Speaking in tongues

[Noose]

You don't understand what speaking in tongues is, Noose.

I would try explaining it again, but it would fall on deaf ears.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Speaking in tongues is a miracle/ a sign- up there with the likes of raising the dead and healing the sick. If what you speak is not a miracle then you have no case, surely.

 

[Noose]

That is why Paul goes on to say, there needs to be an interpreter present. He is very strong on everything being done in order.

Let all things be done decently and in order. (1Co 14:40 KJV)

Yes, that's right. That doesn't mean that tongues are just words from no where, it is an actual language.

I might be given the ability to speak Hindu, but if i speak Hindu to a congregation that is Spanish, with no Spanish witnesses who can interpret Hindu, then i need to pray for interpretation from God- Paul clearly says if there's no interpreter, then the person speaking need to PRAY for an interpretation.

 

[PS]

My understanding of tongues is very different from what is happening today. A tongue is a language; one of the different languages spoken on earth and that's why as per the verse you quoted, it must have witnesses (people who understand that language). And a tongue is also a miracle because the one who speaks has no formal education in it yet with the spirit of God, they can speak fluently.

And it is a miracle on two fronts, to the listener (which is a sign to them that God works) and to the speaker because it is like they are speaking their own language/ speaking things that they fully understand (as given to them by God- like preaching the gospel), yet the listener gets it is a different language (their own).

In Mark 16, speaking in tongues is right there with other miracles :

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

When i say speaking in tongues ceased just like the miracle of raising the dead ceased, i know what i'm talking about. What we hear today is hardly a miracle- it is the opposite of a miracle.

I find myself understanding what you are saying. I am sure in my own mind, that those speaking in tongues are speaking in a heavenly language one-to-one with God and the interpretation is God's message to the church, or maybe even a message to an individual who may be going through a bad time. Often people have said to me that the message was for them, and they were so blessed and helped.

Another point you make sounds to me like the Toronto blessing and sad to say, I share the same feelings about it as you do.

 

[PS]

Yes, that's right. That doesn't mean that tongues are just words from no where, it is an actual language.

I might be given the ability to speak Hindu, but if i speak Hindu to a congregation that is Spanish, with no Spanish witnesses who can interpret Hindu, then i need to pray for interpretation from God- Paul clearly says if there's no interpreter, then the person speaking need to PRAY for an interpretation.

Correct, except for the last sentence and off the top of my head there needs to be an interpreter present. If not Paul says it is best to speak five words that are understood by all.

 

[CS1]

1 Cor 14: 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.

How can a person speak intelligible tongue?

you cannot take one part of the chapter and build a case I see you did not read verse one

1.Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2." For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


Verse 5 is the opening statement to 6-10 very important over look.

6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? NOW read back at verse 5 where it says " except he interpret

This is by the knowledge, or prophesying it is talking about . You missed that.
IF you do not have "an Interpretation os speak by the knowledge which cannmot be done without interpreation . If it is not tongues and interpret then it has to be Prophesying or Doctrine . that is what 6 says .

NOW if this is not done

verse 7 gives examples :

"And even things without life giving sound, (meaning) whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?"

without an intrepretation how will they know what is being said ? back to verse 5 "
except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

verse 8. "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

Verse 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
Back to the instruction in verse 5 " except he interpret"


verse 10 Verse 10 hyas changed the context some what and has move to

10."There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

I thought he was saying to speak so they can understand ? some see this as a spesaking against tongues publicaly but.

then why tell them "
10."There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

that is because the chapter is not against it unless there is no intrepretation without :

11: " Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. this is why we need interpreation.

12 12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
and on and on it goes.

 

[DJ2]

oh it is not a threat sir, you have been very rude and you need to go . you are a legend in your own time. You should show more kindness and respect . As it was shown to you. you insult and speak condemnation to me which is ok but you do so to other and as a mod I was respectful to you . Your own actions speak here. and now you and I are done.

thank you and God bless.

oh it is not a threat sir, you have been very rude and you need to go . you are a legend in your own time. You should show more kindness and respect . As it was shown to you. you insult and speak condemnation to me which is ok but you do so to other and as a mod I was respectful to you . Your own actions speak here. and now you and I are done.

thank you and God bless.

I have shown you much more respect then you have shown me or others. You are simply abusing your position.

 

[CS1]

I have shown you much more respect then you have shown me or others. You are simply abusing your position.

I told you we are done thank you

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If you don't understand what you are saying then why are saying them? no one can be edified by what they don't know.
The summary of 1 Cor 12/13/14 is that if you can't speak intelligible words, shut up.

I am speaking secrets with my heavenly Father (1 Cor. 14:2) and my spirit - the new creation - is edified. (1 Cor. 14:4).

 

[Noose]

I find myself understanding what you are saying. I am sure in my own mind, that those speaking in tongues are speaking in a heavenly language one-to-one with God and the interpretation is God's message to the church, or maybe even a message to an individual who may be going through a bad time. Often people have said to me that the message was for them, and they were so blessed and helped.

Another point you make sounds to me like the Toronto blessing and sad to say, I share the same feelings about it as you do.

One to one with God is a private affair and things that happen in private can not be up for debate. I mean, if it were this way, then threads like this wouldn't be there. I'm strictly speaking of tongues that are spoken today in most churches- some have been confirmed to be fake (based on the bad fruits of the speakers) And even myself speaking from experience- i used to 'speak in tongues' for a while, i didn't understand and my listeners didn't understand and to me, everything was right with God.

I was not being edified in any way and no one was being edified yet i thought that's the way to go. The this happened:

Isa 30: 20 Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. 21Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”22Then you will desecrate your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Away with you!”

 

[PS]

Yes, that's right. That doesn't mean that tongues are just words from no where, it is an actual language.
I might be given the ability to speak Hindu, but if i speak Hindu to a congregation that is Spanish, with no Spanish witnesses who can interpret Hindu, then i need to pray for interpretation from God- Paul clearly says if there's no interpreter, then the person speaking need to PRAY for an interpretation.[/QUOTE]
Red. I would need to see a scripture on that before I could comment.
I'm going to bed shortly, so if I do not respond tonight, then I will tomorrow.

 

[Noose]

I am speaking secrets with my heavenly Father (1 Cor. 14:2) and my spirit - the new creation - is edified. (1 Cor. 14:4).

I private gift?!!

1 Cor 12:
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.13For we were all baptized byc one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

 

[CS1]

1 Cor 14: 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.

you cannot take one part of the chapter and build a case I see you did not read verse one

1.Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2." For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


Verse 5 is the opening statement to 6-10 very important over look.

6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? NOW read back at verse 5 where it says " except he interpret

This is by the knowledge, or prophesying it is talking about . You missed that.
IF you do not have "an Interpretation or speak by the knowledge which cannot be done without interpretation. If it is not tongues and interpret then it has to be Prophesying or Doctrine. That is what 6 says.

NOW if this is not done

verse 7 gives examples :

"And even things without life giving sound, (meaning) whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?"

without an interpretation how will they know what is being said ? back to verse 5 "
except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

verse 8. "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

Verse 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
Back to the instruction in verse 5 " except he interpret"


verse 10 Verse 10 has changed the context some what and has move to

10."There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

I thought he was saying to speak so they can understand ? some see this as a speaking against tongues publicly but.

then why tell them "
10."There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

that is because the chapter is not against it unless there is no interpretation without :

11: " Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. this is why we need interpretation.

12 12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
and on and on it goes.

it Don't mean a thing if you an't got the King

 

[PS]

One to one with God is a private affair and things that happen in private can not be up for debate. I mean, if it were this way, then threads like this wouldn't be there. I'm strictly speaking of tongues that are spoken today in most churches- some have been confirmed to be fake (based on the bad fruits of the speakers) And even myself speaking from experience- i used to 'speak in tongues' for a while, i didn't understand and my listeners didn't understand and to me, everything was right with God.

I was not being edified in any way and no one was being edified yet i thought that's the way to go. The this happened:

Isa 30: 20 Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. 21Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”22Then you will desecrate your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Away with you!”

In your quiet time, you are praising God. It is one-to-one and no interpretation is needed. It is simply between you and God.
However in the church, tongues is God's message to the people and it is wonderful that God can speak to us in this way through his servants.

 

[CS1]

I private gift?!!

1 Cor 12:
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.13For we were all baptized byc one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

a gift used in private does not mean it is or belong to aperson only. Just as it states if one is speaking and there is no intrepeter they are to tell the person tbe quiet and speak to themselves..

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I private gift?!!

1 Cor 12:
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.13For we were all baptized byc one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

Where did I say anything about anything being private?

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man (each one) for the common good. 1 Cor. 12:7

 

[notuptome]

I have shown you much more respect then you have shown me or others. You are simply abusing your position.

I told you we are done thank you

Perhaps you should step back and allow things to cool off a little? Believers can disagree but they must honor the Lord in their disagreement.

Feeling sometimes get hurt and tempers flare. We are to be zealous for the truth of Gods word but we cannot use worldly means to impress our zeal on one another.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

anyone who is desiring the gifts of the Holy Spirit just need to ask God to be used in them. the only thing you need is to be born-again. No other requirement . Where is says
1cor 12:31

"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. "

the best gifts the word Best means Most effective What Paul is saying is desire the gifts that are need at the time to do what The Holy Spirit is having you do. The best give to use is the one that is need to edify, comfort, build up , heal, encourage , add faith. It is not that tongues the best or the least it following the Leading of the Holy Spirit and yielding to Gods will.

 

[Noose]

you cannot take one part of the chapter and build a case I see you did not read verse one

1.Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2." For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


Verse 5 is the opening statement to 6-10 very important over look.

6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? NOW read back at verse 5 where it says " except he interpret

This is by the knowledge, or prophesying it is talking about . You missed that.
IF you do not have "an Interpretation os speak by the knowledge which cannmot be done without interpreation . If it is not tongues and interpret then it has to be Prophesying or Doctrine . that is what 6 says .

NOW if this is not done

verse 7 gives examples :

"And even things without life giving sound, (meaning) whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?"

without an intrepretation how will they know what is being said ? back to verse 5 "
except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

verse 8. "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

Verse 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
Back to the instruction in verse 5 " except he interpret"


verse 10 Verse 10 hyas changed the context some what and has move to

10."There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

I thought he was saying to speak so they can understand ? some see this as a spesaking against tongues publicaly but.

then why tell them "
10."There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

that is because the chapter is not against it unless there is no intrepretation without :

11: " Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. this is why we need interpreation.

12 12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
and on and on it goes.

My question is verse 9, how does someone utter by tongues, words easy to be understood?

What you are trying to say is that they utter difficult words to understand and then interpret, that's not what Paul says. Paul has insisted on speaking intelligible words, a work being done even by lifeless objects like piano and trumpets.

Verse 2 speaks of unknown tongue that edifies the speaker only- this doesn't mean that the speaker doesn't know what they are saying. The fact they are personally edified means that they know what they are saying and thus get edified because only them understand. And chapter 12 clearly says that gifts are not given for private purposes but to edify the church- so Paul was still against personal edification.

 

[notuptome]

anyone who is desiring the gifts of the Holy Spirit just need to ask God to be used in them. the only thing you need is to be born-again. No other requirement . Where is says
1cor 12:31

"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. "

the best gifts the word Best means Most effective What Paul is saying is desire the gifts that are need at the time to do what The Holy Spirit is having you do. The best give to use is the one that is need to edify, comfort, build up , heal, encourage , add faith. It is not that tongues the best or the least it following the Leading of the Holy Spirit and yielding to Gods will.

Why did no one ask for the gift in the book of Acts? Spontaneous tongues after baptism and no interpreter. Just men hearing in their own language what was said. Strange isn't it.

Not at all certain we have the correct perception of tongues. Acts and Corinthians must harmonize.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Perhaps you should step back and allow things to cool off a little? Believers can disagree but they must honor the Lord in their disagreement.

Feeling sometimes get hurt and tempers flare. We are to be zealous for the truth of Gods word but we cannot use worldly means to impress our zeal on one another.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

not even that

Perhaps you should step back and allow things to cool off a little? Believers can disagree but they must honor the Lord in their disagreement.

Feeling sometimes get hurt and tempers flare. We are to be zealous for the truth of Gods word but we cannot use worldly means to impress our zeal on one another.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

it's not even that

you see some forget what they say in the past on this thread b ut after sometime not respnding to a person they innerject themselves back into the conversation which is a good

it's like they can't help themselves they say
Its not that you won't prove your claims, its that you can't prove your claims and this is the testimony that condemns your claims as bogus. Do not hide behind the "no one has to prove anything to you" excuse. Jesus proved His claims with physical evidence when asked, now you do the same.

Testimony offered as proof of claims of on-going physcial events is both childish and disingenuous.

Label my words as insults if you wish but the truth is not on your side.
"