Speaking in tongues

[yellowcanary]

If the miraculous age of the 1st century never ended would these debates even occur?

No .. these debates would not occur. Nothing was left to question during the apostolic era because the evidence bore witness to the truth. Even the unbelievers couldn't deny that the miraculous had occurred. Today, the claim is made that we don't see it because our faith is lacking. We refuse to believe the testimony of other Christians. What I find peculiar is that even those who claim to speak in tongues today can't come to agreement amongst themselves on what they are and what they're intended for. Each group seems to believe that their version is the correct version and rightly practiced and warns of those who fake ... even admitting that this occurs often. Each group also claims that it is they who are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Our Father and God, the very God who calls us to "come, let us reason together" ... and Who has clearly taught us that "He is not the author of confusion" ... yes, He desires us to sift thru this rubbled mess of pentecostal/charismatic chaos so that we might converse to Him in a language of angels that we ourselves don't understand ? But hey ... we'll be speaking mysteries, won't we ? Mysteries to who ? Certainly not to God. It's so ridiculous, it's hardly a wonder that many refuse to listen to the intended gospel message of Jesus Christ our Lord. I find it childish at best and dangerously harmful to the gospels sake in every other aspect.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No .. these debates would not occur. Nothing was left to question during the apostolic era because the evidence bore witness to the truth. Even the unbelievers couldn't deny that the miraculous had occurred. Today, the claim is made that we don't see it because our faith is lacking. We refuse to believe the testimony of other Christians. What I find peculiar is that even those who claim to speak in tongues today can't come to agreement amongst themselves on what they are and what they're intended for.

Each group seems to believe that their version is the correct version and rightly practiced and warns of those who fake ... even admitting that this occurs often. Each group also claims that it is they who are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Our Father and God, the very God who calls us to "come, let us reason together" ... and Who has clearly taught us that "He is not the author of confusion" ... yes, He desires us to sift thru this rubbled mess of pentecostal/charismatic chaos so that we might converse to Him in a language of angels that we ourselves don't understand ?

But hey ... we'll be speaking mysteries, won't we ? Mysteries to who ? Certainly not to God. It's so ridiculous, it's hardly a wonder that many refuse to listen to the intended gospel message of Jesus Christ our Lord. I find it childish at best and dangerously harmful to the gospels sake in every other aspect.

first off, I added paragraphs so people don't go cross-eyed

you lump everyone together, which is a mistake made by those who tend to just write off what they do not believe in

that is your first mistake

the rest of your post is erroneous because you have written millions of people off

but hey, it's your opinion after all

no...those who understand the biblical instructions regarding gifts and do not abuse them, do not have anything to sift through nor are we under obligation to provide those who scoff with enough faith to approach God themself on the matter

what we have here, is just another 'hand me down' I don't believe so anyone who does is wrong, agenda

the bias grows from the root of human reasoning and is watered and encouraged by those who do not have and apparently do not want, what scripture indicates is a gift from God

the Holy Spirit is not limping along on crutches because you cannot comprehend what is written to those who actually believe

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If the miraculous age of the 1st century never ended would these debates even occur?

this one sentence just screams ignorance concerning the events in scripture

Jesus Himself was debated all over the globe and still is

never mind any gifts

talk about a stumbling block that reveals pride and the 'no one is going to rule over me attitude' that is displayed in ignorance and arrogance and exemplifies rebellion at work in hearts opposed to God

those who speak against the Holy Spirit are opposed to God

speaking against the gifts is opposition to God. better to just leave it if you don't understand it.

time will show this to be true.

 

[notuptome]

well, yellowcanary, that is actually not true

scripture has been presented over and over and over...you would not know that since you are new here

scripture is not a personal point of view

perhaps you might understand that DJ2 is defending what are his personal convictions, which do not line up with scripture

if you align yourself with his beliefs, you are not in the position to correct scripture either

do a search on the threads on tongues in this forum.

Not like the same is said of the Pentecostal side of the debate. Pick and choose which you will believe and disregard the ones you do not wish to believe.

51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 ¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

we all have to stand before God one day, so if we lie here we will have to account for it

those who say others lie when they are in fact speaking by the Holy Spirit and testifying of truthful events also will have to give an account why they opposed the work of the Holy Spirit

that is what it all actually boils down to

I am not given to superfluous displays of emotion but I acknowledge the power of God through His Spirit to pray through me and have seen quite a good number of answer to prayer when praying in tongues, that do not line up with what I knew after my flesh, but what the Holy Spirit knew and addressed through me because of my willingness to be available to pray

and yeah, those who do not believe will not experience this but I question the constant desire to prove millions of people through the ages wrong and worse, calling them demonic as some have done

 

[notuptome]

we all have to stand before God one day, so if we lie here we will have to account for it

those who say others lie when they are in fact speaking by the Holy Spirit and testifying of truthful events also will have to give an account why they opposed the work of the Holy Spirit

that is what it all actually boils down to

I am not given to superfluous displays of emotion but I acknowledge the power of God through His Spirit to pray through me and have seen quite a good number of answer to prayer when praying in tongues, that do not line up with what I knew after my flesh, but what the Holy Spirit knew and addressed through me because of my willingness to be available to pray

and yeah, those who do not believe will not experience this but I question the constant desire to prove millions of people through the ages wrong and worse, calling them demonic as some have done

Truth is that there are just as many if not more who pray the fervent effectual prayer of the righteous and witness God answering those prayers for His glory. Many times they are not broadcast but none the less they are bringing great blessing to the work of the church.

Biblical truth is biblical truth. It cannot be changed it can be ignored only at the peril of the believer.

Your negative reaction to a passage of scripture is interesting.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

This is where the evidence is, if you can't pick up serpents, what makes you think you are on the right track with tongues?

lol

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Truth is that there are just as many if not more who pray the fervent effectual prayer of the righteous and witness God answering those prayers for His glory. Many times they are not broadcast but none the less they are bringing great blessing to the work of the church.

Biblical truth is biblical truth. It cannot be changed it can be ignored only at the peril of the believer.

Your negative reaction to a passage of scripture is interesting.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

so a person praying in tongues is not fervent and the prayer is not effectual?

you can't apply scriptures to yourself and delete everyone else with whom you disagree

God is not the respecter of persons you appear to be

Biblical truth is biblical truth. It cannot be changed it can be ignored only at the peril of the believer.

Your negative reaction to scripture concerning what you have not personally experienced is bias of a very personal nature

those of us who HAVE experienced have a witness and a testimony you do not share.

without prejudice

 

[notuptome]

so a person praying in tongues is not fervent and the prayer is not effectual?

you can't apply scriptures to yourself and delete everyone else with whom you disagree

God is not the respecter of persons you appear to be

Biblical truth is biblical truth. It cannot be changed it can be ignored only at the peril of the believer.

Your negative reaction to scripture concerning what you have not personally experienced is bias of a very personal nature

those of us who HAVE experienced have a witness and a testimony you do not share.

without prejudice

We have no biblical teaching to pray in tongues. When the apostles asked Jesus to teach them to pray Jesus did not teach them to pray with tongues.

Paul says if he prays in a tongue his spirit prays and his understanding is unfruitful. Paul further says that if you utter words in a tongue that is not easy to be understood how are you to know what is spoken? It is speaking into the air. 1 Cor 14:13.

I do not deny that there are many testimonies of these experiences I only inquire as to how they align with scripture. I still await one person to demonstrate that what they experienced aligns with scripture. Not just a single verse which as we all know is easily taken out of context but a testimony that fits with all of the corrections Paul gives in 1 Cor: 12-14.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Not like the same is said of the Pentecostal side of the debate. Pick and choose which you will believe and disregard the ones you do not wish to believe.

51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 ¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

so a person praying in tongues is not fervent and the prayer is not effectual?

you can't apply scriptures to yourself and delete everyone else with whom you disagree

God is not the respecter of persons you appear to be

Biblical truth is biblical truth. It cannot be changed it can be ignored only at the peril of the believer.

Your negative reaction to scripture concerning what you have not personally experienced is bias of a very personal nature

those of us who HAVE experienced have a witness and a testimony you do not share.

without prejudice

Don'y worry about that 7seasrekeyed remember they like to speak for the whole world . They know every one. it's like they are little gods who ahe this all knowning ability boiut everyone who call themselves pentacostels and says they have the gift of tongues . it is very funny and prideful for them to be that way

 

[notuptome]

Don'y worry about that 7seasrekeyed remember they like to speak for the whole world . They know every one. it's like they are little gods who ahe this all knowning ability boiut everyone who call themselves pentacostels and says they have the gift of tongues . it is very funny and prideful for them to be that way

Just giving you bible verses. If that is arrogant then so be it. You are not required to receive it from me I am only required to give it to you.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

We have no biblical teaching to pray in tongues. When the apostles asked Jesus to teach them to pray Jesus did not teach them to pray with tongues.

Paul says if he prays in a tongue his spirit prays and his understanding is unfruitful. Paul further says that if you utter words in a tongue that is not easy to be understood how are you to know what is spoken? It is speaking into the air. 1 Cor 14:13.

I do not deny that there are many testimonies of these experiences I only inquire as to how they align with scripture. I still await one person to demonstrate that what they experienced aligns with scripture. Not just a single verse which as we all know is easily taken out of context but a testimony that fits with all of the corrections Paul gives in 1 Cor: 12-14.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

right. is that the only prayer you ever prayed? duh of course not

let me remind you about the book of Acts Roger. that is where the promised (by Jesus) Holy Spirit fell upon those gathered in the upper room and they spoke in tongues as the Spirit (of God) gave them utterance...or in the vernacular, the ability to do so

same for myself and millions of others. Praise God!

anyway, since your personal understanding of scriptures that apply to the topic at hand DIFFER even from those who are cessationists, we will not be using that understanding in either application and certainly not as critical evidence ( and of course myself and others are very familiar with your understanding since you are always to be counted among the dissenters)

yes, you certainly do know how to contextually mess up understanding...especially your own seeing as how you ignore the fact that NO ONE is recorded as 'speaking in tongues' BEFORE the day of Pentecost

hopefully, you will now reconsider your desire to prove us wrong because Jesus did not teach the disciples to pray in tongues...not withstanding Jesus said that He had to go back to the Father in order that the Father would send the Holy Spirit to us

hope you can follow that

 

[CS1]

We have no biblical teaching to pray in tongues. When the apostles asked Jesus to teach them to pray Jesus did not teach them to pray with tongues.

Paul says if he prays in a tongue his spirit prays and his understanding is unfruitful. Paul further says that if you utter words in a tongue that is not easy to be understood how are you to know what is spoken? It is speaking into the air. 1 Cor 14:13.

I do not deny that there are many testimonies of these experiences I only inquire as to how they align with scripture. I still await one person to demonstrate that what they experienced aligns with scripture. Not just a single verse which as we all know is easily taken out of context but a testimony that fits with all of the corrections Paul gives in 1 Cor: 12-14.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again that is a so wrong to ask one to demonstrate a gift of the Holy Spirit. Who do you think you are? and 1cor 12, 13 and 14 have been given in context . You are the one who cannot prove scripturally your assertion 1cor 13:10 has to do with the Bible canonization and therefore the gifts of tongues and prophecy have done away with . SO those in glass houses should not throw stones.

and practice what you preach.


You have not proven your ONE verse assertion of 1cor 13:10. LOL and you were called on it then shy away from it. And think you can

say such things ? how arrogant , I will ask you this question , have you ever been wrong in your understanding in anything concerning the Word of God?

 

[CS1]

Just giving you bible verses. If that is arrogant then so be it. You are not required to receive it from me I am only required to give it to you.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

that is out of the mouth of God not you LOL hahaha you are no prophet sir,

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Just giving you bible verses. If that is arrogant then so be it. You are not required to receive it from me I am only required to give it to you.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I do not believe your unction to reply with scripture that is not only out of context, but historically incorrect, comes from God

God is not in error with His own word

why now go to the OT? it's not the refuge you think it is

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I think this would be a good time to remember why the Holy Spirit was sent, by God, AFTER Jesus ascended

THE PURPOSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
1) He convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and of judgment.
John 16:8-11 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."

2) He transforms us in the sight of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

3) He helps us to remember the word of God.
John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."

4) He helps us to lead a godly life.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit (evidence) of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

5) He gives us spiritual gifts for the edification of believers.
1 Corinthians 12:4-7 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

6) He is our guarantee of eternal life with God.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

7) He empowers us to be witnesses for our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."
Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Acts 4:33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

source...even though the above is all scripture

frankly, I do not even know whether or not this site represents a cessationist position or not...however, the word speaks for itself and these verses were conveniently all in the same place

we keep hearing about how the Holy Spirit is not for this and not for that and does do this but does not do that

so, you know...what does the Bible say? (and this is not complete although a good start)

 

[notuptome]

right. is that the only prayer you ever prayed? duh of course not

let me remind you about the book of Acts Roger. that is where the promised (by Jesus) Holy Spirit fell upon those gathered in the upper room and they spoke in tongues as the Spirit (of God) gave them utterance...or in the vernacular, the ability to do so

same for myself and millions of others. Praise God!

anyway, since your personal understanding of scriptures that apply to the topic at hand DIFFER even from those who are cessationists, we will not be using that understanding in either application and certainly not as critical evidence ( and of course myself and others are very familiar with your understanding since you are always to be counted among the dissenters)

yes, you certainly do know how to contextually mess up understanding...especially your own seeing as how you ignore the fact that NO ONE is recorded as 'speaking in tongues' BEFORE the day of Pentecost

hopefully, you will now reconsider your desire to prove us wrong because Jesus did not teach the disciples to pray in tongues...not withstanding Jesus said that He had to go back to the Father in order that the Father would send the Holy Spirit to us

hope you can follow that

Will you have me to believe that you speak in tongues and everyone present hears in their native language the words you speak like in Acts 2?

Paul set forth teaching on tongues in 1 Cor. Paul said that praying in an unknown tongue is not fruitful.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

that is out of the mouth of God not you LOL hahaha you are no prophet sir,

I am quoting one of the great OT prophets. I never claimed to be a prophet.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Again that is a so wrong to ask one to demonstrate a gift of the Holy Spirit. Who do you think you are? and 1cor 12, 13 and 14 have been given in context . You are the one who cannot prove scripturally your assertion 1cor 13:10 has to do with the Bible canonization and therefore the gifts of tongues and prophecy have done away with . SO those in glass houses should not throw stones.

and practice what you preach.


You have not proven your ONE verse assertion of 1cor 13:10. LOL and you were called on it then shy away from it. And think you can

say such things ? how arrogant , I will ask you this question , have you ever been wrong in your understanding in anything concerning the Word of God?

The Holy Spirit continues to guide in my study of the word of God. Do I know more today than yesterday? I hope so as I am instructed to grow in the nurture of the Lord.

You can pick and choose how you want to see 1 Cor 13:8.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I think this would be a good time to remember why the Holy Spirit was sent, by God, AFTER Jesus ascended

THE PURPOSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
1) He convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and of judgment.
John 16:8-11 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."

2) He transforms us in the sight of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

3) He helps us to remember the word of God.
John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."

4) He helps us to lead a godly life.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit (evidence) of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

5) He gives us spiritual gifts for the edification of believers.
1 Corinthians 12:4-7 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

6) He is our guarantee of eternal life with God.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

7) He empowers us to be witnesses for our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."
Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Acts 4:33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

source...even though the above is all scripture

frankly, I do not even know whether or not this site represents a cessationist position or not...however, the word speaks for itself and these verses were conveniently all in the same place

we keep hearing about how the Holy Spirit is not for this and not for that and does do this but does not do that

so, you know...what does the Bible say? (and this is not complete although a good start)

There is nothing to find fault with in this post. I do not see how this supports the position you take on tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger