Speaking in tongues

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GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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Dispensational-ism is a product of Darby and Scofield.
Then passed on by Chafer, a disciple of Scofield.
Chafer, as head of the Dallas Theological Seminary, then passed on "dispensationalism"

And other heresies like Premillenianism
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
5,636
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The Permanent Spiritual Gifts to the church

1. Teaching
2. Helps (Ministering)
3. Administration
4. Evangelism
5. hospitality
6. Exhortation

Temporary sign gifts to the Jews

1. miracles
2. healing
3. tongues
4. word of knowedge
5. prophecy
6. interpreting
Where does the Bible teach that all these gifts were 'temporary sign gifts to the Jews'? Where does the Bible say that miracles or healing, as gifts, would ever cease? Please show us chapter and verse.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Where does the Bible teach that all these gifts were 'temporary sign gifts to the Jews'? Where does the Bible say that miracles or healing, as gifts, would ever cease? Please show us chapter and verse.
The Bible does not teach the idea of sign gifts. Jesus said it is a evil generation that seeks after a signs and wonders gospel We walk by faith the unseen eternal not the by sight the temporal.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Can you show me where the Bible divides gifts up into 'sign gifts' and 'nonsign gifts'? If you can't, what is your justification for doing so? Do you think gifts of healing and the working of miracles was only for the past? If so, what is your Biblical justification for this belief?

It does not divide between sign gifts and non sign gifts . God heals indiscriminately every day as a miracle. He send rain on the justified as well as those not justified. The goal of faith is a new incorruptible bodies, these bodies of death will die to confirm they were under the wrath of God .
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
5,636
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The Bible does not teach the idea of sign gifts. Jesus said it is a evil generation that seeks after a signs and wonders gospel We walk by faith the unseen eternal not the by sight the temporal.
Jesus and the apostles did signs and wonders while preaching the gospel. Paul, with signs and wonders, fully preached the Gospel of Christ. Your terminology does not fit well with that used in the New Testament. Before the poster who uses the handle GraceandTruth, you were the poster here who used 'sign gifts.' She is the one advocating for categorizing gifts that way.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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The laying on hands did not heal him .God is not served by human hands. The laying on of hands is simply a plea for God's mercy. The laying on of the will determines if God desired do the work .He is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases .He performs that which he appoints to us. It is God who does make our hearts soft
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,746
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Jesus and the apostles did signs and wonders while preaching the gospel. Paul, with signs and wonders, fully preached the Gospel of Christ. Your terminology does not fit well with that used in the New Testament. Before the poster who uses the handle GraceandTruth, you were the poster here who used 'sign gifts.' She is the one advocating for categorizing gifts that way.

Really they did or Christ did? Does any credit go to the Apostles ?

I never put my approval on the idea of sign gifts. Its an evil generation that seeks after a signs and wonder gospel . Graceandtruth and I have our differences.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
3,317
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Jesus and the apostles did signs and wonders while preaching the gospel. Paul, with signs and wonders, fully preached the Gospel of Christ. Your terminology does not fit well with that used in the New Testament. Before the poster who uses the handle GraceandTruth, you were the poster here who used 'sign gifts.' She is the one advocating for categorizing gifts that way.
My terminology doesn't fit something or other? You lost me on that sorry.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
5,636
669
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Really they did or Christ did? Does any credit go to the Apostles ?

I never put my approval on the idea of sign gifts. Its an evil generation that seeks after a signs and wonder gospel .
Paul wrote in Romans that that with signs and wonders from Jerusalem round aboit unto Illyricum he had fully preached the dispel if Chirist. I often use terminology right out of the Bible. If it is put of the Bible I do not believe it unduly exalts the apostles.

The Bible does not say an evil generation seeks a gospel.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
5,636
669
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It does not divide between sign gifts and non sign gifts . God heals indiscriminately every day as a miracle. He send rain on the justified as well as those not justified. The goal of faith is a new incorruptible bodies, these bodies of death will die to confirm they were under the wrath of God .
Do you think your body is under God's wrath?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Does Scripture call tongues a gift and a sign?
Yes it calls prophecy or God's word (tongues) as gift. And to whom the sign confirms a curse. This is the sign of God with stammering lips mocking the Jews who refused to hear prophecy even in the Hebrew tongue. But rather they held to the oral traditions of men making the tradition of God prophecy without effect.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem Isaiah 28:11-14

Once the foundational law is properly understood (1 Corinthian 14:21-22) the rest of the doctrine falls into its place.

What do you think the sign confirms and who it is against if not those who believe not the word of God??
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Do you think your body is under God's wrath?
The first death represents a body of death underthe wrath of God that all men experience . But Our God has given us a new incorruptible spirit that could never die .When it is raised we will receive the goal of our faith our new incorruptible bodies. It will be sign that we have believed prophecy, God's word.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,746
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Paul wrote in Romans that that with signs and wonders from Jerusalem round aboit unto Illyricum he had fully preached the dispel if Chirist. I often use terminology right out of the Bible. If it is put of the Bible I do not believe it unduly exalts the apostles.



The Bible does not say an evil generation seeks a gospel.
I would question "unduly exalts". But rather "no exaltation" or venerating which is a form of worship.

What did they have that they did not freely receive, and if freely received why would they boast if they did not receive it freely?

I offered, It is an evil generation of those who have no faith that seek after a "signs and wonders" gospel as natural unconverted man . (no faith) And not the gospel as it is written in the law and the prophets. But another gospel and therefore another kind of Christ or mediator.

It is God who worked in the apostles to both will and do his good pleasure. We no more attribute the work of their hands to the apostles anymore than we would accredit the words coming from the mouth of Balaam's Ass... to the Ass .as the work that did actively work to restrain the madness of that false apostles. God is simply not served by human hands.

A good example of a evil generation that seeks after a signs and wonders gospel is given in in Acts 14 as a warning

And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The "gods are come down to us in the likeness of men".And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, "because he was the chief speaker".Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:Acts14:7:15

I think we can have a better understanding as we are informed in Hebrew 4

Hebrews 4:1-2 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the "gospel preached", as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, "not being mixed with faith" in them that heard it.

They in Acts 14 heard the gospel but did not mix what they heard with faith But again rather when they saw what Paul had done they made Paul and Barnabas into gods in the likeness of men. Therefore revealing they were not walking by faith. But rather seeking after sign and wonder gospel which Christ called an evil generation

You could say the foundation of Catholicism having over 3,500 patron saints as workers with familiar spirits ready to assist those who refuse to mix faith in what they do hear. In the end created a foundation of necromancy , seeking after the dead for those still alive. (Isaiah 8:20)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,121
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Yes it calls prophecy or God's word (tongues) as gift....
You're becoming well practiced at dodging the question.

I'll ask it yet again. Don't restructure it, don't redefine it, and don't dodge it. Just answer it: yes or no.

Does Scripture call tongues a gift and a sign?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
3,317
1,353
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Can someone explain to me the uniqueness of this gift of speaking in tongues which most congregations in my neighbourhood insist on acquiring? Is it in any way superior to or more edifying than other gifts?
most congregations in my neighbourhood insist on acquiring?

I think that you have defined the problem, unwittingly or not. Myself, I would exit such a group and move on.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,746
1,380
113
You're becoming well practiced at dodging the question.

I'll ask it yet again. Don't restructure it, don't redefine it, and don't dodge it. Just answer it: yes or no.

Does Scripture call tongues a gift and a sign?
The conversation is all about confirming something as a sign.

Nothing has changed...….. yes, he calls tongues, prophecy a gift .And no not a sign that speaks of rebellion of those who refuse to hear the gift..

The sign confirms those who believe not prophecy. Just look to the law in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and then give me your answer to what it confirms and who it is against?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for "a sign", not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthian 14:21-22
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
3,317
1,353
113
Dispensational-ism is a product of Darby and Scofield.
Then passed on by Chafer, a disciple of Scofield.
Chafer, as head of the Dallas Theological Seminary, then passed on "dispensationalism"

And other heresies like Premillenianism
Nonsense. Dispensationalism is simply a description of an existing phenomenon, albeit a somewhat faulty or limited one, not a heresy. There is no doubt that the Lord God has visited and gifted men by greater and lesser manifestations and degrees. The Exodus is not equitable to for example Paul casting out demons.