Struggling to equate the God of the Old Testament and the God of Jesus
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You know, I have been thinking along these lines and suddenly Ecclesiastes Chapter 3 is saying almost the same thing. I thought it was worldly advice of how we are to live out our days "under the sun." But, I believe it is God speaking about all he has done, all he is doing, and all he will yet to do again that he has already done in the past.
Ecc 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
Basically, that now is the time for what he has done to Jerusalem in the past and is determined to do it now and will not forebear.
Ecc 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
Basically, that now is the time for what he has done to Jerusalem in the past and is determined to do it now and will not forebear.
Exodus 33v18, 34v5-7:
"And he said, "Please, show me Your glory."...Now the Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands..."
The God of the OT has exactly the same character as that in the new. Mal 3v6, Eph 3v19, Heb 13v8.
I suggest you do a Hebrew word study on the words in bold red...for His Glory is His Character! John 3v16, 1John 4v8,16.
"And he said, "Please, show me Your glory."...Now the Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands..."
The God of the OT has exactly the same character as that in the new. Mal 3v6, Eph 3v19, Heb 13v8.
I suggest you do a Hebrew word study on the words in bold red...for His Glory is His Character! John 3v16, 1John 4v8,16.
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Yo SoulSearcher
You are not the 1st who has puzzled over this one and you won't be the last ...
In this Jehovah in the OT is exactly the same as Jesus [who IS Jehovah] in the NT. If people would come to Him and humble themselves to Him He ALWAYS UNFAILINGLY received them with mercy and grace, that is exactly the same in the OT as the NT. He never turned anybody away and He never will.
God's wrath is against sin, He knows exactly where it leads to, what it has done to humankind and He hates it, He does love the sinner.
You are not the 1st who has puzzled over this one and you won't be the last ...
In this Jehovah in the OT is exactly the same as Jesus [who IS Jehovah] in the NT. If people would come to Him and humble themselves to Him He ALWAYS UNFAILINGLY received them with mercy and grace, that is exactly the same in the OT as the NT. He never turned anybody away and He never will.
God's wrath is against sin, He knows exactly where it leads to, what it has done to humankind and He hates it, He does love the sinner.
I haven't read the previous replies to your opening statement, but I doubt that anyone has mentioned that those whom the Lord relentlessly killed and seemed unforgiving, these are the abominations that belonged to the Seven Nations. Who are the Seven Nations?
Deuteronomy 7:1-5 NKJV - "When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, 2 "and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them [and] utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. 3 "Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. 4 "For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the LORD will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly. 5 "But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their [sacred] pillars, and cut down their wooden images, and burn their carved images with fire."
There are several other references to these Nations, saying much of the same thing. It seems clear that these abominations are the result of Sons of God found in Genesis 6, who were also found post Noah's Flood. The Nephlim had returned. Through Noah's son, Ham, the Canaanites were formed, and this seems to likely be the root of how these people came to be. The descendants of Ham were likely falling victim to the Sons of God as were humans in Genesis 6. Hence, we have these groups of people who became such wretched abominations, that the Lord called for them to be completely wiped out. In other words, these people were pure evil. They had no role in Heaven. These "creations" were created by God, but created for destruction. Ultimately, this means that you and I should not feel pain, grief, or remorse for them. They were abominations! This is why David was allowed to "raid," which meant him being known for killing "tens of thousands," yet these killings were led and empowered by God Himself, which is why David was not guilty of sin in nearly all of his bloodshed.
If you look closely, we'll find that God allowed the Jews to intermarry with those of the East, also known as the Gentiles, but for those of the Seven Nations, they were clearly called, by God, to be completely wiped out. Correct, there are three groups of "people" on earth . . . or at least, there were three groups. The Jews, Gentiles, and the abominations from the Seven Nations. The Jews could marry the Gentiles, but they could not intermarry with the Seven Nations. Deuteronomy chapters 20 and 21 deal specifically with this issue, making the clear distinction of the Seven Nations and the Gentiles. (Not sure why pastors don't teach this . . . it's important.)
Also, another massive "thing" that throws us off is the language found in the Old Testament. We read of how God is angry with humanity. I believe that in early Genesis, we find that God says that He is regretful that He ever made us. And while these "feelings" that God shares with us are undeniably True, these Words make it seem like He's totally out of control! These Words totally throw off our concept of the Bible because again, they make it appear that God is merely a bystander to the events of the world, when He absolutely is not! The Lord is in control of all things . . . right down to the lives of falcons and owls. Anything written in the Heavenly Scrolls will take place. No human can alter these Scrolls; it is impossible and foolish for anyone to think otherwise.
Isaiah 34:14-16 NIV - "Desert creatures will meet with hyenas, and wild goats will bleat to each other; there the night creatures will also lie down and find for themselves places of rest. 15 The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together."
So when the Lord states that He is regretful or angry (over humanity), God can still feel all of this grief, even though it is His Eternal Plan. There [is] and Eternal Plan!
Ephesians 3:11 NLT - "This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord." - I just used this passage to show that there [is] a Plan. Great set of verses . . . read these.
So . . . Jesus dying on the Cross was always the Eternal Plan. But just because there is an Eternal Plan, this does not take away from the pains and agonies that go with it, such as God watching His Son die on the Cross. Just because this was God's Holy Plan, it does not mean that the Plan is without pain and grief. So why would the Lord create such an incredibly painful Plan? To show His Almighty Power! The Bible is simply the most remarkable concept ever imagined. It is impossible that humans could figure out such an incredible thing. The Bible is the most impossible story ever imagined, but the story promises that it will be this same God, who has the Power . . . to make all of this right!
You MUST know this story of the Bible. Therefore, I am giving you this challenge, which is to read the entire Bible, but in a timeline, Chronological manner. Until you learn this story, the questions and answers that we provide will simply never make any True sense. It isn't going to happen. You must put the entire story into your mind . . . so that it will get into your soul and Heart. If you're currently following a Bible reading plan, stop. It's a waste of time. Follow the link below and I promise you . . . your life will change.
Microsoft Word - Plan4.docx (blueletterbible.org)
Deuteronomy 7:1-5 NKJV - "When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, 2 "and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them [and] utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. 3 "Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. 4 "For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the LORD will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly. 5 "But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their [sacred] pillars, and cut down their wooden images, and burn their carved images with fire."
There are several other references to these Nations, saying much of the same thing. It seems clear that these abominations are the result of Sons of God found in Genesis 6, who were also found post Noah's Flood. The Nephlim had returned. Through Noah's son, Ham, the Canaanites were formed, and this seems to likely be the root of how these people came to be. The descendants of Ham were likely falling victim to the Sons of God as were humans in Genesis 6. Hence, we have these groups of people who became such wretched abominations, that the Lord called for them to be completely wiped out. In other words, these people were pure evil. They had no role in Heaven. These "creations" were created by God, but created for destruction. Ultimately, this means that you and I should not feel pain, grief, or remorse for them. They were abominations! This is why David was allowed to "raid," which meant him being known for killing "tens of thousands," yet these killings were led and empowered by God Himself, which is why David was not guilty of sin in nearly all of his bloodshed.
If you look closely, we'll find that God allowed the Jews to intermarry with those of the East, also known as the Gentiles, but for those of the Seven Nations, they were clearly called, by God, to be completely wiped out. Correct, there are three groups of "people" on earth . . . or at least, there were three groups. The Jews, Gentiles, and the abominations from the Seven Nations. The Jews could marry the Gentiles, but they could not intermarry with the Seven Nations. Deuteronomy chapters 20 and 21 deal specifically with this issue, making the clear distinction of the Seven Nations and the Gentiles. (Not sure why pastors don't teach this . . . it's important.)
Also, another massive "thing" that throws us off is the language found in the Old Testament. We read of how God is angry with humanity. I believe that in early Genesis, we find that God says that He is regretful that He ever made us. And while these "feelings" that God shares with us are undeniably True, these Words make it seem like He's totally out of control! These Words totally throw off our concept of the Bible because again, they make it appear that God is merely a bystander to the events of the world, when He absolutely is not! The Lord is in control of all things . . . right down to the lives of falcons and owls. Anything written in the Heavenly Scrolls will take place. No human can alter these Scrolls; it is impossible and foolish for anyone to think otherwise.
Isaiah 34:14-16 NIV - "Desert creatures will meet with hyenas, and wild goats will bleat to each other; there the night creatures will also lie down and find for themselves places of rest. 15 The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together."
So when the Lord states that He is regretful or angry (over humanity), God can still feel all of this grief, even though it is His Eternal Plan. There [is] and Eternal Plan!
Ephesians 3:11 NLT - "This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord." - I just used this passage to show that there [is] a Plan. Great set of verses . . . read these.
So . . . Jesus dying on the Cross was always the Eternal Plan. But just because there is an Eternal Plan, this does not take away from the pains and agonies that go with it, such as God watching His Son die on the Cross. Just because this was God's Holy Plan, it does not mean that the Plan is without pain and grief. So why would the Lord create such an incredibly painful Plan? To show His Almighty Power! The Bible is simply the most remarkable concept ever imagined. It is impossible that humans could figure out such an incredible thing. The Bible is the most impossible story ever imagined, but the story promises that it will be this same God, who has the Power . . . to make all of this right!
You MUST know this story of the Bible. Therefore, I am giving you this challenge, which is to read the entire Bible, but in a timeline, Chronological manner. Until you learn this story, the questions and answers that we provide will simply never make any True sense. It isn't going to happen. You must put the entire story into your mind . . . so that it will get into your soul and Heart. If you're currently following a Bible reading plan, stop. It's a waste of time. Follow the link below and I promise you . . . your life will change.
Microsoft Word - Plan4.docx (blueletterbible.org)