Temple in the Millenium, does it contradict the Gospel?

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Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#21
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

When is/was the time of reformation?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#22
When is/was the time of reformation?
The time of Reformation began the day Christ said "IT IS FINISHED".

How do we know this? The veil in the temple separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place (and the rest of the temple) was torn from top to bottom supernaturally, thus indicating that the true Mercy Seat would now be in the Heavenly Sanctuary, and that the blood of Christ would be sprinkled on it.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#23
I have read Ezekiel 40-48 and surely this hasnt literally ever happened. Which leads everyone(almost) to agree this is yet future, and most say it happens in the millennium.

Aside from the reinstitution of animal sacrifices, when we read these chapters we come across some things that seem to be very anti- New Covenant language:

Ezekiel 44:9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.

Isnt this completely opposite of Paul's message of "circumcision is nothing"? How are we to assume we would be going back to a worse system in the future? I realize that all the Christians would be in resurrection bodies, but to me it sounds like a DOWNGRADE to go from being in heaven, to getting a resurrection body and watching a bunch of animals get slaughtered and maybe even your family members live in the flesh and possibly dying/rebelling in the end. Sounds like i'd rather stay in heaven lol.

Another contradiction is: Jesus said His body is the temple now, in the new covenant, NOT a physical stone building somewhere:

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

What sayeth ye? Im especially looking forward to EG, Ahwatukee, VCO, dcon, TheDivineWatermark contributing! BUT ALL COMERS WELCOME THOUGH :cool: lets keep it friendly this time
Good day Hevosmies!

You are correct in that, for those in Christ the temple during the millennial period has nothing to do with salvation by grace through faith. But you have to remember that, God has unfinished business with His people Israel under the law, which must be fulfilled. That unfinished business is listed below:

=============================================
"Seventy weeks (weeks of years) are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

"And he (antichrist) will confirm a covenant with many for one week (last seven years), but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

Consequently, sixty nine of those seventy seven year periods were fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off, Christ crucified. There remains then, the seventieth seven or that last seven years, which God will fulfill in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. It is during this time that God will pour out His wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments upon a Christ rejecting world and is when the beast's kingdom will be established during the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it." Consequently, the church is still being built. Once it has been completed, the Lord will appear and will gather the entire church both dead and living. At that time, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years complete with a temple and animal sacrifices and that because the law was in place during the time of those seventy seven year periods. The church which is made up of both Jew and Gentile, has a different program/dispensation from the nation Israel and God is going to fulfill that last seven years with them.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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841
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#24
Another contradiction is: Jesus said His body is the temple now, in the new covenant, NOT a physical stone building somewhere:

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"

"As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be toppled.”

We must surely be able to discern from the context of scripture whether a physical temple is being referred to vs. the believers body as the temple. In other words, we can't just a apply the meaning of our bodies as being the temple of God in every scripture. The context should reveal what is being referred to.

As we can see from the above scriptures, from the context, the first scripture is speaking about the physical temple made of stones. And the second scripture is referring to the believers body as being the temple of the Holy Spirit. It is not difficult at all to discern which is in view in any given scripture based on the context.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#25
The time of Reformation began the day Christ said "IT IS FINISHED".

How do we know this? The veil in the temple separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place (and the rest of the temple) was torn from top to bottom supernaturally, thus indicating that the true Mercy Seat would now be in the Heavenly Sanctuary, and that the blood of Christ would be sprinkled on it.
Then why bring em back? reformation came already

This is an achilles heel for sure
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,127
836
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#26
The time of Reformation began the day Christ said "IT IS FINISHED".

How do we know this? The veil in the temple separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place (and the rest of the temple) was torn from top to bottom supernaturally, thus indicating that the true Mercy Seat would now be in the Heavenly Sanctuary, and that the blood of Christ would be sprinkled on it.
The veil was used like the foreskin to represent the promised Son of man spoken of in Isaiah 53 .Who was cut off from the father when he was suffering the pangs of hell unto death.

The veil in the temple symbolically separated the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place according to 2 Corinthians 4:18 .It represented the true mercy place not seen. The actual eternal Holy place not seen, the place of glory will not be revealed on this corrupted earth.

The time period when the faithless Jews stood in the Holy place were used in that parable for the time them present, it came to a end, the veil represented flesh is rent. The generation of Christ was restored to the time period of the judges. Therefore we are not to anticipate anymore outward fleshly demonstrations of the work of the invisible Spirt of God.

The true holy of holy place (the unseen) will occur on the last day
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,665
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#27
Ezekiel was a promise to the Jews, if they obeyed God. They did not, so no third (or is it 4th, since Herod's temple is not the same as Nehemiah's temple which was built after the exiles returned?) temple!

I don't get why you obsess about all this stuff. Every Christian needs to be walking with God. And Jesus is going to return to a renewed earth, not this nonsense with believers and unsaved thrown together, so at the end of 1000 years (a short time, but the biggest number used in those days!) Jesus has to return again?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,127
836
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#28
Ezekiel was a promise to the Jews, if they obeyed God. They did not, so no third (or is it 4th, since Herod's temple is not the same as Nehemiah's temple which was built after the exiles returned?) temple!

I don't get why you obsess about all this stuff. Every Christian needs to be walking with God. And Jesus is going to return to a renewed earth, not this nonsense with believers and unsaved thrown together, so at the end of 1000 years (a short time, but the biggest number used in those days!) Jesus has to return again?

I would agree its why the Amil position (no literal thousands years) works the best according to the signified language of the parable (Revelation 20) Christ who lives in these bodies of death is already here reigning with saints . The timing is the last day when the second death will be cast into the lake of fire and the same twinkling of the eye we will receive our new incorruptible bodies (neither male nor female Jew nor gentile as a new creation.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,382
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#29
Then why bring em back? reformation came already... This is an achilles heel for sure
Not really. You and I do not know the mind of God with reference to redeemed and restored Israel UNDER THE NEW COVENANT.

There is no doubt a great deal which God has not disclosed, but there will be a way for fully harmonizing the existence of a Millennial Temple with the finished work of Christ. God knows the end from the beginning, but "the secret things belong unto the LORD our God..." (Deut 29:29).
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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#30
I have read Ezekiel 40-48 and surely this hasnt literally ever happened. Which leads everyone(almost) to agree this is yet future, and most say it happens in the millennium.

Aside from the reinstitution of animal sacrifices, when we read these chapters we come across some things that seem to be very anti- New Covenant language:

Ezekiel 44:9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.

Isnt this completely opposite of Paul's message of "circumcision is nothing"? How are we to assume we would be going back to a worse system in the future? I realize that all the Christians would be in resurrection bodies, but to me it sounds like a DOWNGRADE to go from being in heaven, to getting a resurrection body and watching a bunch of animals get slaughtered and maybe even your family members live in the flesh and possibly dying/rebelling in the end. Sounds like i'd rather stay in heaven lol.

Another contradiction is: Jesus said His body is the temple now, in the new covenant, NOT a physical stone building somewhere:

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

What sayeth ye? Im especially looking forward to EG, Ahwatukee, VCO, dcon, TheDivineWatermark contributing! BUT ALL COMERS WELCOME THOUGH :cool: lets keep it friendly this time
The key is uncircumcised of heart....not born again....children will be given to the age of 100 to repent and acknowledge....there will be lost people on the planet during the 1000 year reign of Christ.....<---this number is gathered by Satan when he is released from the pit for a short season.....!!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
2,835
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#31
Not really. You and I do not know the mind of God with reference to redeemed and restored Israel UNDER THE NEW COVENANT.

There is no doubt a great deal which God has not disclosed, but there will be a way for fully harmonizing the existence of a Millennial Temple with the finished work of Christ. God knows the end from the beginning, but "the secret things belong unto the LORD our God..." (Deut 29:29).
I get that. Just sounds so wrong to have the animal sacrifices brought back at any time.

Im not feeling it! If we had this in the NT it would be a case closed and there would be no debate. But since its not, and we know the OT is a shadow of things to come, im more RESERVED to make absolute claims of something so potentially serious

I feel its an insult to Jesus' blood. He got rid of the temple once already, and the new temple is His body. No need to bring back a stone block, in light of the New Testament.

I get that its in the OT, but how on EARTH are Ezekiel 40-48 compatible with NT doctrine, just a complete mismatch!

Do i have to become a dispensationalist to make heads or tails of how on earth it fits with the one new man in Christ Jesus?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#32
I feel its an insult to Jesus' blood. He got rid of the temple once already, and the new temple is His body. No need to bring back a stone block, in light of the New Testament.
1. The New Testament reveals the Church.

2. The Church (the Body of Christ) will dwell in the New Jerusalem.

3. Redeemed and restored Israel on earth will also be under the New Covenant.

4. God will reconcile everything in the future.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#33
1. The New Testament reveals the Church.

2. The Church (the Body of Christ) will dwell in the New Jerusalem.

3. Redeemed and restored Israel on earth will also be under the New Covenant.

4. God will reconcile everything in the future.
OH!

So the church wont be on earth during that time? The millennium?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#34
Ezekiel was a promise to the Jews, if they obeyed God. They did not, so no third (or is it 4th, since Herod's temple is not the same as Nehemiah's temple which was built after the exiles returned?) temple!

I don't get why you obsess about all this stuff. Every Christian needs to be walking with God. And Jesus is going to return to a renewed earth, not this nonsense with believers and unsaved thrown together, so at the end of 1000 years (a short time, but the biggest number used in those days!) Jesus has to return again?
Hey sis, Where did you hear this stuff? Just curious.
 
Mar 14, 2011
61,021
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#35
People need to remember

Before jesus died, he said that the things of God has been hidden from Israel because they were not willing. The time of Israel had come to an end. And Jesus would start the church.

But prophesy makes no doubt that in the future Israel will repent, and at this time God will restor her as a nation. And in fact. Rule from her own city (the city of David)

Ig God wants to build a new temple and do certain things as a testimony of what happened in the past to show the WORLD. Then who are we to argue?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,382
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#36
So the church wont be on earth during that time? The millennium?
The saints will rule over the nations with Christ, but that will not mean that their permanent residence in on earth.

It will be like a circuit judge (back in the day), who would travel around administering justice, but his home was somewhere else. And actually we do not know the precise details about how the saints will rule and reign with Christ. But the New Jerusalem was prepared by God for His saints within the Church (and that will also include the OT saints because they are all already there with the NT saints who have passed on).
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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#37
I just think these will take place after the dispensation of the grace of God comes to it's fulfillment at the last Trump. This dispensation is the one where Gentiles are grafted in with the Jews through faith in the gospel.

This dispensation is called "The mystery of God"(Revelation chapter 10:7). I think most of the confusion comes from understanding what "day" we are currently in. To the best of my understanding, we are at or near the end of the 6th day.

Every old testament account paints a picture. Remember when Paul said in Romans 15:4, that all things were written for our learning? We just don't see the pictures given to us.

Being a woman, I hesitate to say more than that.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,306
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#38
I have read Ezekiel 40-48 and surely this hasnt literally ever happened. Which leads everyone(almost) to agree this is yet future, and most say it happens in the millennium.

Aside from the reinstitution of animal sacrifices, when we read these chapters we come across some things that seem to be very anti- New Covenant language:

Ezekiel 44:9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.

Isnt this completely opposite of Paul's message of "circumcision is nothing"? How are we to assume we would be going back to a worse system in the future? I realize that all the Christians would be in resurrection bodies, but to me it sounds like a DOWNGRADE to go from being in heaven, to getting a resurrection body and watching a bunch of animals get slaughtered and maybe even your family members live in the flesh and possibly dying/rebelling in the end. Sounds like i'd rather stay in heaven lol.

Another contradiction is: Jesus said His body is the temple now, in the new covenant, NOT a physical stone building somewhere:

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

What sayeth ye? Im especially looking forward to EG, Ahwatukee, VCO, dcon, TheDivineWatermark contributing! BUT ALL COMERS WELCOME THOUGH :cool: lets keep it friendly this time

The thing about it my friend is that if the temple is not a valid temple then the MoS cannot set up an AoB in it. So it has to be recognized as a valid temple by God before it can have an abomination set up in it.

The thing to hash out I think is how can the MoS set up an Image in a temple if that next temple is nullified?,,,
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,038
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#39
Ezekiel was a promise to the Jews, if they obeyed God. They did not, so no third (or is it 4th, since Herod's temple is not the same as Nehemiah's temple which was built after the exiles returned?) temple!

I don't get why you obsess about all this stuff. Every Christian needs to be walking with God. And Jesus is going to return to a renewed earth, not this nonsense with believers and unsaved thrown together, so at the end of 1000 years (a short time, but the biggest number used in those days!) Jesus has to return again?
Well, it says during the 1,000 years Satan will be bound in the abyss so that he can not deceive the nations. I see the nations being deceived right now, so he must not be bound. Also, the amill view sees these 1,000 years as symbolic and not a literal 1,000 years. So, according to their view Satan has to be bound right now. After the 1,000 years it says he will be loesened for a short season. To do what? In the amill view, after the 1,000 symbolic years are up, a general resurrection takes place and ppl go one of two places. So, why release him when there is no one here?
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#40
The Ezekiel Temple is Spiritual not Physical. Revelation explains Ezekiel by ''pegging'' a number of Ezekiel's details including the Temple. Revelation also describes a service in Heaven which is Gods real Temple.

Here is a list of some of the key points in Ezekiel and the corresponding places in Revelation:

Subject Ezekiel Revelation

The Throne Vision Chap 1 Chap 4

The Book Chap 2-3 Chap 5

The Four Plagues Chap 5 6: 1-8

The slain under the Altar Chap 6 6: 9-11

The wrath of God Chap 7 6: 12-17

The seal on the Saints foreheads Chap 9 Chap 7

The Coals from the Alter Chap 10 Chap 8

No more delay Chap 12 10: 1-7

The eating of the Book Chap 2 10: 8-11

The measuring of the Temple Chap 40-43 11: 1-2

Jerusalem and Sodom Chap 16 11: 8

The Cup of wrath Chap 23 Chap 14

The Vine of the Land Chap 15 14: 18-20

The Great Harlot Chap 16,23 Chap 17,18

The lament over the City Chap 27 Chap 18

The scavengers feast Chap 39 Chap 19

The first Resurrection Chap 37 20: 4-6

Gog and Magog Chap 38,39 20: 7-9

The New Jerusalem Chap 40-48 Chap 21

The River of Life Chap 47 Chap 22


The reason for this list is to to place the threads subject in the context of Ezekiel as a whole