Speculation for a seemingly biblical contradiction

[Runningman]

Golly thank’s for your NON-“encouragement!” I think I’ll stick around just to see if there are any real loving Christians here before I seek fellowship in Christ elsewhere on the net.

I think it's really unfortunate you have decided to escalate an opportunity for learning and discussion into false accusations of me being a unloving and false Christian. I take back what I said, I don't get a good vibe around you to be quite honest. I'll pray for you.

 

[Benadam]

Has anyone considered that paradise and heaven are not the same place?

I hope so. I assumed that was a given. 😕

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Judge not lest ye be judged! Your accusation revels a suspicious opinion I'll attempt to ignore and forgive you for going forward,

Jesus said: 1 Corinthians 10:15: "I speak as to wise men; you judge what I say." That verse is Jesus saying to judge if what he says is true or not.

Making judgements to a Christians means to discern the truth from error. The "judge not" verse you tried to use refers to standing by your own judgement on others and be judged ourselves for the the same thing. I am willing.

I judged your error and also pointed out that you are probably trolling web sites that have what is termed (by them) as scripture error.
Won't work for those who know their bibles. I'll stand by that judgment!

 

[Blain]

Thank's Blain, beautiful testimony. I'd love a dream such. I think God has many, many "other worlds. In a scientific context, it's easily pictured by me as other planets in other solar systems with God's perfect creations and perfect love and absolute justice, those things we lack here. It's easy for me to picture those that God has taken alive from our cursed and evil planet enjoying a perfect world on a perfect planet elsewhere.

There is actually a movie I saw with that exact theme. The tribulation began and this man and his son befriended a women and her daughter now this part is a bit strange but aliens invaded the earth but could speak to the children without even saying a word they only spoke and could be heard by the pure of heart but the world was in terror at the end of the movie the two children were taken on the ship the father and women were left behind and the children were taken to a place that was on another planet and it was amazing they ran through these beautiful fields together and other people were there as well.

I think this movie was very prophetic the aliens I think were actually angels but to the world they were aliens

 

[Benadam]

Might it be that Enoch, Elijah, along with others of our faith in love, truth, and justice, who have gone up into heaven are those under the altar in heaven (Revelation 6:9-11), and are not fully entered into what is the Father's temple (Revelation 15:8), until His wrath upon the faithless is complete?

Please I mean no offense. Those under the altar are martyrs. Elijah and Enoch haven't experienced death. I posit that Satan was corrected about having the body of Moses.

 

[Blain]

ROBO:
John 3:13 does not teach that no one has ever seen or entered heaven. It teaches that no man ever climbed up into heaven by his own power. The only one who has ever ascended to heaven in His own strength is the One who originated in heaven and came down to earth before He ascended. I hope this helps explain the verse to you.

Taking one verse out of the context of the message always produces confusion or worse...some bad doctrine.
Since your question was not original with you (as you are well aware)......and as this "problem" has been posed many times before on-line, I can only assume you desire to cause strife and doubt among the weak in faith. Shame.

Heaven is an eternal place we are not eternal now paradise on the other hand or a place of safe keeping is different John did go to heaven but you are right it was not by his own strength but you are wrong about his motives

Like the place I went to it wasn't heaven but I was in a heavenly place and it was in a dream so not by my own strength

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Heaven is an eternal place we are not eternal now paradise on the other hand or a place of safe keeping is different John did go to heaven but you are right it was not by his own strength but you are wrong about his motives

Like the place I went to it wasn't heaven but I was in a heavenly place and it was in a dream so not by my own strength

so.....EXACTLY where was I wrong? Just saying I was wrong is a straw man that means nothing. I've checked out some of those web sites....they are used by folks like Robo who want attention by posting something terrible for the Christian heart to let pass without trying to correct. It's to catch the unwary into debate, while the original post-person pretends all innocence and just wanting "help". Knowing the difference is called MATURITY in the faith. Press on.

 

[Benadam]

@Robo and Blain. Be careful. I feel I should tell you. Love requires it of me. Satan wants our minds looking outward for salvation. The people of the world seek peace and salvation in the possibilities in the vastness of the universe. Technology and exploration are tools to cement that deception in the the unconscious part of our minds. It's to make life better no? Even though there is no evidence that will make that happen. Grace and Peace.

 

[Magenta]

I hope so. I assumed that was a given. 😕

I see people conflating them quite often. Same as for hell and the LoF.

 

[Blain]

so.....EXACTLY where was I wrong? Just saying I was wrong is a straw man that means nothing. I've checked out some of those web sites....they are used by folks like Robo who want attention by posting something terrible for the Christian heart to let pass without trying to correct. It's to catch the unwary into debate, while the original post-person pretends all innocence and just wanting "help". Knowing the difference is called MATURITY in the faith. Press on.

I said you were wrong about his motives he clearly said it was just speculation if he was trolling then he would have said or implied it was truth. And yes perhaps he should have put it in the misc. section but until I see evidence of a troll I like to give others the benifet of the doubt we can be aware but if we are to suspicious of people then we will call a troll when in fact they are not. there are many factors to consider they could be new believers they could not be that far into maturity yet or they could just be giving their own thoughts. Perhaps I should not have said you were wrong that was a poor choice of word on my part and I apologize for that but I would say give him a chance to show his fruits first.

I always have to test the spirits for msyelf before I jump to any conclusions

 

[Blain]

@Robo and Blain. Be careful. I feel I should tell you. Love requires it of me. Satan wants our minds looking outward for salvation. The people of the world seek peace and salvation in the possibilities in the vastness of the universe. Technology and exploration are tools to cement that deception in the the unconscious part of our minds. It's to make life better no? Even though there is no evidence that will make that happen. Grace and Peace.

No worries I probably should have been more specific as far as other worlds go idk but I do think the symbolism of the movie is prophetic the tribulation will come suddenly and only the pure of heart will be taken to safety (those in Christ)

 

[Benadam]

No worries I probably should have been more specific as far as other worlds go idk but I do think the symbolism of the movie is prophetic the tribulation will come suddenly and only the pure of heart will be taken to safety (those in Christ)

Well, it's a beautiful story and stories like this one reach into us by the use of universal symbols. Archetypes like salvation and paradise cause us to seek resolution. Its certainly found in the movie. Why just the kids I wonder. We must be like children perhaps?

 

[Benadam]

Well, it's a beautiful story and stories like this one reach into us by the use of universal symbols. Archetypes like salvation and paradise cause us to seek resolution. Its certainly found in the movie. Why just the kids I wonder. We must be like children perhaps?

@Blain I should have read your post more carefully. You answered my questions about the movie.

 

[Robo36]

I judged your error and also pointed out that you are probably trolling web sites that have what is termed (by them) as scripture error.
Won't work for those who know their bibles. I'll stand by that judgment!

Thank's for your christian love and fellowship. Too bad, I suppose, I''m unworthy. Trolls are legendary little green dwarf disciples of Satan himself that live under bridges, right? Now you have a picture in your mind of my appearance & you know better than cross my bridge, huh?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I said you were wrong about his motives he clearly said it was just speculation if he was trolling then he would have said or implied it was truth. And yes perhaps he should have put it in the misc. section but until I see evidence of a troll I like to give others the benifet of the doubt we can be aware but if we are to suspicious of people then we will call a troll when in fact they are not. there are many factors to consider they could be new believers they could not be that far into maturity yet or they could just be giving their own thoughts. Perhaps I should not have said you were wrong that was a poor choice of word on my part and I apologize for that but I would say give him a chance to show his fruits first.

I always have to test the spirits for msyelf before I jump to any conclusions

The thing here is: you don't KNOW that I am wrong about his motives. So unfair criticism....I tested that spirit....only Satan questions the word of God, it began with this: (Satan to Eve: "did God REALLY say......?)

 

[Blain]

Well, it's a beautiful story and stories like this one reach into us by the use of universal symbols. Archetypes like salvation and paradise cause us to seek resolution. Its certainly found in the movie. Why just the kids I wonder. We must be like children perhaps?

yeps exactly and yes only the kids because of that exact reason

 

[Blain]

The thing here is: you don't KNOW that I am wrong about his motives. So unfair criticism....I tested that spirit....only Satan questions the word of God, it began with this: (Satan to Eve: "did God REALLY say......?)

And I apologozed for saying you were wrong but tell me how did you test his spirit? And he wasn't questioning the word of God he was asking about a different perspective

 

[Robo36]

The thing here is: you don't KNOW that I am wrong about his motives. So unfair criticism....I tested that spirit....only Satan questions the word of God, it began with this: (Satan to Eve: "did God REALLY say......?)

Make sure you visit my every post and denounce me as a satanic slimy green troll because I ask questions you can't answer. Actually in my opinion you're simply proving you have zero christian values yourself. I'll pray for you!

 

[Scribe]

“Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him" reads Genesis 5:22–24

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.".

In John 3:13, Jesus tells us the following: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13)

Might I speculate about this seemingly biblical contradiction? First let me say, I’m attempting to in no way take from, or add too the biblical scriptures. My opinions here are simply speculation ^ pure unproven opinion, & I welcome all to speculate with me.

It seems that common sense would have it that Enoch and Elijah either “ascended” to earth from heaven, or didn’t go to heaven. I’m subscribing to the latter with pure speculation. I speculate that in the Father’s House are many mansions, i.e. “Other worlds,” i.e. planets, thus I’m speculating that Enoch & Elijah were taken by the Lord to other perfect worlds in God’s great universe? What’s your opinion?

They were both taken somewhere. Elijah in particular was taken into heaven in the perspective of the witness and the rest is a mystery. We do not know what level of heaven. We call everything above us the heavens but there is also a spiritual mystery to the invisible world we only get glimpses of and yet it is a spiritual realm and not physical. Planets are not spiritual.

We call this other place heaven even if there are different levels to it that we don't yet know about. Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses ... this comes after Heb 11 list of saints who are examples of faith and included Enoch., therefore these witnesses of Heb 11 are said to be in some way witnesses of the race we are running. Again it is a mystery but there is no contradiction to "No man has ascended" in the same sense and level that Jesus has ascended.

And no it would not make any logical sense to apply a physical realm of just another planet to a spiritual realm that the scriptures are referring to when Elijah was taken up into heaven in chariots and horses of fire. It is of another world for sure but not a physical world but a higher heavenly world.

 

[Robo36]

OBSERVATION!

Don't ask questions here or propose answers for same! Doing so guarantees you a TROLL title with some alleged Christians.