Speaking in Tongues

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I provided scripture that addresses those questions. And since you are unable to see what they convey I suggest you seek the answers directly from God through prayer. We know that He withholds nothing from those who approach Him with a humble heart.

A "humble heart" is the lecture of the day, yet you refuse to copy and paste your answers to the questions that I have been asking over, and over again. It is pathetic that you would give me this mini-lecture about humility. In fact, this is so hypocritical that it feels similar to the harassment of a small child.

You have a heart of stone, and it seems to be impenetrable. So, let's try this again (in the future) when you discover that God has given you a new Heart and a new Spirit so that you make sense. Until then, good luck.

 

[shittim]

the LORD Jesus never received the Holy Spirit from John the Baptist nor from any person on earth

really basic to spiritual maturity-
All four gospels report that, when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the visible form of a dove, (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32).

 

[Beckie]

this was a pretty good explanation.-
https://be-still.org/revelation-201-6-the-millennial-kingdom

The question was is 'millennial kingdom' a scriptural phrase. From the replies and searching it is not .

 

[shittim]

what would you call it? None of the scriptures were written in "American"

 

[Wansvic]

This is a clear case of looking for in scripture what you want it to say, not what it says. " . . . the multitude came together, and were confounded, because they were hearing each one speaking in his own language."

It doesn't say they were hearing them in their own language, but they heard them speaking their own language. This can't be an early form if interpretation because it's not an example of someone hearing and comprehending a language not their own.

There are other problems: 1) 1 Corinthians 14:39 says, "Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues." The gift of tongues is speaking in tongues; there is no hearing in tongues.; 2) The gift of interpretation is necessary precisely because there is no gift of hearing in tongues. The interpreter hears and understands but his gift isn't hearing in tongues, but interpreting; 3) If there were such a thing as hearing in tongues, every member of a congregation would have to have it; otherwise, only those with the gift could understand. This seems pretty unlikely in light of the fact that spiritual gifts are spread around. No one gift is given to everyone.

Are you really suggesting God can not cause individual's to hear something in their own language that is being spoken in another? Instances such as these are being reported all the time. Just because a person can not wrap their head around a Godly concept does not mean it isn't so. The Spirit of God leads people into all truth in ways He deems necessary. That is the purpose for all of the spiritual gifts He has given to the church.

 

[Beckie]

It is the immature that do not walk in His fullness and gifting.
Jesus did not receive multiple "gifting's", the gift of Holy Spirit He received from John the Baptist and imparted to the 12, they to the 70, and beyond to today is the one "gift" all the others spring from.

We sure take freedoms with the Word of God. You wrote Jesus received the Holy Spirit from John the Baptist . Did He? Or Did the Holy Spirit come from God? Really @Evmur you agree with the statement?

 

[shittim]

We sure take freedoms with the Word of God. You wrote Jesus received the Holy Spirit from John the Baptist . Did He? Or Did the Holy Spirit come from God? Really @Evmur you agree with the statement?

reread #282, it's from the Gospels.
https://carm.org/about-the-holy-spi...rit-descend-like-a-dove-during-jesus-baptism/

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Many things of God that I have seen and experienced have only happened once. It is as if God is showing me that I should never recklessly deny Spiritual things just because they do not occur everywhere or frequently. Never put God or His Spirit in a box. Let God be God.

Agreed.
In addition, the "List of 9" in 1 Cor 12 isn't INCLUSIVE at all. If you look at it, it's a collection of "Categories", and not necessarily Individual giftings -

I.e. "Gifts of healings" (plural in the original language) covers a VAST number if individual giftings related to Physical/Emotional/Spiritual healings, and "Miracles" covers any number of supernatural ocurrances.

"Tongues" has many variations and uses, and "Interpretation", "Prophesy", "Word of Knowledge", and "Word of Wisdom". Are all the same thing differing only in the CONTENT of the utterance.

 

[Wansvic]

Do you agree there is formal prayer and prayer that is unctioned? just as there is preaching which is just perfunctory and preaching which is ALIVE and anointed?

When preaching or praying is anointed it can be extempore and you wait upon the Lord to give you each sentence as you go along.

So it is with tongues and with interpretation. The anointing comes and your words come one line at a time, you step out in faith with the first line and the second line follows and so on.

Now you see ... some folks do not wait on the anointing but launch out on their own, this is always bad.

But then this is what goes on in all evangelical churches or a good many of them. Formal prayer and unanointed preaching.

Tongues and interpretation are just an example of extemporaneous prayer and prophesying.

I totally agree with you as it pertains to regular preaching and prayer in one's known language. However, having experienced both personal prayer through speaking in tongues, and the gift of speaking in tongues in a church setting I know the points you make are not applicable. There is no preparation whatsoever; the experiences are initiated spontaneously.

 

[Wansvic]

The real question is: What is this "anointing?" Paul wasn't as polished as some of those he referred to as "super-apostles"; but is there any doubt his preaching was anointed? Kenneth Copeland preaches extemporaneously. Are we to believe he's anointed? I've listened to many rock musicians say they become "possessed" onstage. I can hear it already: These are Satan's counterfeits. Well, that goes both ways. How do we know an "anointed" preacher is anointed by the Holy Spirit and not a stream of consciousness conjured from their own mind?

How about something that can't be produced by human effort: Fruit of the Spirit, sound Biblical exegesis, and the like.

True anointing comes from the Holy Ghost dwelling inside a person. Some can say they are anointed but the proof is in the pudding. Accepting Jesus' words in faith through actions taken in response to what He says, results in the Holy Ghost coming to dwell inside. It is faith in Jesus and His words that confirm a person doesn't have to fear receiving anything other than the Holy Ghost in response to their asking:

"For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:10-13

 

[DavidTree]

really basic to spiritual maturity-
All four gospels report that, when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the visible form of a dove, (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32).

AGREE - Really basic TRUTH that anyone can SEE when walking in spiritual maturity.

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water;
and behold, the heavens were opened to Him,
and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." - Matt 3:16-17

Basic Truth:
a.) Jesus was dunked in water = water baptised
b.) Jesus came up out of the water
c.) the Heavens Opened to JESUS
d.) the Holy Spirit descended from HEAVEN = never came from John
d.) the Father spoke from Heaven
e.) and said "this is My Beloved Son"

Let me know if you can SEE where the Holy Spirit came from when it rested upon Jesus = HEAVEN or John

AND = make sure you go back and remove the Red X as you have erred

 

[Wansvic]

Well, it seems you're definitely a true believer; unfortunately what you believe is a lie.

Not so. The truth is I choose to accept the whole counsel of God.

 

[Beckie]

really basic to spiritual maturity-
All four gospels report that, when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the visible form of a dove, (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32).

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

The Baptism of Jesus
Mar 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luk 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

You wrote :

It is the immature that do not walk in His fullness and gifting.
Jesus did not receive multiple "gifting's", the gift of Holy Spirit He received from John the Baptist and imparted to the 12, they to the 70, and beyond to today is the one "gift" all the others spring from.

Which of the above passages say the Holy Spirit was received of Jesus by John the Baptist? ZERO The Holy Spirit came/comes from God. Do you not see what you have said or do you really believe the Holy Spirit came for John? We all goof up posting and should when challenged be willing to correct our goofs.

 

[Wansvic]

@2ndTimothyGroup
For clarification these were your words in post#279 not mine. "Absolutely classic. You decided to write all of this nonsense instead of just answering the questions. Useless."

I do find it interesting that you would deem my suggesting you ask God for the answers to be useless.

 

[DavidTree]

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

The Baptism of Jesus
Mar 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luk 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

You wrote :


Which of the above passages say the Holy Spirit was received of Jesus by John the Baptist? ZERO The Holy Spirit came/comes from God. Do you not see what you have said or do you really believe the Holy Spirit came for John? We all goof up posting and should when challenged be willing to correct our goofs.

It would be contrary to ALL Scripture beginning in Genesis and ending in Revelation that the Holy Spirit comes from man to God.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

"Gifts of healings"

We say that these Gifts are still applicable today, but who is issuing the same kinds of healings that Christ and His Disciples issued 2000 years ago? Someone today is raising the dead? Huh . . . how about that. I haven't heard their names as of yet, so perhaps someone can inform us who possesses this gift.

Who, today, has the ability to eliminate leprosy? Who can replace teeth? Who, today, is granting eyesight to those who were born with blindness from birth? Who, today, can restore a crippled set of hands, or legs? Right . . . there isn't one.

These gifts continue today? Really? Do we believe this because we mumble, we think, Spiritual words (where 1/3 of them begin with the letter "z")?

If healings exist today, let me know, as I'd like a new set of teeth, knees, hips, back, eyes, and of course, I'd really appreciate not having prostate cancer . . . so, would one of you wizards of knowledge please inform me who can take care of these physical problems? I'd really like to be healed.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

@2ndTimothyGroup

For clarification these were your words in post#279 not mine. "Absolutely classic. You decided to write all of this nonsense instead of just answering the questions. Useless."

I do find it interesting that you would deem my suggesting you ask God for the answers to be useless.

We're done. There is no need to write to me until a basic level of maturity finds you. Till then, good luck.

 

[DJT_47]

really? Joel's prophecy:

And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Joel 2:28

obviously NOT just for the apostles....where you receive the understanding it was only for the apostles?

smh

Obviously it is when you carry it forward and link the scriptures together.

Luke 3:16, John the Baptist ref per above,

16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Luke 24:49 (instructions to the apostles)

49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 1: verses 4, 5, 8

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Acts 2:1-4

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

Acts 2:14-18​

14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And the APOSTLES performed many miraculous things and by the laying on of THEIR hands passed the miraculous manifestation of the gifts to others as noted throughout the book of acts such as Acts 5, 6, 8, 19

 

[ResidentAlien]

Thankfully I've got better things to do than spend all day in here debating, like watching paint dry.

 

[Beckie]

what would you call it? None of the scriptures were written in "American"

Never said anything about using the term or not using it, i have used it but i also know it is not a Scriptural term.