them as to instruct them. Angels don't chat and gossip using a 'heavenly language', they have an understanding as what they are supposed to do, they don't ask questions or ask for directions, it is the Lord operating in them.

Paul used it as a hyperbole just like:

Matt 6:28 And why do you worry about clothes? Consider how the lilies of the field grow: They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all hisglory was adorned like one of these.

Doesn't mean that nobody ever wore like Solomon, it also doesn't mean that the lilies of field have a dress code. It emphasizes against worry of dressing just like Paul was emphasizing against being extravagant with tongues that won't help anyone. Paul mentions angelic language as something that is top most just as Solomon's dress code was being mentioned.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I agree that tongues means languages. And on the day of Pentecost, the languages the apostles were speaking were the languages of the other people present. That is not guaranteed, and almost never happens, which is why in 1 Cor 14, Paul says that whenever tongues is spoken in public, it must be interpreted.
God (not seen) is the one interpreter his word. Not of men seen. (God is not served by human hands, as a will) The words that came from their mouths were not Peters thoughts or of Paul. But God's word "prophecy"

Tongues a understandable languages to the hearers spoken to God's people is clearly interpreted by God in other languages .No human endeavor as if he was served by human hands as an interpreter . He is the interpreter. (no private interpretation)

It is a sign against those who believe not the word of God as that which was spoke in Hebrews alone previously. The sign confirms their denial of God unbelief.

For with stammering (mocking) lips and another tongue ( other than Hebrews alone ) will he speak to this people.(gentiles) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:Isaish 28 11-15

Some people turn that upside down and make it a sign to confirm they made a noise or were slain in the spirit falling back as some sort of outward evidence to something

When Peter spoke in Hebrew, God interpreted it in any language His soul desired .

When two people of different languages communicated together. Both parties received the hearing of it in their own language, again as God brought his prophecy into both of their ears. The gift was most like more used by Paul because of where God sent him to bring the gospel . (multiple languages) two way communicated to make sure both heard each other

Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 1 Cor.14:11)

Because new prophecy has ceased tongues as prophecy in other languages has also ceased.

Many simply need to go above that which is written .It's what the sign is against to begin with. Men refusing to hear prophecy alone .

Today they have electronic devices that will interpret one langue to another in real time I think on manufacture call it "Babel"
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
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God (not seen) is the one interpreter his word. Not of men seen. (God is not served by human hands, as a will) The words that came from their mouths were not Peters thoughts or of Paul. But God's word "prophecy"

Tongues a understandable languages to the hearers spoken to God's people is clearly interpreted by God in other languages .No human endeavor as if he was served by human hands as an interpreter . He is the interpreter. (no private interpretation)

It is a sign against those who believe not the word of God as that which was spoke in Hebrews alone previously. The sign confirms their denial of God unbelief.

For with stammering (mocking) lips and another tongue ( other than Hebrews alone ) will he speak to this people.(gentiles) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:Isaish 28 11-15

Some people turn that upside down and make it a sign to confirm they made a noise or were slain in the spirit falling back as some sort of outward evidence to something

When Peter spoke in Hebrew, God interpreted it in any language His soul desired .

When two people of different languages communicated together. Both parties received the hearing of it in their own language, again as God brought his prophecy into both of their ears. The gift was most like more used by Paul because of where God sent him to bring the gospel . (multiple languages) two way communicated to make sure both heard each other

Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 1 Cor.14:11)

Because new prophecy has ceased tongues as prophecy in other languages has also ceased.

Many simply need to go above that which is written .It's what the sign is against to begin with. Men refusing to hear prophecy alone .

Today they have electronic devices that will interpret one langue to another in real time I think on manufacture call it "Babel"
Repeating error over and over and over again does not make it true, garee.

Tongues is not prophesy. Never has been, never will be.

Prophesy has not ceased, and neither has tongues.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Repeating error over and over and over again does not make it true, garee.

Tongues is not prophesy. Never has been, never will be.

Prophesy has not ceased, and neither has tongues.
Both ceased, so is raising of the dead and healing.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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None have ceased yet.

I'm sorry for your lack of understanding.

But it is what it is.
Prediction of Trump presidency is not prophesy, it is like weather forecast. Everything about the kingdom of God was already said and now is only the fulfillment. The entire bible is about the kingdom of God and so is all prophesy.

If raising of the dead ceased, i don't see why tongues or healing should continue- it is the same spirit that raised the dead, isn't He?

Does your church raise the dead?