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Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Eph 5:21
If I am reading this right we should do what is asked of us, unless there is a reason not to.
It appears therefore we are commanded to submit, so that we honour the Lord.
It tends to create in people a willingness to know the individual concerned is reliable to help if needed which generally is a very good thing, and helps people feel supported.
The down side is some people do literally take advantage and you have to say sometimes too much.
Eph 5:21
If I am reading this right we should do what is asked of us, unless there is a reason not to.
It appears therefore we are commanded to submit, so that we honour the Lord.
It tends to create in people a willingness to know the individual concerned is reliable to help if needed which generally is a very good thing, and helps people feel supported.
The down side is some people do literally take advantage and you have to say sometimes too much.
To submit you must trust. Submission to God is based on trust that God knows more and loves more than you do.
Does your spouse trust you? Does your spouse trust the Lord? Do you honor and cherish that trust? Submission becomes natural when you are able to trust the Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Does your spouse trust you? Does your spouse trust the Lord? Do you honor and cherish that trust? Submission becomes natural when you are able to trust the Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
Possible to get some feedback on this? please?
ok ...we have earn, force and give
I found a site this am, that I think really addresses the submission question
Following quote is from that site
Christian submission is defined by the relationship between God the Father and Son. It cannot be properly understood apart from that mooring. Hence, I believe it is unwise for us to uphold the instruction for wives to submit themselves to their husbands as an achievable standard for those outside the faith community. People without the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit have neither the discernment nor the power to live out submission and authority in a godly manner.
So if anyone is still responding here, what do you think of this? Especially the underlined part?
Is this an aspect that gets left out?
And this as well:
Men have a responsibility to submit too—it’s not just something that’s required of women. EVERY Christian, female or male, has the responsibility to submit to the Lord, and also to the authorities the Lord has placed in his or her life. What’s more, the biblical concepts of submission and authority cannot be disassociated. The two are indivisibly connected. A biblical definition of submission cannot be understood apart from a biblical definition of authority.
I'll post more for consideration depending on how this goes...cause I think it is giving me a different perspective
ok ...we have earn, force and give
I found a site this am, that I think really addresses the submission question
Following quote is from that site
Christian submission is defined by the relationship between God the Father and Son. It cannot be properly understood apart from that mooring. Hence, I believe it is unwise for us to uphold the instruction for wives to submit themselves to their husbands as an achievable standard for those outside the faith community. People without the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit have neither the discernment nor the power to live out submission and authority in a godly manner.
So if anyone is still responding here, what do you think of this? Especially the underlined part?
Is this an aspect that gets left out?
And this as well:
Men have a responsibility to submit too—it’s not just something that’s required of women. EVERY Christian, female or male, has the responsibility to submit to the Lord, and also to the authorities the Lord has placed in his or her life. What’s more, the biblical concepts of submission and authority cannot be disassociated. The two are indivisibly connected. A biblical definition of submission cannot be understood apart from a biblical definition of authority.
I'll post more for consideration depending on how this goes...cause I think it is giving me a different perspective
E
yes...thanks Marc! That is what I am seeing and trying to emphasize...and then also I wanted to work towards our example..Jesus...who WILLINGLY placed Himself under His Father's authority...He submitted...but I think we need to see that
almost like a revelation from the Holy Spirit because so many of us...well women especially...have no desire to submit as some teach
But I think there is a whole other world regarding submission...
Here is another excerpt:
A husband does not have the right to demand or extract submission from his wife. Submission is HER choice—her responsibility… it is NOT his right!! Not ever. She is to “submit herself”— deciding when and how to submit is her call. In a Christian marriage, the focus is never on rights, but on personal responsibility. It’s his responsibility to be affectionate. It’s her responsibility to be agreeable. The husband’s responsibility is to sacrificially love as Christ loved the Church—not to make his wife submit.
almost like a revelation from the Holy Spirit because so many of us...well women especially...have no desire to submit as some teach
But I think there is a whole other world regarding submission...
Here is another excerpt:
A husband does not have the right to demand or extract submission from his wife. Submission is HER choice—her responsibility… it is NOT his right!! Not ever. She is to “submit herself”— deciding when and how to submit is her call. In a Christian marriage, the focus is never on rights, but on personal responsibility. It’s his responsibility to be affectionate. It’s her responsibility to be agreeable. The husband’s responsibility is to sacrificially love as Christ loved the Church—not to make his wife submit.
The thought of joint submission to each other is interesting with the opposite joint dominance of each other.
In joint submission, you are forced to consider the other party and work for a balance from the other parties perspective, rather if you dominate, you are forcing the other party to agree with a power play or black mail.
Maybe this is the two kingdoms, the one of light is being a servant to each other, working out what is possible, and the world of darkness is where the most powerful win through force of position and no one knows the weaker parties needs.
Marriages that work seem to be where people work for each other, and those that fail focus often on only one dominant party, whether male or female.
In joint submission, you are forced to consider the other party and work for a balance from the other parties perspective, rather if you dominate, you are forcing the other party to agree with a power play or black mail.
Maybe this is the two kingdoms, the one of light is being a servant to each other, working out what is possible, and the world of darkness is where the most powerful win through force of position and no one knows the weaker parties needs.
Marriages that work seem to be where people work for each other, and those that fail focus often on only one dominant party, whether male or female.
S
I'm not sure that "earning" submission is a biblical concept....it's just something that God made that is good and should be done mutually in kindness, connectedness and love for one another and God. I'm of the mindset that at least in the marital realm, forced submission allowing oneself to be dominated.....are two people conspiring in ignorance. I'm sure I'm gonna get flak for that comment. 
I can see how submission to an imperfect person would be much more difficult than submission to God.
But I wonder if you can see how hard it is to love an imperfect person as Christ loves His Church?
Its a difficult situation all the way around.
I wonder how we can overcome this?
To us, it always seems like we are trying harder than the other person. But are we? Just as we give excuses for ourselves do we give those excuses for the other?
Its hard for narcissistic, selfish people to lay down their issues.
I'm trying to be like Christ and all you people are ruining it for me...
But I wonder if you can see how hard it is to love an imperfect person as Christ loves His Church?
Its a difficult situation all the way around.
I wonder how we can overcome this?
To us, it always seems like we are trying harder than the other person. But are we? Just as we give excuses for ourselves do we give those excuses for the other?
Its hard for narcissistic, selfish people to lay down their issues.
I'm trying to be like Christ and all you people are ruining it for me...
E
yes exactly...we approach from our own understanding...understandably...and offer reasons and deters for what is staring us in the face
but I am having a fresh look at this and now it makes much better sense to me
golly...I would like to post the whole article, but will anyone read the thing? well here goes...
[h=2]Seven Misconceptions about Submission:[/h][h=4]Misconception #1: Submission is universal—the directive can be applied correctly by all, even those outside of the faith community.[/h]
but I am having a fresh look at this and now it makes much better sense to me
golly...I would like to post the whole article, but will anyone read the thing? well here goes...
[h=2]Seven Misconceptions about Submission:[/h][h=4]Misconception #1: Submission is universal—the directive can be applied correctly by all, even those outside of the faith community.[/h]
Christian submission is defined by the relationship between God the Father and Son. It cannot be properly understood apart from that mooring. Hence, I believe it is unwise for us to uphold the instruction for wives to submit themselves to their husbands as an achievable standard for those outside the faith community. People without the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit have neither the discernment nor the power to live out submission and authority in a godly manner.
[h=4]Misconception #2: Submission is gender-exclusive—it’s just for women.[/h]
Men have a responsibility to submit too—it’s not just something that’s required of women. EVERY Christian, female or male, has the responsibility to submit to the Lord, and also to the authorities the Lord has placed in his or her life. What’s more, the biblical concepts of submission and authority cannot be disassociated. The two are indivisibly connected. A biblical definition of submission cannot be understood apart from a biblical definition of authority.
[h=4]Misconception #3: Submission is generic—every woman submits to every man.[/h]
The Bible instructs a wife to submit herself to her own husband; not to men in general.
[h=4]Misconception #4: Submission is a right—a husband has the right to demand his wife’s submission.[/h]
A husband does not have the right to demand or extract submission from his wife. Submission is HER choice—her responsibility… it is NOT his right!! Not ever. She is to “submit herself”— deciding when and how to submit is her call. In a Christian marriage, the focus is never on rights, but on personal responsibility. It’s his responsibility to be affectionate. It’s her responsibility to be agreeable. The husband’s responsibility is to sacrificially love as Christ loved the Church—not to make his wife submit.
[h=4]Misconception #5: Submission is indiscriminate—it means mindless acquiescence.[/h]
A Christian’s first responsibility is to submit to the Lord and His standard of righteousness. A wife is not called to submit to sin, mistreatment, or abuse. The Lord does not want “weak-willed” women—women who lack the discernment and strength to respond to the right things and in the right way. Godly women do not submit to sin. They carefully and intentionally weigh and discern how to submit to sinful human authority in light of their primary responsibility to submit to the ways of the Lord. No brain-dead doormats or spineless bowls of Jello here! Submission is neither mindless nor formulaic nor simplistic. Submitting to the Lord sometimes involves drawing clear boundaries and enacting consequences when a husband sins. Submission is an attitude of the heart. A woman can have a submissive spirit even when saying “no” and refusing to go along with sin.
[h=4]Misconception #6: Submission precludes mutuality—it creates lopsided, one-way relationships.[/h]
Submission and authority function hand-in-hand with all the other biblical directives about how Christians ought to interact with one another. Along with submitting to her husband, a Christian wife also has the responsibility to be transparent, speak truth, confront sin, and challenge her husband to ever increasing levels of holiness. As heirs together of the grace of life, both husband and wife have the responsibility to love, encourage, and build one another up; and to interact with forbearance, kindness and humility. Biblical authority and submission contribute to mutuality, and do not diminish or detract from it. (It’s “both-and” not “either-or.”)
[h=4]Misconception #7: Submission promotes abuse—it encourages husbands to be domineering, self-centered boors.[/h]
When properly understood and enacted, the framework of hierarchical relationships within the Christian community serves a protective function, because every authority is accountable to a higher authority. This community structure encourages husbands to fulfill their responsibility to love as Christ loves, and holds them to account when they don’t. It fosters Christlikeness and prevents abuse. A wife whose husband is abusive can appeal to higher authorities for intervention and protection. It is the responsibility of the authorities to protect and seek the good of all those under their care.
"Well you aren't Jesus, honey".
That is true. But in this marriage it goes 1.Jesus 2.Me 3.You. Go into your prayer closet and ask the Lord how he wants this marriage to go. Come back and let me know.
Its way easier if we are both submitting to Christ. Its much more difficult when we come out from under Him and attempt to argue our "rights".
Good one, ember...
That is true. But in this marriage it goes 1.Jesus 2.Me 3.You. Go into your prayer closet and ask the Lord how he wants this marriage to go. Come back and let me know.
Its way easier if we are both submitting to Christ. Its much more difficult when we come out from under Him and attempt to argue our "rights".
Good one, ember...
E
ummm...i am not sure I quite I understand yr post?
I get all things are perfect in a perfect world...shame about people ruining it (haha)
I found the article helpful and I totally get how 50% does not a marriage make
however, I am of the mind that marriage vows are broken by abuse...not just adultery
seen some really good cases discussed on other forums
I am not advocating disertion or divorce because someone got up in a frumpy mood...but chillesing away at the personality of another, or faking Christianity to marry someone, or continued mental and emotional abuse sounds like breaking the marriage vows to many people I am finding out
I get all things are perfect in a perfect world...shame about people ruining it (haha)
I found the article helpful and I totally get how 50% does not a marriage make
however, I am of the mind that marriage vows are broken by abuse...not just adultery
seen some really good cases discussed on other forums
I am not advocating disertion or divorce because someone got up in a frumpy mood...but chillesing away at the personality of another, or faking Christianity to marry someone, or continued mental and emotional abuse sounds like breaking the marriage vows to many people I am finding out
Ive bn searching on submission and found ths thread informative as well as with lots of biblical encouragement. I also realize much of my own hurts came abt bec. I was nt submitting rightfully to hußband. Its really a prayer sitation for me, needing change in many ways. Words dont come easy at all, but i know there is- there ws room for confession long before. May God still hear and grant mercy to restore, do the good work He started.
