SUFFERING AS YOUR ACT OF WORSHIP

[tourist]

It's time to stop all the "I'm right and you are wrong" garbage and return to letting the scripture speak for itself. We will all gain a much better understanding of what God has for us in his word.

I would rather be happy than having to constantly prove that I am right and they are wrong and always get in the last word.

 

[Meggido]

Hebrews 5.7-10

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 12.1-2
Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It would seem the usual WOF suspects would have others believe that since Jesus accomplished all the suffering, pain, trauma, refinements, testing, trials, huts, offenses that you will not have to....At first glance, this seems like a Biblical truth, but on closer examination one can and will find that Jesus is our example for how to work it out down here, just like he had to.

The easy believing grace and WOF movements would have you believe that since Jesus did everything, now you do not have to....they do not see his redemptive purpose as an example, but the cure-all, along with communion and tongues , which now is the fountain of youth[Quoted by Joe Prince in his new book, praying in tongues]

Hebrews 11 demonstrates what real faith is and not the WOF cotton candy feel good lie and spoiled brat syndrome they create....Hebrews 11 main thought continues in Hebrews 12.....which admonishes us to look at Jesus and his suffering as a model and example to us, that we to will overcome....not by naming and claiming, and ignoring physical symptoms, but by resting in him to get us through the trial....Jesus is the way, because he knew the way....

Friend, you have a part play in your walk with God....Jesus paid the price alone, we do not add anything to his work of redemption and in doing so he became your example for how to overcome...To do nothing after receiving the free gift is simply burying the talent until he comes back......

 

[Grace777x70]

The problem with the BDF is the selection of a string of unrelated verses, from different places in the Bible, taken out of context and using them to support one's own interpretation of God's word. The key to understanding a verse in scripture is always the context of the verse.

Look at the Galatians 5: 15-20 in context. What does it say?

Keep in Step with the Spirit

Galatians 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Everything in between describes "keeping in step with the spirit".

It's time to stop all the "I'm right and you are wrong" garbage and return to letting the scripture speak for itself. We will all gain a much better understanding of what God has for us in his word.

Well said.

People should be able to post their beliefs with scripture and leave it at that without being personally attacked because someone has a different view on the non-essentials.

The essentials being that we are saved by the blood and death of the Lord Jesus Christ and now by His life which is all by grace through faith. The fact that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh is an essential too.

Just as the scripture says that you quoted above in Ga. 5

15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

I also see Hebrews 12:15 as fitting for all of us as well.

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

 

[Billyd]

1 Corinthians 5:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.


3034. [FONT=&quot]λοίδορος[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]loidoros[/FONT] noun - ( those that revile or slander others)

An abusive person, reviler, slanderer.


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.



Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

1 Corinthians 5:8-11 in context

Sexual Immorality Defiles the Church

5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. (you) "Purge the evil person from among you."

Hebrews 12:15 In context.

Do Not Grow Weary

3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." 7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. 12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. 14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; 16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.

If we add the the introductory verses 1 and 2, "1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." there is no doubt that the writer of Hebrews is telling us by whose authority and what we are to do in our life for Jesus.

When we take a scripture in context, what does it actually tell us?

 

[Billyd]

I would rather be happy than having to constantly prove that I am right and they are wrong and always get in the last word.

For those of us usually on the sidelines, the discussions often get quite funny.

I'll always give you the last word if is "I am saved by Grace through my Faith in Christ"

 

[tourist]

For those of us usually on the sidelines, the discussions often get quite funny.

I'll always give you the last word if is "I am saved by Grace through my Faith in Christ"

That says it all.

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Corinthians 5:8-11 in context

Sexual Immorality Defiles the Church

5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. (you) "Purge the evil person from among you."

Hebrews 12:15 In context.

Do Not Grow Weary

3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." 7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. 12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. 14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; 16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.

If we add the the introductory verses 1 and 2, "1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." there is no doubt that the writer of Hebrews is telling us by whose authority and what we are to do in our life for Jesus.

When we take a scripture in context, what does it actually tell us?

I believe it tells us in Corinthians that those in authority in the local church need to deal with those that deal in malice and wickedness in all it's forms to protect the church.

As to Hebrews 12:14-15 - I view it like this concerning "without holiness no one shall see the Lord". ( as the KJV puts it )

This is talking about the body of Christ and we interacting with each other.

Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,

[SUP]13 [/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

[SUP]15[/SUP]See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble.

Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )

That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.


Hebrews 12:15 -Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.

Then we have a Gal. 5 situation occur which is why it is important to learn how to walk by the spirit.

Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

 

[Stephen63]

1 Corinthians 5:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.


3034. [FONT=&quot]λοίδορος[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]loidoros[/FONT] noun - ( those that revile or slander others)

An abusive person, reviler, slanderer.


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.



Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

Why do you keep writing this?

Hardly no one here associates with you.

 

[Stephen63]

The problem with the BDF is the selection of a string of unrelated verses, from different places in the Bible, taken out of context and using them to support one's own interpretation of God's word. The key to understanding a verse in scripture is always the context of the verse.

Look at the Galatians 5: 15-20 in context. What does it say?

Keep in Step with the Spirit

Galatians 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Everything in between describes "keeping in step with the spirit".

It's time to stop all the "I'm right and you are wrong" garbage and return to letting the scripture speak for itself. We will all gain a much better understanding of what God has for us in his word.

I see only G777 put his "like" on your post.

If the real garbage was put out, this other garbage wouldn't be here.

 

[Blain]

Amen. Well put!

There is also a type of suffering in the body that is caused by a diseased state called "Auto-mmune" where the body starts to tear at itself thinking that it is attacking a disease but it attacks healthy cells.

"An autoimmune disease develops when your immune system, which defends your body against disease, decides your healthy cells are foreign. As a result, your immune system attacks healthy cells."


Much like we can in the body of Christ too if we are not watchful. It is the flesh "acting up".

Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Then Paul goes on in verse 19-20 to describe what the works of the flesh and "things like these " are in manifestation.

hey that is good very well put indeed

 

[sevenseas]

Hebrews 5.7-10

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 12.1-2
Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It would seem the usual WOF suspects would have others believe that since Jesus accomplished all the suffering, pain, trauma, refinements, testing, trials, huts, offenses that you will not have to....At first glance, this seems like a Biblical truth, but on closer examination one can and will find that Jesus is our example for how to work it out down here, just like he had to.

The easy believing grace and WOF movements would have you believe that since Jesus did everything, now you do not have to....they do not see his redemptive purpose as an example, but the cure-all, along with communion and tongues , which now is the fountain of youth[Quoted by Joe Prince in his new book, praying in tongues]

Hebrews 11 demonstrates what real faith is and not the WOF cotton candy feel good lie and spoiled brat syndrome they create....Hebrews 11 main thought continues in Hebrews 12.....which admonishes us to look at Jesus and his suffering as a model and example to us, that we to will overcome....not by naming and claiming, and ignoring physical symptoms, but by resting in him to get us through the trial....Jesus is the way, because he knew the way....

Friend, you have a part play in your walk with God....Jesus paid the price alone, we do not add anything to his work of redemption and in doing so he became your example for how to overcome...To do nothing after receiving the free gift is simply burying the talent until he comes back......

I know you do not believe that works save and neither do I

however, some have crossed the line and do not understand what that actually means

as I will continue to say, we have to take the ENTIRE Bible and weigh what the ENTIRE Bible states and not find our favorite topics, study them, and present a doctrine that emphasizes what sounds pretty to us while ignoring the harder parts that are there for our own good and say they are all a part of the old covenant

this nonsense, is nothing but the old 'HAS GOD REALLY SAID'?

some people do not recognize that voice because they are in agreement with it

this is not malice and it will not matter how many times G7 says that it is

he simply cannot take correction, no matter how 'nice' it is presented, no matter how much you actually present scripture verbatim that denies his hyper charismatic nar/wof beliefs, he will twist it and say it is slander

that's really getting old. really getting old.

I don't think he knows what the word actually means or possibly he just came across it and likes to use it

in any case, it's nonsense and typical of those who deny they have ANY responsibility in their walk with God

so tiresome!

 

[Grace777x70]

hey that is good very well put indeed

We can learn much by how our natural bodies work and see how the body of Christ also works or should work together.

If we bite and devour one another in the body of Christ then we are doing the same thing that an auto-immune disease does to our natural bodies. We are attacking each other and thus creating destruction.

We can also see that all parts do not have the same function but yet each one is part of the whole. I have a medical background so this type of stuff appeals to me.

I found it interesting that there are some cells that seem to be completely dormant and have no function but we have found out that they are "activated" during special times. We can extrapolate from this many things when considering what role we play in the body of Christ.

We get to participate with God in what He ahs for us. It's exciting. The real Christina life is an endless adventure in knowing Him and His love and grace for us in all situations.

For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13

We can rest in the fact that the Lord is working in us both to give us His desires and the capability to do what is required of us if we are a healthy "cell."

 

[oldethennew]

I would rather be happy than having to constantly prove that I am right and they are wrong and always get in the last word.

============================================

you say this beautiful, moral, statement, Tourist, and you seem to LIVE-IT -
it's very noticeable that most of the ones who usually give you a 'like' are the very ones
who are desperately trying with all of their hearts, trying to 'prove & have the 'last-word'?...
totally unscriptural, yet it's like they are 'caught in the spider's web', but cannot see it, or,
really just 'don't care'?

let us all continue to pray...

 

[Angela53510]

1 Corinthians 5:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.


3034. λοίδορος loidoros noun - ( those that revile or slander others)

An abusive person, reviler, slanderer.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

In context:

"Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” 1 Cor. 5:6-12

This passage is clearly about getting rid of sexually immoral people, as well as greedy, swindlers, drunkards and idolators. And then, the solution for these people is to "PURGE them from among you!"

In other words, people who worship a person, an internet idol, perhaps, or celebrate Passover, instead of Christ (vs. 6-8) and have not turned from the wickedness of the former lifestyles, needed to be cast out of the congregation.

Certainly the passage has NOTHING to do with pointing accusing fingers at people who disagree with the evils of the Word Faith movement, and the harm it has wrought and continues to do. Further, the malice is about a man who was specifically sleeping with his father's wife, and that is the specific sexual immorality, if you look back to verses 1-4. (This man did repent according to 2 Cor. 2:6)

"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord" 1 Cor. 5:1-4

Leaven is a specific reference to the Passover, and getting rid of it. Further, Jesus says we are to clean out the leaven.

"And He was giving orders to them, saying, "Watch out! Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod." Mark 8:15

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough." Gal 5:9

So, indeed, Galatians is also talking about leaven, which is a "type" of sin, in the OT, and carried over as a metaphor for sin in the NT. Please note again, that sexual immorality is the lead sin in this sin list, and is obviously a major concern for Paul in the churches he is discipling.

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who dosuch things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal. 5:18-21

Certainly, the Jews understood this, when Jesus spoke of it. And Paul explains what leaven, or the sin of sexual immortality can do to a congregation, if left unchecked. (Among other sins!)

I'm just failing to see where Paul is talking about malice having anything to do with people posting scriptures which stand firmly against the lies and eisegesis of Word Faith. Or, that Paul used it as a subtle way to condemn those who didn't agree with him. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over!

Amazing how someone can totally rip these verses out of context to set himself up as a self righteous prophet. Certainly, this passage of correction to the Corinthian church had nothing to do with a righteous individual being condemned, but rather the absolute opposite.

And again, the man repented and accepted correction, which this individual refuses to do, despite post after post showing him that he has once again committed serious eisegesis, and has twisted the Bible into his own image and doctrine, a totally false one!

I would suggest anyone doubting my words get out a Bible and read 1 Cor. and then 2 Cor. You will certainly get a picture of church discipline against an immoral sinner resulting in repentance and restoration.

We won't even get into the random throwing out of Greek words, when this person barely understands Greek. Because, you still need to read Greek in context. Single word studies are virtually useless! λοίδορος indeed!

 

[Locutus]

"[FONT=&quot]λοίδορος " --- [/FONT]

 

[joaniemarie]

Since I'm not much on Greek or Latin but have also been accused of the exact same things Bruce is being skewered for and by the same person and persons, I must come to his defense. Those of us who believe in the healing power of Jesus Christ in our lives know the drill here. But MAN you guys who try to discredit Bruce never tire of this particular past time here! I don't understand why a Christian man like Bruce should be so attacked on a regular basis.

It happens just about every few weeks the same people get on a tangent and begin taking Bruce apart piece by piece. You don't even know the guy personally! My only guess is because he disagrees with the status quo and does it so well. He has a fine appreciation and respect and defense of the Word of God and posts many verses and many Biblical sources. Yet the character assassination persists by the same people. I believe the green monsters are here and don't like Bruce.

We Christian people here are free to agree or disagree and we do it all the time here on CC. But those on CC who make a habit of trying to discredit another Christian just because they don't see eye to eye on healing for instance have problems bigger than if they are healed or not.

I've observed Bruce can post on these forums Bible verse for Bible verse each and every time someone comes against the truth. And also when Christians disagree with him and say the Bible is not saying what he believes. He knows the Bible well uses it skillfully and honorably at all times. And Bruce is a brother for sure. He doesn't discredit others for disagreeing with him. I find no fault in him on these forums and the things said against him are false accusations coming more from personality issues more than any Biblical ones from those who appose him.

He always gives the Bible verses and the reasons he believes the way he does. Bruce takes the time and makes the effort to post verses and resources. I've never seen a time here on these forums where Bruce has not answered a fellow believer or non believer for that matter when asked a question.

What a horrible shame that he has to be attacked for doing what a Christian always should do and rarely does do. I've no doubt he will have a good and complete Scriptural answer for Angela in the morning. He always does. AND is never lethal about his answers either.

I have no kind words to say to those who try to smear a brothers reputation with false accusations and hearsay. Bruce is much more gracious than I am the way he takes the time to answer everyone like he does. He shows love to the brethren much better than most here. You don't have to know Greek or Latin to recognize Christ's love. Keep up the good work of contending for the faith Bruce. I'm just one of the many people here who love and appreciate you. God bless!!!

 

[Stephen63]

Since I'm not much on Greek or Latin but have also been accused of the exact same things Bruce is being skewered for and by the same person and persons, I must come to his defense. Those of us who believe in the healing power of Jesus Christ in our lives know the drill here. But MAN you guys who try to discredit Bruce never tire of this particular past time here! I don't understand why a Christian man like Bruce should be so attacked on a regular basis.

It happens just about every few weeks the same people get on a tangent and begin taking Bruce apart piece by piece. You don't even know the guy personally! My only guess is because he disagrees with the status quo and does it so well. He has a fine appreciation and respect and defense of the Word of God and posts many verses and many Biblical sources. Yet the character assassination persists by the same people. I believe the green monsters are here and don't like Bruce.

We Christian people here are free to agree or disagree and we do it all the time here on CC. But those on CC who make a habit of trying to discredit another Christian just because they don't see eye to eye on healing for instance have problems bigger than if they are healed or not.

I've observed Bruce can post on these forums Bible verse for Bible verse each and every time someone comes against the truth. And also when Christians disagree with him and say the Bible is not saying what he believes. He knows the Bible well uses it skillfully and honorably at all times. And Bruce is a brother for sure. He doesn't discredit others for disagreeing with him. I find no fault in him on these forums and the things said against him are false accusations coming more from personality issues more than any Biblical ones from those who appose him.

He always gives the Bible verses and the reasons he believes the way he does. Bruce takes the time and makes the effort to post verses and resources. I've never seen a time here on these forums where Bruce has not answered a fellow believer or non believer for that matter when asked a question.

What a horrible shame that he has to be attacked for doing what a Christian always should do and rarely does do. I've no doubt he will have a good and complete Scriptural answer for Angela in the morning. He always does. AND is never lethal about his answers either.

I have no kind words to say to those who try to smear a brothers reputation with false accusations and hearsay. Bruce is much more gracious than I am the way he takes the time to answer everyone like he does. He shows love to the brethren much better than most here. You don't have to know Greek or Latin to recognize Christ's love. Keep up the good work of contending for the faith Bruce. I'm just one of the many people here who love and appreciate you. God bless!!!

Awww, that would sound almost believable if G777 hadn't been starting threads & talking about hypergrace since the first week he showed up on CC!

With all of your devotionals from Joseph Prince, it's obvious you're one of his disciples as well.

 

[Grace777x70]

Since I'm not much on Greek or Latin but have also been accused of the exact same things Bruce is being skewered for and by the same person and persons, I must come to his defense. Those of us who believe in the healing power of Jesus Christ in our lives know the drill here. But MAN you guys who try to discredit Bruce never tire of this particular past time here! I don't understand why a Christian man like Bruce should be so attacked on a regular basis.

It happens just about every few weeks the same people get on a tangent and begin taking Bruce apart piece by piece. You don't even know the guy personally! My only guess is because he disagrees with the status quo and does it so well. He has a fine appreciation and respect and defense of the Word of God and posts many verses and many Biblical sources. Yet the character assassination persists by the same people. I believe the green monsters are here and don't like Bruce.

We Christian people here are free to agree or disagree and we do it all the time here on CC. But those on CC who make a habit of trying to discredit another Christian just because they don't see eye to eye on healing for instance have problems bigger than if they are healed or not.

I've observed Bruce can post on these forums Bible verse for Bible verse each and every time someone comes against the truth. And also when Christians disagree with him and say the Bible is not saying what he believes. He knows the Bible well uses it skillfully and honorably at all times. And Bruce is a brother for sure. He doesn't discredit others for disagreeing with him. I find no fault in him on these forums and the things said against him are false accusations coming more from personality issues more than any Biblical ones from those who appose him.

He always gives the Bible verses and the reasons he believes the way he does. Bruce takes the time and makes the effort to post verses and resources. I've never seen a time here on these forums where Bruce has not answered a fellow believer or non believer for that matter when asked a question.

What a horrible shame that he has to be attacked for doing what a Christian always should do and rarely does do. I've no doubt he will have a good and complete Scriptural answer for Angela in the morning. He always does. AND is never lethal about his answers either.

I have no kind words to say to those who try to smear a brothers reputation with false accusations and hearsay. Bruce is much more gracious than I am the way he takes the time to answer everyone like he does. He shows love to the brethren much better than most here. You don't have to know Greek or Latin to recognize Christ's love. Keep up the good work of contending for the faith Bruce. I'm just one of the many people here who love and appreciate you. God bless!!!

Thank you for those kind words. There is a way to discuss things without being condescending and attacking the person personally. It is called slander and it is no different then living a homosexual lifestyle. They are all in the same lists as works of the flesh.

I am not going to interact with any so-called brethren that continually behave with such foul behavior just like Paul says to do in 1 Cor. 5:11 and in Romans 16:17

From now on - I will just let them slander at will and exhibit all the malice they desire and just bless them in the name of the Lord and pray for them.

And it's good practice for when persecution comes from the world - we'll be ready and have our "forgiver" well oiled in order to show others the love and grace that our Lord and Father have for them no matter what they do to us.

I know this type of behavior is bringing destruction and sickness of some sort as it does to all of us and I want them to be well - because we need them in the body of Christ. I forgive them and walk free and I rejoice in my spirit as I see them free and walking with the Lord full of joy and life.

I do enjoy discussing things with people that do have good behavior and are not condescending or slanderous because someone else has a different view on a subject. It's ok to agree to dis-agree. It's healthy!

Bless you joaniemarie!

 

[followjesus]

Awww, that would sound almost believable if G777 hadn't been starting threads & talking about hypergrace since the first week he showed up on CC!

With all of your devotionals from Joseph Prince, it's obvious you're one of his disciples as well.

the strategy of the serpent [video=youtube;iNzmBDzw3XY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNzmBDzw3XY[/video]


if only satan appeared as satan

 

[Denadii]

So why do people here attack and berate those who speak the Word?
[h=1]1 Corinthians 1:18-19 (CJB)[/h] [SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message about the execution-stake is nonsense to those in the process of being destroyed, but to us in the process of being saved it is the power of God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Indeed, the Tanakh says,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
and frustrate the intelligence of the intelligent.”

[h=1]Isaiah 5:21 (CJB)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Woe to those seeing themselves as wise,
esteeming themselves as clever.

There are many people who call themselves Christian but know nothing of Jesus. They know about Him, but do not know Him. They need prayer.