Suffering

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#1
1 Peter 3:17 Esv
17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

I have heard God's sovereignty or God's will categorized as His perfect and permissive will. Usually in the context of suffering people want to believe a good God would never will that we suffer from evil, disease, or hardship. This diminishes the sovereignty of God. God's will works even within the choices of men and the fallen nature of the world.

God never commanded Moses to kill the Egyptian which led to his exile. But God moved in it to bring the release of His people.

God's will is always perfect while some may ask how is the cancer of a child or the murder of a loved one within the loving perfect will of God? I will ask a question to the reader. Could God prevent it or reverse it if He wanted to? Of course. God can bend the laws of nature or provide a supernatural response to heal or even turn the tide of death. It wasn't God in the disease or the evil act but God allows it. Why?

1. to allow free will
2. Foreknowledge
3. God's ultimate will is salvation

If God was to intervene in everything then we wouldn't have free will we would be robots or slaves. Only in freedom can true love exist. The choice to love or hate God. This gives way for evil to occur. It is the by-product to allow free will. But it also makes us all accountable for our actions. Just because God allows it, doesn’t mean the wicked will escape judgment.

God is eternal and outside of time. He was before the beginning of time and already knows the end. C. S. Lewis described it this way,

“Almost certainly God is not in time. His life does not consist of moments one following another...Ten-thirty-- and every other moment from the beginning of the world--is always Present for Him. If you like to put it this way, He has all eternity in which to listen to the split second of prayer put up by a pilot as his plane crashes in flames.”
—C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

Working in the choices of mankind, within the natural fallen state of the world, God has foreseen those events as if they are now. He may allow things we see as unjust but His knowledge of why may have future or eternal ramifications.

God’s ultimate will for everyone is salvation. For a child who is dying in the womb, God may not intervene as every child is before the age of knowing right from wrong. They will see salvation as God doesn’t hold one to account where the law (moral or written) is understood or known.

Romans 5:13 NIV
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Jesus also says the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to the children. Matthew 19:14.

A Christian who is sick from cancer. Why doesn’t God heal? For the Christian, your will on Earth is God’s will for the Gospel to be spread. But ultimately, your home is with God. Paul lived his life as,

Philippians 1:23-24 NIV
23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

For the unbeliever, God is patient in judgment giving time for them to repent and be saved but ultimately God may not intervene as an act of judgment on sin. The opposite of salvation is an eternal judgment in which everyone without Christ is responsible for the time and knowledge they have received on Earth.

God allows suffering or in judgment, even the innocent may be swept along with it (think of Daniel in exile).

God told David after his adultery and murder of Bathsheba's husband that David’s unborn child would die in the womb. David cried out, mourned, and pleaded to God but the child still died. David knew he would see the child again in Heaven.

God told King Hezekiah that he will die from his sickness. But Hezekiah immediately turned to prayer for healing and God heard his prayer and suspended his life for a few more years.

God told Ananias that Paul was a chosen instrument to proclaim His name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. God said that He would show him how much he must suffer for the name of God.

Paul was also given a thorn in the flesh which God allowed through a messenger of Satan which some suggest wasn’t a physical infirmity. I disagree as something in the flesh had to be physical. Paul prayed three times for God to remove the thorn. God told him no. God told Him that His grace is sufficient for you, for His power is made perfect in weakness.

Jesus, Himself accepted the will of God to suffer and die on the cross.

Not every problem is due to sin, fallen nature, or evil. Sometimes God allows something to bring about His glory.

John 9:2-3 Esv
2 And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

I say all this to bring context and harmony to the verses that speak on healing, suffering, and the will of God. Some focus only on healing or prosperity but that isn’t the full picture.

We are told we will suffer for Christ.

Philippians 1:29 ESV
For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ, you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

You may say well that isn’t God’s will but God telling us what will occur due to the forces of evil.

This is true but do not forget who God is. God could send a Legion of angels to stop it. He could cast down fire and hail to destroy the forces of evil. He could intervene and heal cancer. But so often He chooses to work in the midst of it to bring about Kingdom good. A good that only comforts the heart if we are aligned with His will. A Christian who is imprisoned and tortured in China may be how God reaches the prison guards or other prisoners.

His ways are higher than our understanding and we may not know why God allows some things to occur but it will all make sense in Heaven. The wicked will be eternally judged and the righteous will live in eternal peace. Everything the righteous will suffer is momentary in comparison to the eternal.

2 Corinthians 4:17 ESV
For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,

Have faith knowing that God is in control. That there is a plan in motion. Your suffering is not without reason. And all things will be made right on the day of the Lord.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#2
We need to remember that these hardships are very, very temporary. We learn and grow in ways that we could not without them. Our rest is ahead of us. That is a promise that gives hope and joy when we believe and meditate upon it.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,748
3,558
113
#3
Suffering for Christ is VERY GOOD for us! Carry on! :love:(y)

Martyrs are selected by God….not everyone gets a Martyr’s Crown… only God gives those out… and in His Kingdom that is coming… the one who wears it is highly honored as loyal and faithful with perfect love because they were not afraid….death had no hold on them.

No greater love than laying down your life for Christ!
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#4
Suffering for Christ is VERY GOOD for us! Carry on! :love:(y)

Martyrs are selected by God….not everyone gets a Martyr’s Crown… only God gives those out… and in His Kingdom that is coming… the one who wears it is highly honored as loyal and faithful with perfect love because they were not afraid….death had no hold on them.

No greater love than laying down your life for Christ!
Yes indeed! I just hope the churches in places like America see this reality. The church I left spoke of healing like it was a promise of God and that God wants everyone to be healed. I spoke to the pastor privately about my view of suffering compared to his. He gave me more assumptions than scripture for instance about Davids child. He wouldn't admit that God had the child to die. He instead said we don't know maybe David opened the door to a demonic death spirit that God due to sin would not intervene. Poor guy. I heard more talk about healing, doors opening, new jobs, new cars, etc but he completely denied that suffering could be God's will. I did finally get him to at least say well it isn't His perfect will.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#5
We need to remember that these hardships are very, very temporary. We learn and grow in ways that we could not without them. Our rest is ahead of us. That is a promise that gives hope and joy when we believe and meditate upon it.
Amen! That brings so much comfort just thinking on such peace. No more pain, tears, fears, survival, and dealing with evil.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,260
6,546
113
#6
Amen! That brings so much comfort just thinking on such peace. No more pain, tears, fears, survival, and dealing with evil.
When passing through any time of abject pain, most turn to the Father asking for relief, at least I usually do.
But then we think of Jesus Yeshua and His incredible, not-to-be matched suffering, and we know to be thankful fully to Him for our each's rescue, salvation redemption from what we endure here. It truly brings us closer to Him and further out of this world even though we are in it.
Still in my prayers. Blessings in Jesus Yeshua always....jj
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,641
13,044
113
#7
Our rest is ahead of us
Don't forget that the Bible says that if we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with Him. And that will not be rest by any means. Trials, tribulations, afflictions, and persecutions are promised to all believers in one degree or another. At the same time they are all temptations. But we are reminded to remember the patience of Job (Jas 5:11). Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. (Jas 1:12).
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,398
5,508
113
62
#8
1 Peter 3:17 Esv
17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

I have heard God's sovereignty or God's will categorized as His perfect and permissive will. Usually in the context of suffering people want to believe a good God would never will that we suffer from evil, disease, or hardship. This diminishes the sovereignty of God. God's will works even within the choices of men and the fallen nature of the world.

God never commanded Moses to kill the Egyptian which led to his exile. But God moved in it to bring the release of His people.

God's will is always perfect while some may ask how is the cancer of a child or the murder of a loved one within the loving perfect will of God? I will ask a question to the reader. Could God prevent it or reverse it if He wanted to? Of course. God can bend the laws of nature or provide a supernatural response to heal or even turn the tide of death. It wasn't God in the disease or the evil act but God allows it. Why?

1. to allow free will
2. Foreknowledge
3. God's ultimate will is salvation

If God was to intervene in everything then we wouldn't have free will we would be robots or slaves. Only in freedom can true love exist. The choice to love or hate God. This gives way for evil to occur. It is the by-product to allow free will. But it also makes us all accountable for our actions. Just because God allows it, doesn’t mean the wicked will escape judgment.

God is eternal and outside of time. He was before the beginning of time and already knows the end. C. S. Lewis described it this way,

“Almost certainly God is not in time. His life does not consist of moments one following another...Ten-thirty-- and every other moment from the beginning of the world--is always Present for Him. If you like to put it this way, He has all eternity in which to listen to the split second of prayer put up by a pilot as his plane crashes in flames.”
—C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

Working in the choices of mankind, within the natural fallen state of the world, God has foreseen those events as if they are now. He may allow things we see as unjust but His knowledge of why may have future or eternal ramifications.

God’s ultimate will for everyone is salvation. For a child who is dying in the womb, God may not intervene as every child is before the age of knowing right from wrong. They will see salvation as God doesn’t hold one to account where the law (moral or written) is understood or known.

Romans 5:13 NIV
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Jesus also says the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to the children. Matthew 19:14.

A Christian who is sick from cancer. Why doesn’t God heal? For the Christian, your will on Earth is God’s will for the Gospel to be spread. But ultimately, your home is with God. Paul lived his life as,

Philippians 1:23-24 NIV
23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

For the unbeliever, God is patient in judgment giving time for them to repent and be saved but ultimately God may not intervene as an act of judgment on sin. The opposite of salvation is an eternal judgment in which everyone without Christ is responsible for the time and knowledge they have received on Earth.

God allows suffering or in judgment, even the innocent may be swept along with it (think of Daniel in exile).

God told David after his adultery and murder of Bathsheba's husband that David’s unborn child would die in the womb. David cried out, mourned, and pleaded to God but the child still died. David knew he would see the child again in Heaven.

God told King Hezekiah that he will die from his sickness. But Hezekiah immediately turned to prayer for healing and God heard his prayer and suspended his life for a few more years.

God told Ananias that Paul was a chosen instrument to proclaim His name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. God said that He would show him how much he must suffer for the name of God.

Paul was also given a thorn in the flesh which God allowed through a messenger of Satan which some suggest wasn’t a physical infirmity. I disagree as something in the flesh had to be physical. Paul prayed three times for God to remove the thorn. God told him no. God told Him that His grace is sufficient for you, for His power is made perfect in weakness.

Jesus, Himself accepted the will of God to suffer and die on the cross.

Not every problem is due to sin, fallen nature, or evil. Sometimes God allows something to bring about His glory.

John 9:2-3 Esv
2 And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

I say all this to bring context and harmony to the verses that speak on healing, suffering, and the will of God. Some focus only on healing or prosperity but that isn’t the full picture.

We are told we will suffer for Christ.

Philippians 1:29 ESV
For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ, you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

You may say well that isn’t God’s will but God telling us what will occur due to the forces of evil.

This is true but do not forget who God is. God could send a Legion of angels to stop it. He could cast down fire and hail to destroy the forces of evil. He could intervene and heal cancer. But so often He chooses to work in the midst of it to bring about Kingdom good. A good that only comforts the heart if we are aligned with His will. A Christian who is imprisoned and tortured in China may be how God reaches the prison guards or other prisoners.

His ways are higher than our understanding and we may not know why God allows some things to occur but it will all make sense in Heaven. The wicked will be eternally judged and the righteous will live in eternal peace. Everything the righteous will suffer is momentary in comparison to the eternal.

2 Corinthians 4:17 ESV
For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,

Have faith knowing that God is in control. That there is a plan in motion. Your suffering is not without reason. And all things will be made right on the day of the Lord.
The subject of suffering is, in my experience, the most difficult for most to come to grips with. This is in no small part due to the fact that we know that God is both good and omnipotent. And we reason that a benevolent and all-powerful Being must, of necessity, eleviate all negative contingencies in order to remain both good and omnipotent.
Many here have already offered verses that share an alternate understanding. It is always good to see things from God's perspective. A verse that I haven't yet seen is 2 Corinthians 4:17...

For our light affliction, which is for but a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory...

Until we change our thinking, we will never see the joy set before us.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#9
we reason that a benevolent and all-powerful Being must, of necessity, eleviate all negative contingencies in order to remain both good and omnipotent.
We must also reason that He will execute just judgement upon the enemy.
Romans 12:19
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,398
5,508
113
62
#10
We must also reason that He will execute just judgement upon the enemy.
Romans 12:19
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
That's a whole new can of worms. You sure you are up to it given your earlier reaction to onions?