Speaking in tongues
- Thread starter blessedafrican
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
All of this makes absolutely no sense in light of the fact that "speaking in tongues" is a gift of the Holy Spirit. It therefore cannot be simply speech in one's native tongue that happens to be unfamiliar to those within earshot.
Paul's words regarding praying with the spirit and with the mind make perfect sense if the "language of the spirit" is unknown to the speaker. He is praying, but his mind is unfruitful... not active, not engaged in the process. Therefore he prays with his spirit (the clear context is "in tongues") and he prays with his understanding... two different actions. Jude 20 also makes sense in this context... as the one who prays in a tongue edifies himself (1 Cor 14:2), so we are to edify ourselves, praying in the Spirit. Praying in one's natural language is not described anywhere as "praying in the s/Spirit". It's just "praying".
Paul's words regarding praying with the spirit and with the mind make perfect sense if the "language of the spirit" is unknown to the speaker. He is praying, but his mind is unfruitful... not active, not engaged in the process. Therefore he prays with his spirit (the clear context is "in tongues") and he prays with his understanding... two different actions. Jude 20 also makes sense in this context... as the one who prays in a tongue edifies himself (1 Cor 14:2), so we are to edify ourselves, praying in the Spirit. Praying in one's natural language is not described anywhere as "praying in the s/Spirit". It's just "praying".
-
1
- Show all
Not sure if this is going to come out quite the way I mean it to, but….Yes, it may be a gift; however, said gift is just being referenced in Corinthians. It’s not actually being demonstrated in the narrative any more than ‘healing’, ‘wisdom’, or any of the others are. That is, the language speaking referenced in Corinthians is not demonstrating the actual gift. Why would only one gift (and the least of them to boot) be demonstrated? And, even if one gift were demonstrated in the narrative, why not one of the more prominent ones like healing, prophecy, wisdom??
Re read it.
Your conclusion is an utter impossibility.
" he that speaks in an unknown tonges speaks not to men,but to God"
1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Your deal is totally off and boggus.
We can easily see that in ch 14 is NOT known or understandable.
Nor is it to men,and ,in fact,it is a mystery.
Your conclusion is an utter impossibility.
" he that speaks in an unknown tonges speaks not to men,but to God"
1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Your deal is totally off and boggus.
We can easily see that in ch 14 is NOT known or understandable.
Nor is it to men,and ,in fact,it is a mystery.
-
1
- Show all
You mentioned you wish you possessed the gifts. Pray.
The Apostle Paul expressed one should pray for spiritual gifts to the edifying of the church body.
1 Cor 14:12-13
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Paul tells us to desire spiritual gifts and the ultimate; to prophesy:
1 Cor 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
The Apostle Paul expressed one should pray for spiritual gifts to the edifying of the church body.
1 Cor 14:12-13
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Paul tells us to desire spiritual gifts and the ultimate; to prophesy:
1 Cor 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
-
1
- Show all
As 1 Corinthians is a letter, and not a "history" (such as Acts), there is little in the way of "narrative" in it. I didn't claim that Paul demonstrated speaking in tongues; rather, I claimed that he contrasted "praying with the spirit" with "praying with the mind". The context of that statement is a section primarily discussing "speaking in tongues". The clear implication is that "praying with the spirit" is praying in the same "tongues" language.
So, I don't see your point at all.
So, I don't see your point at all.
@ Absolutely -
No, it’s only an impossibility if modern tongues is read into the text.
Let’s put the passage into a more modern English, and give it a more literal translation from the Greek:
“One who speaks in a language speaks not to men, but to God; for no one hears (with understanding); in the Spirit however, he utters mysteries.”
“One who speaks in a language speaks not to men, but to God” – Yes, if no one listening to me speaks my language, I am, in effect, speaking (praying) only to God.
“For no one hears (with understanding)” Again, correct – if no one speaks my language, no one will understand what I’m saying; they will not hear me with understanding. The Greek uses ‘hear’ in this passage; the parenthetical “with understanding” is inferred.
“In the Spirit however, he utters mysteries” – Again, “praying in the Spirit” is defined as I have it in previous posts (it’s not the words being said, rather how one is praying; i.e. by the power and leading of Spirit and according to his will). So though the speaker is praying in the Spirit, he is still uttering ‘mysteries’ because no one understands his language and no one can derive any benefit from what he’s saying.
There isn’t anything in this passage that suggests modern tongues-speech; it’s just not there. It is read into the text by Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians, particularly concentrating on the idea that the speaker has no clue what he himself is saying. There’s nothing there that even remotely would suggest this. In order for modern tongues to be ‘proofed’ in the passage, i.e. in order for “tongues” to work here however, it has to and can only be understood as the speaker also has no clue what he’s saying.
The idea of real, rational language here is further supported by the very demographic make-up of Corinth itself – to suggest it’s anything else simply does not hold.
I don’t really see 1 Cor. 14:15 as a contrast. That said, I can see where tongues-speakers would due to their definition of ‘praying in the Spirit’.
1 Cor. 14:15 ties into vs. 13 and 14 and concludes with v.15.
To sort of quickly paraphrase - if you’re going to pray at a public meeting in a language no one is familiar with, make sure you secure an interpreter so that all may benefit. If you pray in your own language (one that you understand but those listening to you do not), your understanding of it will be unfruitful for others; thus, certainly pray or sing praises in the Spirit, but with understanding (for others) (there’s no “my” in these sentences), otherwise you’re giving thanks enough (to God), but no one else is benefiting from your efforts well enough so that they can join in with an “Amen”.
This whole section deals with real rational language, specifically in an environment such as Corinth where, due to the demographic make-up, everyday communication can be a challenge; let alone the complications and nuances of prayer.
No, it’s only an impossibility if modern tongues is read into the text.
Let’s put the passage into a more modern English, and give it a more literal translation from the Greek:
“One who speaks in a language speaks not to men, but to God; for no one hears (with understanding); in the Spirit however, he utters mysteries.”
“One who speaks in a language speaks not to men, but to God” – Yes, if no one listening to me speaks my language, I am, in effect, speaking (praying) only to God.
“For no one hears (with understanding)” Again, correct – if no one speaks my language, no one will understand what I’m saying; they will not hear me with understanding. The Greek uses ‘hear’ in this passage; the parenthetical “with understanding” is inferred.
“In the Spirit however, he utters mysteries” – Again, “praying in the Spirit” is defined as I have it in previous posts (it’s not the words being said, rather how one is praying; i.e. by the power and leading of Spirit and according to his will). So though the speaker is praying in the Spirit, he is still uttering ‘mysteries’ because no one understands his language and no one can derive any benefit from what he’s saying.
There isn’t anything in this passage that suggests modern tongues-speech; it’s just not there. It is read into the text by Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians, particularly concentrating on the idea that the speaker has no clue what he himself is saying. There’s nothing there that even remotely would suggest this. In order for modern tongues to be ‘proofed’ in the passage, i.e. in order for “tongues” to work here however, it has to and can only be understood as the speaker also has no clue what he’s saying.
The idea of real, rational language here is further supported by the very demographic make-up of Corinth itself – to suggest it’s anything else simply does not hold.
I don’t really see 1 Cor. 14:15 as a contrast. That said, I can see where tongues-speakers would due to their definition of ‘praying in the Spirit’.
1 Cor. 14:15 ties into vs. 13 and 14 and concludes with v.15.
To sort of quickly paraphrase - if you’re going to pray at a public meeting in a language no one is familiar with, make sure you secure an interpreter so that all may benefit. If you pray in your own language (one that you understand but those listening to you do not), your understanding of it will be unfruitful for others; thus, certainly pray or sing praises in the Spirit, but with understanding (for others) (there’s no “my” in these sentences), otherwise you’re giving thanks enough (to God), but no one else is benefiting from your efforts well enough so that they can join in with an “Amen”.
This whole section deals with real rational language, specifically in an environment such as Corinth where, due to the demographic make-up, everyday communication can be a challenge; let alone the complications and nuances of prayer.