Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

[Roughsoul1991]

I strongly believe a 3rd temple will be built, with renewed animal sacrifice as Isaiah 66:1-4 suggest's, as you seem to promote the idea?

Because this will be the very place the Man if Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist, will be revealed

With Zionist teachings that many promote, paving the way for this false walk on christ

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Many falsely teach Jesus Christ will return to earth, taking a literal throne of David in Jerusalem, to start a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present?

This figure will be the Man Of Sin, The False Christ, The Antichrist, "Beware"!

Jesus Christ Wont Be Found Any Place Upon This Earth, And He Warned His Followers Of The End Time Deception

"Believe it Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The Future Antichrist And False Prophet

Revelation 13:11-13KJV
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Just stop. The book of Revelation doesn't end at chapter 19. Christ's reign will involve the rebuilt temple. You are referring to the anti- Christ for sure but after he comes and betrays the Jews, then Christ will come and imprison the forces of evil for 1000 years. It is clear as day as you read after chapter 19. Ezekiel 40 describes a temple with the actual Jewish lineage who takes care of the temple. Another difference between gentile and Jew.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Briefly,
Every type of antichrist (The seed of serpent) -in prophecy is a foreign oppressor.
Pharaoh, Hiram,-The King of Tyre, Sennacharib, Nebuchadnezzar, Gog, Daniel's little Horn. The Beast out of the sea.

I believe he will be a gentile invader. It looks (in prophecy) like a foreign military invasion from the north.
The Israeli nation might make some sort of land/peace agreement with him as they did with Arafat.
But he will break it, as Arafat did.
An antichrist religion already sits on top of the temple mount. Literally denying Christ in writing. The Jews don't want it.

The region of Gog has been posturing & becoming braver this decade. They want Jerusalem. We could be a generation away yet
but everything seems to lining up geopolitically with the Biblical narrative. The countries named in judgement are all puffed up.

As you know, there is in the Revelation prophecy, a false prophet figure who endorses the anti-christ.
I suppose it's possible for him to be ethnically Jewish but I don't think the invader of the land himself will be Jewish.

I Agree. The man who makes this covenant with them is the future prince of Rome as seen in Dan 9.

 

[Truth7t7]

I never said they were living in peace now did I? They wont have peace unless they are doing what God asked.

It would do you will to study leviticus 26. what is happening to Israel today is exactly what God said would happen. His promises and his word never fails

Of course you made the claim that Israel is living in peace, who you kidding

Quote below eternally-grateful, post #651

Quote: "The church is not in the land of Israel living in peace because they obey Gods commands because the promise was not given to them."

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Jews based upon heritage and race are no more chosen than Arabs, Africans, or Americans

God has no respect for Persons

I see the false cry's of Antisemetism have started, for anybody who disagrees with your Zionist claims

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

Jesus didn't come through the Arabs, Africans, Americans, Chinese, etc. He came through the Jews. God chose the Jews for the lineage of Jesus.

Of course, we all were chosen for salvation as to why Jesus came. God wishes none to perish. But salvation is different than prophecy. Specific prophecy is only directed at Israel.

 

[OldSage]

I suppose Antiochus Epiphanes, the little horn, is the nearest match for the Antichrist,
as the little horn recurs in regard to him. Is this the reason you are picking the North?

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus didn't come through the Arabs, Africans, Americans, Chinese, etc. He came through the Jews. God chose the Jews for the lineage of Jesus.

Of course, we all were chosen for salvation as to why Jesus came. God wishes none to perish. But salvation is different than prophecy. Specific prophecy is only directed at Israel.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the promises and covenant made to Abraham, the Church is the Israel if God, children if the promised seed, it's that simple

The promises made to Abraham have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, read it again and again

Jesus Christ is the promised seed, and his children are the Church

Galatians 3:16-29KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Two Israel's Are Seen Below)

(1) Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

(2) National Ethnic Israel

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

They which are the children of the flesh (Jews) these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all (1)Israel, which are of (2)Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes

The Lord Jesus will destroy the Antichrist at his return, and the heavens and earth will be dissolved by his fire also.

Something you refuse to accept that is clearly shown below, you act as if the Lords fire in scripture presented below is non-existent, while you promote a Zionist Millennial Kingdom on this earth, that will never take place.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

What is this? Is this suppose to be an order of events or random choice to fit your belief? So many gaps.

 

[Truth7t7]

What is this? Is this suppose to be an order of events or random choice to fit your belief? So many gaps.

No gaps whatsoever as you claim

The scripture is "Very Clear", Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by his fire, it's that simple, I'f you dont have a Millenial Kingdom on this earth to falsely protect, that will never take place

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[CS1]

I suppose if we understand that the nations have now become Israel

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body,

Then the Tribal members likewise are polyglot - from the world.
I guess Dan who dwells at sea is not considered land-based, not of the nations.

I don't know, just throwing it out there

we can't allegorize the word of God.

 

[OldSage]

we can't allegorize the word of God.

What do you think parables are if not allegories?

 

[Truth7t7]

I suppose Antiochus Epiphanes, the little horn, is the nearest match for the Antichrist,
as the little horn recurs in regard to him. Is this the reason you are picking the North?

Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC didn't fulfill the Little Horn/Antichrist of Daniel as you suggest

This "Future" human man will be destroyed at the second coming, and his human body given to the burning flame in the Lake of Fire at the final judgement, a future event unfulfilled.

Daniel 7:9-11KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

we can't allegorize the word of God.

Is Jesus really a Lamb or Door, or is this symbolic allegory?

The Church is the Israel of God, the twelve tribes scattered abroad

James 1:1KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[surfer14]

Dude please back off, You rmaking yourself look bad because you are so desperate to prove yourself right you can not understand what anyone is saying. This is the reason I do not respond to your nonsense. It wreaks of desperation

I am grateful for @Truth7t7 kinda giving another view on things. I don't always agree with him. But I like how he's got an opinion and he isn't afraid to defend it. I don't think he looks bad at all.

 

[CS1]

What do you think parables are if not allegories?

in context and allegory is not the same thing as one who allegorizes the word of God.

The context can not be spiritualized to have a different meaning. That is what the gnostic did with the resurrection of Jesus.

he did not have to literally be raised from the dead because it happened Spiritually. That mindset in unbiblical Jesus literally die, buried and rose again and ascended and is literally coming back to the Geographical location known as Israel.

 

[CS1]

Is Jesus really a Lamb or Door, or is this symbolic allegory?

Jesus is not a real door but HE is a real person who is God and is coming back. Learn what allegorizing is over and allegory.

You are welcome.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Of course you made the claim that Israel is living in peace, who you kidding
Quote below eternally-grateful, post #651
Quote: "The church is not in the land of Israel living in peace because they obey Gods commands because the promise was not given to them."

You're missing e-g's point.

And that point that you MISSED is, if "the Church" were the fulfillment of "Israel's" promises (promises made TO ISRAEL), then this is what we'd be seeing with regard to "the Church" NOW... but we DO NOT see that, *because* those promises were NOT to "the Church," but instead were to "Israel"... hello!

(and involves "THE LAND" ... "the land of Israel" )



(and *they* WILL see those promises fulfilled TO THEM, "yet future"... at some point FOLLOWING "our Rapture / THE DEPARTURE of *us* [IN THE AIR]!<--we ain't them, and they ain't us! ... *we* were not promised "LAND"... THEY were!)

 

[OldSage]

Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC didn't fulfill the Little Horn/Antichrist of Daniel as you suggest

This "Future" human man will be destroyed at the second coming, and his human body given to the burning flame in the Lake of Fire at the final judgement, a future event unfulfilled.

Daniel 7:9-11KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

I mean he was a type, insofar as he starts off as a little horn. This perhaps mirrors the antichrist figure in Daniel 7:
8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

Lucy's post is very interesting. i hope she says more.

 

[OldSage]

You're missing e-g's point.

And that point that you MISSED is, if "the Church" were the fulfillment of "Israel's" promises (promises made TO ISRAEL), then this is what we'd be seeing with regard to "the Church" NOW... but we DO NOT see that, *because* those promises were NOT to "the Church," but instead were to "Israel"... hello!

(and involves "THE LAND" ... "the land of Israel" )



(and *they* WILL see those promises fulfilled TO THEM, "yet future"... at some point FOLLOWING "our Rapture / THE DEPARTURE of *us* [IN THE AIR]!<--we ain't them, and they ain't us! )

Yes, but the Number 1 promise to Israel was a Saviour. But I agree, there are promises plural as well.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I mean he was a type, insofar as he starts off as a little horn.

I grasped that was your point


(especially because of your phrasing also in that post, "as the little horn recurs in regard to him.")

 

[Truth7t7]

I Agree. The man who makes this covenant with them is the future prince of Rome as seen in Dan 9.

The future Antichrist seen below in Daniel 11:37 will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent, his fathers worshipped the true Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

2 Chronicles 28:25KJV
25 And in every several city of Judah he made high places to burn incense unto other gods, and provoked to anger the Lord God of his fathers.

2 Chronicles 33:12-13KJV
12 And when he was in affliction, he besought the Lord his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers,
13 And prayed unto him: and he was intreated of him, and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the Lord he was God.