Stupid things 'Christians' do
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S
I think so? To be honest, I'm failing to draw a huge distinction between what we're saying though? Let me take some time to absorb this more fully.
Can't recall why I so emphasized the "*AND*" part at this point? I think that I was headed in another direction before that and failed to remove all the extra stuff?
The "power to do His will" is something like works later on? Post conversion. (Its seems most agree apart from the works v grace debate, that we are all ultimately saved for good works.)
Its been a long but very blessed day for me. There are quite a number of people (couple of dozen) on here that I've followed closely for awhile now and I read threads by subject and not author. So I probably won't try to mention every individual going forward. But I really appreciate all you guys. That Tilton post wiped me out.
It won't be long now until there is no more pain. No more debates. No more questions. No more struggles. Praise His mighty name!
Can't recall why I so emphasized the "*AND*" part at this point? I think that I was headed in another direction before that and failed to remove all the extra stuff?
The "power to do His will" is something like works later on? Post conversion. (Its seems most agree apart from the works v grace debate, that we are all ultimately saved for good works.)
Its been a long but very blessed day for me. There are quite a number of people (couple of dozen) on here that I've followed closely for awhile now and I read threads by subject and not author. So I probably won't try to mention every individual going forward. But I really appreciate all you guys. That Tilton post wiped me out.
It won't be long now until there is no more pain. No more debates. No more questions. No more struggles. Praise His mighty name!
I see good works as being both necessary and unnecessary. There's nothing we can do to earn, or make ourselves worthy of, salvation. This allows us to relax and just do good things, which is half of what GOD wants. The other half is necessary for salvation, and that is to be holy. And the way we do that is by remaining holy, i.e., not living sinful lives. Yes, yes, I know that we are all sinful, but that is just an excuse. We've been given the ability to overcome sin, and we better get good at it.
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep oneself undefiled by the world. James 1:27
S
I'm sure it isn't his most honest statement. Was caught up in hyperbole.
I wonder about these guys. Did they start out knowing this is wrong and just go with it? Or do they start out okay and somehow get off track? Are they truly conscious of it or are they just in grievous error? Did they give themselves over, knowingly to a lie, at some point?
They definitely have their negative impact on the world and the Kingdom.
Am expecting a visit from Yet on this one. I was all prepared to say "I feel your pain!" But then it dawned on me, I don't feel any pain in regards to this. I don't feel anything. I hadn't even recalled for years until today. (all the stuff previous to the dirt bikers.) I'm free! Man, it sure use to burn me up! Wow. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I can't believe that my friend telling me his story didn't trigger my memory of the wifey?? Oh well. I guess that I have truly forgiven her?
There is hope for the victims of these people to get past it. May it be so.
I wonder about these guys. Did they start out knowing this is wrong and just go with it? Or do they start out okay and somehow get off track? Are they truly conscious of it or are they just in grievous error? Did they give themselves over, knowingly to a lie, at some point?
They definitely have their negative impact on the world and the Kingdom.
Am expecting a visit from Yet on this one. I was all prepared to say "I feel your pain!" But then it dawned on me, I don't feel any pain in regards to this. I don't feel anything. I hadn't even recalled for years until today. (all the stuff previous to the dirt bikers.) I'm free! Man, it sure use to burn me up! Wow. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I can't believe that my friend telling me his story didn't trigger my memory of the wifey?? Oh well. I guess that I have truly forgiven her?
There is hope for the victims of these people to get past it. May it be so.
I think many of them are straight up charlatans and know it. Marjoe Gortner is the best example of this. He exposed himself in a documentary. I think many of the "preachers" of today are just like him. The bible does say they some people are "deceiving and being deceived". So I would see a mix of knowing and unknowing what they are doing. I would say most know they are robbing people while on the other hand are deceived in that they don't even believe the bible themselves. It's just a money racket for them.
As for the congregations under these men and women, I dunno. I think many of them are honestly seeking God. But all they have been shown are fakes. The problem for them comes when someone exposes the preachers for their blatant heresy and the congregation members then reject the truth and defend the falsehood. There is where their own guilt comes in. They don't love the truth and they would rather believe the lie and create an idol of who they want God to be rather than accept him for who he is. So their sincerity is wasted as they choose deception over truth.
As for the congregations under these men and women, I dunno. I think many of them are honestly seeking God. But all they have been shown are fakes. The problem for them comes when someone exposes the preachers for their blatant heresy and the congregation members then reject the truth and defend the falsehood. There is where their own guilt comes in. They don't love the truth and they would rather believe the lie and create an idol of who they want God to be rather than accept him for who he is. So their sincerity is wasted as they choose deception over truth.
S
I appreciate the response.
"This allows us to relax and just do good things, which is half of what GOD wants."
RELAX ON
"The other half is necessary for salvation, and that is to be holy. And the way we do that is by remaining holy, i.e., not living sinful lives."
RELAX OFF
Yeah... this one. I've been mostly a OSAS. In more recent years have been questioning this though. Been intrigued by a youtube preacher that I've started listening to who says ISAS. If saved, always saved. I understand this is not your position. Not entirely sure myself? I see very compelling arguments for both positions. Both in black and in red.
"This allows us to relax and just do good things, which is half of what GOD wants."
RELAX ON
"The other half is necessary for salvation, and that is to be holy. And the way we do that is by remaining holy, i.e., not living sinful lives."
RELAX OFF
Yeah... this one. I've been mostly a OSAS. In more recent years have been questioning this though. Been intrigued by a youtube preacher that I've started listening to who says ISAS. If saved, always saved. I understand this is not your position. Not entirely sure myself? I see very compelling arguments for both positions. Both in black and in red.
How about ASIP - Always Saved In Perseverance? Here's something you can think on while sorting it out (I'm still doing the same, but I have to admit that my focus has gotten sharper in the past few months):
Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you rejoice greatly, [although] now for a short time, if it is necessary, you are distressed by various trials, so that the genuineness of your faith, more valuable than gold that is passing away, but is tested by fire, may be found to [result in] praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 1:3-7
Same for me. I was pretty much word of faith for a long time and didn't even realize it. Never knew much about "celeb preachers", but from local preaching and my own corruption of scripture. When the day came where I finally surrendered to Jesus, it was some radical changes to everything I had ever known or believed. Was a pretty painful experience for me honestly, but one I am forever grateful for.
And about fringes - unfortunately, this is mainstream Christianity any more. I know we put a lot of older outdated teachers and men and women up here, but what has happened is that millions of apostate churches worldwide have spawned in their wake and rest on the foundation that they built.
Their teachings are prevalent in most of Christendom and this is what the world sees as Christianity when it's really just a mockery of the true faith. Their flawed theologies and the occultic practices and teachings they were blatantly teaching in the past has only been refined and masked more cleverly and covered in a blanket of emotional experience for "credibility's" sake while dangerous doctrines and heresies are slipped in ever so subtly.
And about fringes - unfortunately, this is mainstream Christianity any more. I know we put a lot of older outdated teachers and men and women up here, but what has happened is that millions of apostate churches worldwide have spawned in their wake and rest on the foundation that they built.
Their teachings are prevalent in most of Christendom and this is what the world sees as Christianity when it's really just a mockery of the true faith. Their flawed theologies and the occultic practices and teachings they were blatantly teaching in the past has only been refined and masked more cleverly and covered in a blanket of emotional experience for "credibility's" sake while dangerous doctrines and heresies are slipped in ever so subtly.
S
I may be using WoF a bit incorrectly? I was basically charismatic. Or encouraged to go that route. After all, it was some of those folks who led me to Christ. But, man, it was kinda far out. I was cautioned about denominations. And with the traditions, that not entirely bad advice. Once I discovered a non-denominational bible church, I felt it was about the 'cleanest' I would find.
Perhaps, ironically, but I find this all mildly reassuring in terms of the accuracy of prophecy. It is exactly what we should expect.
Perhaps, ironically, but I find this all mildly reassuring in terms of the accuracy of prophecy. It is exactly what we should expect.
And many more than him. All the hyper grace preachers. bethel church/Jesus culture, international house of prayer, g12 movement, all the high and low key prosperity preachers, the vineyard church and the movement it started, new apostolic reformation, emergent church movement, charismatica, many pentecostals, and on and on. I know some of those cross into the same categories. Then there are the millions of local churches that follow the lead of the torch bearers of these movements. The times are darker than they seem to some people I think.
Some good advice for sure about the denominations and traditions but often cult groups use that to keep people ingrained in their system and snuff out the desire of the members to look for the truth and be Bereans. On the other extreme, you have those who are universalists saying we are all on the same level when that isn't true at all. In fact, many of them contradict themselves. While telling the congregation to be wary of other denoms, their defense when opposed with truth from others, especially publicly, is "aren't we all Christians and should just get along regardless of doctrine, theology, etc.". Well, the answer is no, we aren't all Christians and we aren't on the same level and sound doctrine is vital to our faith and the defense of it.
Agree about it being part of prophecy. As edifying as that is, I can't help but still mourn for those lost in the apostate churches. It's edifying and sickening and sad all at once.
I'm glad you found a church and got away from the nonsense. You are one of the few I think who ever will.
Agree about it being part of prophecy. As edifying as that is, I can't help but still mourn for those lost in the apostate churches. It's edifying and sickening and sad all at once.
I'm glad you found a church and got away from the nonsense
. You are one of the few I think who ever will.
Here is one of the so-called "heretic" believers from those " heretic " places mentioned in this thread...if your heart is not affected by this...there is something drastic that has happened to your heart....you have been infected by the anti-Christ spirit .......selah
[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]
[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]