Speaking in Tongues

[Polar]

If Paul wrote to the church at Corinth.. then it is firstly for them.

But the principle of saying it is to them, there and then.. is completely normal biblical interpretation.

then nothing in scripture applies to you save salvation. guess you are good to go since that is the most important part

one and done

 

[Polar]

The source of ALL the gifts is the Holy Spirit, again, Jesus did not receive separate gifts, His anointing of Holy Spirit from John gave Him ALL the power and authority He needed.
He imparted to the 12, with the command to heal, raise, cast out, etc. from the same source, Holy Spirit infilling, NOT separate gifting, there are some who are stronger in areas according the the work He calls them to, but it is the same gifting.

What do you do with this?

1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4There are different gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different ministries, but the same Lord. 6There are different ways of working, but the same God works all things in all people.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in various tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines.

The Body of Christ

12The body is a unit, though it is composed of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

14For the body does not consist of one part, but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?

18But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you.” Nor can the head say to the feet, “I do not need you.” 22On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts we consider less honorable, we treat with greater honor. And our unpresentable parts are treated with special modesty, 24whereas our presentable parts have no such need.

But God has composed the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its members should have mutual concern for one another. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

The Greater Gifts

27Now you are the body of Christ, and each of you is a member of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
I Corinthians 12

 

[DavidTree]

Regardless of how a person interprets this passage it doesn't change the fact that it says nothing to suggest that the gift of tongues is active today. If anything it shows it was given by Paul laying his hands on them. They weren't just ordinary individuals who prayed for tongues and received the gift.

The LORD Jesus in His Gospel, Acts and 1 Corinthians all verify that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and His Gifts are for Today and will never cease until we are 'face to face' with Christ.

Cessation of gifts is for the unbelieving and mockers, therefore they do not receive.

God is not mocked, for what a man sows that shall he reap.

 

[shittim]

So John the Baptist gave Jesus His anointing? What kind of a cult are you in ?

It's called Christianity, guess what, the one it is named after even rose from the dead and while here, modeled how we are to live.

 

[wattie]

then nothing in scripture applies to you save salvation. guess you are good to go since that is the most important part

one and done

Weeell I haven't personally addressed you like this.

That's a rough tone. You probably want some kind of opinion v opinion but we gotta go back to scripture itself.

There are all sorts in the NT that have no limit on them from what was witten then to now.

In regards to spiritual gifts... faith, hope and love are of them. That's obviously still going on.

There is the Lord's Supper, tithing, church discipline, discipleship, Bible study..prayer.. etc etc.. all empowered by the Holy Spirit.

So let's talk scripture rather than personally attacking/prodding

 

[wattie]

perhaps reading or studying scripture rather than creating an anecdotal and prejudiced rendering, would grant a more genteel understanding

there is no snake handling in scripture. this is what scripture states:
they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well. Mark 16:18

two interesting things about Mark 16. Verses 9-20 are considered by many experts to be spurious. The other interesting thing, is that the only recorded incident with snakes is Paul being bitten and shaking off the snake when he was shipwrecked. There is no advice or instruction about handling snakes (poisonous)

the custom of foot washing: here is where a little knowledge of customs of the day would go a long way. wearing sandals in hot and dusty Israel would incur hot and dusty feet. I live in FL and can attest to feet becoming dirty and dusty if sandals are worn on paths with no grass or roads with no grass. but how do you possibly seem to equate foot washing with something ONLY done 2000 years ago?

the Bible does not ever state there were actual tongues of fire resting on those receiving the Holy Spirit. This is what scripture states:

They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. Acts 2:3

it was not fire; they described what they saw as fire.

The worst thing, is describing customs as equitable with spiritual realities that it seems you desire no part of

as I maintain, (possibly with few exceptions such as what happened to Paul), don't worry. these things will not be forced upon you

Fair enough, i haven't got the actual descriptions accurate. My bad. Principle remains though is those times were exceptional.

 

[Cameron143]

Just returned from work now.

Your love and the love of the Brethren is precious to me and i also want to have more love and humility as you reminded us of.

PS - you absolutely can have some brotherly fun with me = i was not picking up on that so forgive me

I appreciate your kind words and I never take offense so there is nothing to forgive. Grace and peace.

 

[Evmur]

The completed NT also has snake handling, the custom of foot washing, tongues of fire coming on the assembly at Jerusalem, plus other customs and exceptional things that were part of the times then.

If Paul wrote to the church at Corinth.. then it is firstly for them.

For it to be for us today would require no future limitations on what is being followed.

That is just normal biblical interpretation.

If a leader now says there is a law that all must wear t shirts.. it would apply to us but then 10 years in the future something could happen that annuls that law.

So 'don't forbid to speak in tongues' is to people 2000 years ago.. that may apply to now if the perfect thing is not the finished inspiration of the Scriptures.

But the principle of saying it is to them, there and then.. is completely normal biblical interpretation.

That is not normal or correct biblical interpretation at all, orthodoxy would teach us that what all is written in the bible is for the reader using common sense.

We are not speaking about fashions or customs, we are talking about spiritual gifts and doctrines,

The Corinth church, which incidentally manifested the same spiritual gifts as shown in the book of acts is the pattern for the church for the gospel age. The body of Christ manifesting and ministering in the same Holy Ghost power that He Himself ministered in His body of flesh in Galilee ... we are now His body of flesh doing [or supposed to be doing] the works that He did.

The church changed, God didn't change.

The church has changed it from body of flesh to mystical body

.... because they backslid

 

[ResidentAlien]

The LORD Jesus in His Gospel, Acts and 1 Corinthians all verify that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and His Gifts are for Today and will never cease until we are 'face to face' with Christ.

Cessation of gifts is for the unbelieving and mockers, therefore they do not receive.

God is not mocked, for what a man sows that shall he reap.

Okay, thanks for your input.

 

[hornetguy]

If speaking in tongues was only to show that a specific group of people was accepted of God

I did not make that broad a statement. I said that that instance was a one-off, since it was being used to try to "prove" that tongues are THE proof of the indwelling Spirit.
I have never said that nobody speaks/prays in tongues.
I totally disagree with the false belief that everyone (believers) has to speak in tongues to prove they are indwelt with the Spirit, which is what many of you on here are saying, or at least implying. Many of you are trying to say that if a believer doesn't have tongues, he/she is somehow not as in tune, or not as mature, or somehow their faith is lacking.... they are to be pitied as "lesser" Christians.

I can hear the outcry now.... " I never SAID that! I would never say that!" But you know as well as I do that most "tongue speakers" do look at non-speakers that way. "Oh, you just don't want the gift... Oh, if you would just ask for it in faith...." implying that somehow our faith is not strong enough.... or the extreme of "you just have not experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit... because if you had, you WOULD speak in tongues"....

I've been through this same discussion several times on this forum, and it's always the same...

 

[DJT_47]

this does not say what you believe

if people would simply follow what scripture actually says instead of creating painful mashups to try and make it say something else, things would greatly improve

but believe as you will and you will have results that accompany such belief

Enlighten me. What does it say? When you consider these in total, which are all relevant and related, what do they say?

 

[DavidTree]

I did not make that broad a statement. I said that that instance was a one-off, since it was being used to try to "prove" that tongues are THE proof of the indwelling Spirit.
I have never said that nobody speaks/prays in tongues.
I totally disagree with the false belief that everyone (believers) has to speak in tongues to prove they are indwelt with the Spirit, which is what many of you on here are saying, or at least implying. Many of you are trying to say that if a believer doesn't have tongues, he/she is somehow not as in tune, or not as mature, or somehow their faith is lacking.... they are to be pitied as "lesser" Christians.

I can hear the outcry now.... " I never SAID that! I would never say that!" But you know as well as I do that most "tongue speakers" do look at non-speakers that way. "Oh, you just don't want the gift... Oh, if you would just ask for it in faith...." implying that somehow our faith is not strong enough.... or the extreme of "you just have not experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit... because if you had, you WOULD speak in tongues"....

I've been through this same discussion several times on this forum, and it's always the same...

Good Morning,

i never said that to you or anyone on here.

The most important Truth is this:

And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Please review posts 130 , 131 , 133 , 134 so that you are not swallowed up in a horrific lie. as many are.

 

[Polar]

Weeell I haven't personally addressed you like this.

That's a rough tone. You probably want some kind of opinion v opinion but we gotta go back to scripture itself.

There are all sorts in the NT that have no limit on them from what was witten then to now.

In regards to spiritual gifts... faith, hope and love are of them. That's obviously still going on.

There is the Lord's Supper, tithing, church discipline, discipleship, Bible study..prayer.. etc etc.. all empowered by the Holy Spirit.

So let's talk scripture rather than personally attacking/prodding

oh but I was wearing white gloves while I typed!

seriously? a rough tone? when a person considers how you mishandle and leave out the gifts of God through His Spirit.....

and btw, faith hope and love are not spiritual gifts.

nothing is empowered by the Holy Spirit when you tell Him you do not want what God is offering through Him

there was no rough tone in my post. you are simply offended that I responded to your misdirection of truth

now that last line may be a bit rough

I will add that while people may find comfort in tradition, God does not call us to that

 

[Polar]

Fair enough, i haven't got the actual descriptions accurate. My bad. Principle remains though is those times were exceptional.

as you say, you receive the same way

 

[hornetguy]

Good Morning,

i never said that to you or anyone on here.

The most important Truth is this:

And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Please review posts 130 , 131 , 133 , 134 so that you are not swallowed up in a horrific lie. as many are.

41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.


this is my point..... not all of them spoke in tongues or performed wonders and signs. There were at least three thousand add ON PENTCOST.... the supposed beginning of the "pentecostal gifts".... the "full gospel" gifts.

There is absolutely NO mention of any of the three thousand speaking in tongues to show they had received the Spirit. I believe they all DID receive the Spirit, as Peter said they (we) would, when we repent and are baptized.

The signs and wonders were being done through the apostles.....

 

[hornetguy]

i never said that to you or anyone on here.

I can hear the outcry now.... " I never SAID that! I would never say that!

you heard it here first, folks!

Just messin with you.... but like the guy said, this ain't my first rodeo... we've had these same discussions many times here. You know as well as I know that most pentecostal/tongue-speaking/full-gospel kind of people actually DO think those things about Christians that DON'T speak in tongues. They have a sort of superior, sympathy-filled attitude of pity towards us poor souls that just aren't faithful enough, or don't want it enough, or don't believe enough.... "oh, if you only had what I have...."
OR, they flat out believe that we are not truly saved, and do not have the indwelling Spirit of God....

i won't bore you again with my journey, and my experience in asking for/praying for the gift of tongues... I've been through that in previous discussions.
I have come to the decision that I will believe what God tells us through His word..... that the Spirit will give gifts to each believer as He deems necessary.

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your [l]heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

If I ask for something, and don't receive it, I will continue on under the assumption/belief that the Spirit decided that I don't NEED that particular gift.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Yeah, I think he speaks in tongues for sure, the language of Babel, called babbling. And maybe a little gibberish too. Tongues, like the rest of the gifts listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10, that were of a miraculous nature, no longer exist nor needed as they were then.

Says who? I speak in tongues, and have been doing it for more than 38 years. How arrogant if you, especially when you don’t speak it. You speak out of your flesh.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I speak in tongues, and have been doing it for more than 38 years.

Are we supposed to be impressed?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

#1 Read it again and again to make sure and then, if needed, seek another Brother/Sister in Christ to read it and share.

#2.



You never answered the question in Post 333:
Where is my 'opinion' in Post 329 when giving the direct quote from the Apostle Paul.

Your question = "you have your opinion of what’s there again though where does the scriptire say what your saying ?
It actually doesn’t it’s just how your interpreting it , it’s the same for me it’s just how I’m reading it"

The Holy Spirit has given you the answer but you reject it and then seek to say that it is my opinion or interpretation.

There is no opinion or interpretation of mine found in the direct quote from the Apostle in Post 329.

Now why would you be arguing against the words of the Holy Spirit thru the Apostle Paul?

Direct Quote:

v2 - "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him;
however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries."
v4 The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,

v14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

v15 What then shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

yeah brother anyways I do appreciate your opinions and usually have some agreement but I’m not really interested in going in a circle with you I’ve done that before and it’s exhausting for me

but I’ll let you have that last word God bless brother

 

[wattie]

oh but I was wearing white gloves while I typed!

seriously? a rough tone? when a person considers how you mishandle and leave out the gifts of God through His Spirit.....

and btw, faith hope and love are not spiritual gifts.

nothing is empowered by the Holy Spirit when you tell Him you do not want what God is offering through Him

there was no rough tone in my post. you are simply offended that I responded to your misdirection of truth

now that last line may be a bit rough

I will add that while people may find comfort in tradition, God does not call us to that

Weeell faith hope and love for a believer are empowered by the Holy Spirit. Christian faith hope and love is all together different to the worlds version.

Like when you are convicted in your heart by the Holy Spirit about something. Christian faith hope and love is unselfish. The world's version is self empowerment usually