TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

[Thunderrr-mental]

You're right.I did get that mixed up.I'm sorry.

no need to be sorry friend 😊

I dont often see this at cc, I welcome you brother thanks😊

mostly I see the rot continuing in something called Christian Zionism at its finest.

It Just goes on and on.

But the thing is when you know Just how evil Zionism is, it's so easy to become a Zionist too.

But if you seek the lord to help you to identify Zionism, to identify it , endure it, overcome it with patience and guidance for the overcome brother , it won't be long before you will also be overcoming all antichrists.

zionism is the language of antichrist.

Warning for you to have Better insight.

You have an overview that a Christian may be subject to being brainwashed by an antiChrist Zionist.

As you've hopefully accepted by now the antichrist is a spirit not of this world with the authority of the dragon to accuse Gods people day and night.

You must learn to be tolerant of all Zionist views, including the views we are not in the great tribulation, that one is antichrist because it denys The word of Jesus.

In John 1 it's says we know we are in the last hour because many anti Christs spirits have come into the world.

I can't see this being an issue for you 😊.

I can see your tolerance in abundance at the moment.

In future tho a word of warning would be always seek the lord to see if people are right and not wrong. The lord will provide an answer.

If there wrong delay your answer and hold on to your jewels when talking to them 😊 at least for a while anyway.

As They will only reject it.

The lord will let you know when there ready to accept it. 😊

 

[douggg]

You made reference to worshiping the image that Nebuchadnezzar had constructed.

We see another image that the false prophet forces people to worship, on pain of death.

Revelation 13:15
And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause all who do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

The Revelation 13:15 image will be statue image of the beast-king. The size of it we are not told.

The image that Nebuchadnezzar had made in Daniel 3 - 90 feet tall and 9 feet wide, and set up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon, may have been an obelisk with engravings on it that depicted Nebuchadnezzar achievements.

It could have been as an ego thing, or maybe a warning thing to travelers, or maybe both.

 

[cv5]

That's exactly what happened.

Titus needed a wide path to get the soldiers in quickly. Whether the entire Antonian Fort was destroyed or not, is beside the point.
We know the temple was up on the mount with the Antonian Fort. Josephus tells us the foundation of the fort was taken apart for that wide pathway.

The Antonia fortress was MASSIVE......36 or 38 acres. Housing something like 30,000 persons total.
It was of the TYPICAL ROMAN DESIGN, similar (if not larger) to their military installation all over the world.
Far larger than the Jewish Temple and its environs.

And the foundation of the ANTONIA FORTRESS is what the Musim religious compound is built upon.
No way what the "foundation" torn down. Ridiculous. The western wall is part the fortress foundation for pity's sake.
Absolutely no doubt about this whatsoever.

 

[cv5]

I don't think the little horn goes to war against the ten kings in Daniel 7, but arises to be the leader of a panel of ten leaders of the fourth kingdom (the E.U in the end times). And removes three of those other leaders of the fourth kingdom - probably because they don't go along with the policies set.

He will be different than the other ten leaders, in that he will be a Jew.

I think that panel is going be some sort of defensive panel. We don't know exactly at this time.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The 7 kings in Revelation 17:10 are of the Julio Claudian bloodline - i.e. the Caesar family. Which seems to indicate that the little horn person will also be descended from the Julio-Claudians. Or it may be that when he becomes the beast-king, he assumes the title of Caesar. Again, don't know for sure at this time.

I am keeping my eye on Zelensky. Ukraine is on a fast track to become a fulfledged EU nation. The Jews (Judaism) expect the messiah to be a great politician and to have military capability - both of which, Zelensky fits that model. Too early to tell for sure.

Yes there is definitely "wiggle room", that's for sure.
Z is a drug addict petty puppet criminal on the take. No way he is the beast. And he has LOST his puppet war.

The key element here is.....WAR. The AC begins his reign supposedly bringing peace. Quickly he becomes a military dictator, to whom the other kings swear fealty (not having any other choice frankly.....matter of survival).
Furthermore, the beast is both a king (the Satan-man counterfeit) and a kingdom and an image, and a mark.

As you can see, there ARE allusions to Daniel here.....this will be a gentile kingdom that dominates Israel. Again. A neo-Roman kingdom (the one not mentioned in vv 2), which has persisted from Paul's day to the present, and will reach its zenith at the end times.

Rev 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Rev 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Josephus said there was three pillars and a wall standing. everythign else was raised.

Here is another eyewitness account

In AD 73 Eleazar gave an eyewitness account of the survival of the Roman Fort (camp), which was the lone facility to survive the destruction of Jerusalem. Here are his words, as recorded by Dr. Ernest Martin in his exceptional book, The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot (2000):

“And where is now that great city [Jerusalem], the metropolis of the Jewish nation, which was fortified by so many walls round about, which had so many fortresses and large towers to defend it, which could hardly contain the instruments prepared for the war, and which had so many ten thousands of men to fight for it? Where is this city that was believed to have God himself inhabiting therein? It is now demolished to the very foundations, and hath nothing left but that monument of it preserved, I mean the camp of those [the Romans] that hath destroyed it, which (camp) still dwells upon its ruins; some unfortunate men also lie upon the ashes of the Temple [then in total ruins – burnt to ashes], and a few women are there preserved alive by the enemy, for our bitter shame and reproach.”

Eleazer’s account is one of utter ruin of both the city and the Temple. Only the Roman camp (Fort Antonia) survived. He further observed that God “abandoned His most holy city to be burnt and razed to the ground” and concluded his eyewitness account with the following words:

“I cannot but wish that we had all died before we had seen that holy city demolished by the hands of our enemies, or the foundations of our Holy Temple dug up, after so profane a manner.”


The only thing left was the ruins of the old roman fortress

The temple stood BELOW this fortress We are told in acts the roman army had to go down 600 feet to rescue paul.

 

[cv5]

Josephus said there was three pillars and a wall standing. everythign else was raised.

Here is another eyewitness account

In AD 73 Eleazar gave an eyewitness account of the survival of the Roman Fort (camp), which was the lone facility to survive the destruction of Jerusalem. Here are his words, as recorded by Dr. Ernest Martin in his exceptional book, The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot (2000):

“And where is now that great city [Jerusalem], the metropolis of the Jewish nation, which was fortified by so many walls round about, which had so many fortresses and large towers to defend it, which could hardly contain the instruments prepared for the war, and which had so many ten thousands of men to fight for it? Where is this city that was believed to have God himself inhabiting therein? It is now demolished to the very foundations, and hath nothing left but that monument of it preserved, I mean the camp of those [the Romans] that hath destroyed it, which (camp) still dwells upon its ruins; some unfortunate men also lie upon the ashes of the Temple [then in total ruins – burnt to ashes], and a few women are there preserved alive by the enemy, for our bitter shame and reproach.”

Eleazer’s account is one of utter ruin of both the city and the Temple. Only the Roman camp (Fort Antonia) survived. He further observed that God “abandoned His most holy city to be burnt and razed to the ground” and concluded his eyewitness account with the following words:

“I cannot but wish that we had all died before we had seen that holy city demolished by the hands of our enemies, or the foundations of our Holy Temple dug up, after so profane a manner.”


The only thing left was the ruins of the old roman fortress

The temple stood BELOW this fortress We are told in acts the roman army had to go down 600 feet to rescue paul.

Correct......
This nonsense that the Antonia Fortress was likewise destroyed is hogwash.
In fact it endured for quite some time afterward.

It is now demolished to the very foundations, and hath nothing left but that monument of it preserved, I mean the camp of those [the Romans] that hath destroyed it, which (camp) still dwells upon its ruins;

 

[cv5]

So tell us what covenants exist.

You say one, the Bible says all kinds buddy. All kinds. Fully in force. For eternity.
Y'all should look them up.

You forgot about this one for starters. Among several others.
BTW....there is every reason to believe that ALL ANIMALS who have the breath of life (as God defines life) WILL BE RESURRECTED.
All of them. Trillions.

And the New Jerusalem, being infinite and infinitely fractal with infinite hyperspaces can hold INFINTE amounts of beings.


Gen 9:8
And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
Gen 9:9
And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Gen 9:10
And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
Gen 9:11
And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Gen 9:12
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13
I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14
And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15
And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16
And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You say one, the Bible says all kinds buddy. All kinds. Fully in force. For eternity.
Y'all should look them up.

You forgot about this one for starters. Among several others.
BTW....there is every reason to believe that ALL ANIMALS who have the breath of life (as God defines life) WILL BE RESURRECTED.
All of them. Trillions.

And the New Jerusalem, being infinite and infinitely fractal with infinite hyperspaces can hold INFINTE amounts of beings.


Gen 9:8
And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
Gen 9:9
And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Gen 9:10
And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
Gen 9:11
And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Gen 9:12
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13
I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14
And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15
And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16
And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

are you saying God hasn't set that bow in the clouds yet 🤔

 

[Pilgrimshope]

But yet Jacob was renamed Isreal, which is an indication it would be his son's that would be Isreal and not some piece of land.

Which is also indication all land will will be become the kingdoms of Christ all over the world.

Whilst Jerusalem may be the home to the the new heavenly Jerusalem it still doesn't make that land any more blessed than other land.

If you read Genesis 49 the last words to his son's from Isreal (Jacob),
is about prophecy of what will come to the sons of Isreal. It's indicates they will all go through a great tribulation until salvation has come for all Isreal

Whilst all the sons of Isreal will be saved, it's important to recognise Isreal are those who follow Christ

Isreal is not a Jew or a gentile God has made no distinction,

That’s an interesting read there I agree with a lot of what you’re saying ever considered what trheee kinda of parables Jesus is speaking throughout Israel are all about ? How would you underrrsnd this parable ? I’m asking because of your post here

“Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: and sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse.

The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

So that servant came, and shewed his Lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. And the Lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭14:16-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

here is Luke’s witness also since Im Asking you to give me your thoughts on it

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“….In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what do you hear in that parable Jesus is speaking in Israel ?

 

[cv5]

are you saying God hasn't set that bow in the clouds yet 🤔

You totally missed the point. God did already, and THAT covenant is eternal. It is not obsolete and never will be.

One of several perpetual eternal covenants that will NEVER cease. Some having to do with the NATION Israel.
Much to the chagrin of @Cameron143

 

[Inquisitor]

The Antonia fortress was MASSIVE......36 or 38 acres. Housing something like 30,000 persons total.
It was of the TYPICAL ROMAN DESIGN, similar (if not larger) to their military installation all over the world.
Far larger than the Jewish Temple and its environs.

And the foundation of the ANTONIA FORTRESS is what the Musim religious compound is built upon.
No way what the "foundation" torn down. Ridiculous. The western wall is part the fortress foundation for pity's sake.
Absolutely no doubt about this whatsoever.

I disagree. The Antonia Fort did not need to be big fort. The Jewish population was small. Jerusalem in the first century was not a large city.

On the site of the current dome of the rock.
Between 1938 and 1942, R.W. Hamilton, director of the British Mandate Antiquities Department, carried out the only archaeological excavation ever undertaken at the Temple Mount's Aqsa Mosque by the British Mandate. Two of the finds are a Byzantine mosaic floor underneath the mosque, probably the remains of a church or a monastery;[5][6] and a slab with the relief image of a centaur, dated to the 3rd century CE, believed to be a vestige of the Late Roman temple of Jupiter Capitolinus built on the Temple Mount after 135.[7] (wiki)

There is not doubt about the location of the temple.

Western Wall Tunnel, archaeology, 1996.
The tunnel exposes a total length of 500 m (a third of a mile) of the wall, revealing the methods of construction and the various activities in the vicinity of the Temple Mount. The excavations included many archaeological finds along the way, including discoveries from the Herodian period (streets, monumental masonry), sections of a reconstruction of the Western Wall dating to the Umayyad period, and various structures dating to the Ayyubid, Mamluk, and Hasmonean periods constructed to support buildings in the vicinity of the Temple Mount. Warren's Gate lies about 150 feet (46 m) into the tunnel. At the northern portion of the Western Wall, remains of a water channel, which originally supplied water to the Temple Mount, were found. The exact source of the channel is unknown, though it passes through an underground pool known as the Strouthion Pool. The water channel was dated to the Hasmonean period and was accordingly dubbed the Hasmonean Channel.(wiki)

They had water flowing at the temple mount!

 

[turbosixx]

TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

The debate is vast among believers on the subject of a 3rd temple in Jerusalem.
For the record, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE ONE.....nor do I believe any such structure for the purpose of sacrifice I.E TABERNACLE will be constructed....
Many if Not most believers are watching for this so called construct to be built basing their end times readiness on that event......However, DOES THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAY THERE WILL BE A TEMPLE?
[Rev 11:1-2 ] 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD AND THE ALTER, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.
One of the clearest passages indicating a temple, and to be certain, one that seems to indicate a third temples existence. during the 70th week.
the structure described in the above passage, is a brick & mortar building...ruling out the TENT (tabernacle) theory so what explanation can there be? I believe that it is an illustration for John's benefit as He is writing the book of Revelation.
However, if we look closely, some clear problems begin to unfold in this passage........TEMPLE OF GOD......IF THE JEWS ARE SUCCESSFUL in Building this Temple, to be used for ANIMAL SACRIFICE, can it be legitimately called TEMPLE OF GOD? when in fact it would be sacrilege for animal sacrifice to be instituted once again. the benefit would primarily exist to be a home base for the anti christ, not BELIEVERS OR JEWS.... yet in the passage above it seems to indicate a viable TEMPLE with the purpose of GODS dwelling place....so what is JOHN seeing? I believe He is simply seeing the Temple as it existed in HIS DAY...NOT a FUTURE rebuilt structure. I'll Admit I don't have all the answers...but I do know there will BE NO RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE for a third temple....
I will show later...how if this 3rd Temple is built, it must also be destroyed AGAIN.....
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!!!

You are correct. There will not be a physical structure. The temple is continually being built each day.
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

I suggest the key question to answer is, who are God's people today.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You totally missed the point. God did already, and THAT covenant is eternal. It is not obsolete and never will be.

One of several perpetual eternal covenants that will NEVER cease. Some having to do with the NATION Israel.
Much to the chagrin of @Cameron143

Sir by denying the temple is built and growing you give grounds away to the antiChrist.

Sir you give grounds to the antichrist

By rebuilding the temple that the lord abolished you give grounds away

Whether you see the temple as a sign that the time as come you still give grounds away

You've missed the point, this covenant was established and fulfilled.. as he said neither shall all flesh be cut off.

Because why because the plans where in place for the next stage.

Further more he promises to not cut flesh of, but not spirit.

So again all flesh will see great tribulation of all creatures great and small

So then wakey wakey 😊

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That’s an interesting read there I agree with a lot of what you’re saying ever considered what trheee kinda of parables Jesus is speaking throughout Israel are all about ? How would you underrrsnd this parable ? I’m asking because of your post here

“Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: and sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse.

The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

So that servant came, and shewed his Lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. And the Lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭14:16-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

here is Luke’s witness also since Im Asking you to give me your thoughts on it

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“….In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what do you hear in that parable Jesus is speaking in Israel ?

well parables can open the door to many spiritual truths and prophecies to come to.

Just when you think you have them worked out a few years down the line something else could materialise,

It's best not to completely lean on your own interpretation I found, because I do see many parables as prophetic words too. I have pulled up two massive ones.

But then I need to examine it further as I'm instructed to interpret prophecy, but not lean on my own understanding.

In Luke 14 Christ was invited to a feast held in the home of a ruler of the Pharisees who may have ment well I think.

While the real reason of his invite was for the the Pharisees to watch Jesus in hope of finding something against him, But Jesus used the occasion to teach those present.

In Luke 14.15 the Jews believed only the Jews would belong to a the kingdom and enjoy the blessings of God's kingdom

Jesus corrected that miss interpretation
With the parable of the great supper

The parable teaches that the Jews would reject God's invitation and would find themselves outside the kingdom and outside his if his blessings

The main point of the parable was to teach the kingdom was open to all which as I hopefully hope, by now you would see that as the the beginnings of the great tribulation.

Because up to this stage all people on earth, there father was of the devil well most people anyhow.

So again this is another parable of prophecy 😊

Of course to not all the people of the banquet where Pharisee. As the pharisee where religious leaders, so I guess the message was for all Jews. 😊

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

John 6:39,40 is speaking of two distinct matters which will be raised up "IN the LAST DAY" (not a "singular 24-hr day" kind of "day"--but the LAST MILLENIUM--the SEVENTH and LAST--what Hosea calls "IN the THIRD DAY" because factored from the time of His ascension, in that passage, referring to ISRAEL's "future"... same subject as Ezek37:12-14,20-23,26,28... and Dan12:1-3,4... and Isa26:13-21... and in Romans 11:15[,25]... etc... ALL of these passages LIKENING it to a "resurrection," but speaking of Israel coming up out of the "graveyard of nations, WHERE SCATTERED")] :

--[Jn6] v.39 speaks of PEOPLE (the "saved" PERSONS... bodily resurrected);

--[Jn6] v.40 speaks of THINGS (His throne / government-al THINGS... the kind of thing that His disciples asked Him regarding the TIMING about in Acts 1 ("wilt thou AT THIS TIME *restore* again the kingdom TO ISRAEL?"... and to which He responded to their question ABOUT ITS TIMING with words concerning ITS TIMING, not its NATURE which aspect they well-understood... they just did not understand its TIMING, hence their specific question to Him there])

And in Acts 3:21, Peter says (to "ye men of Israel" v.12), about Jesus... "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."

It hit me just today, that in my Post #260 (way back on Page 13), I had inadvertently SWAPPED the subjects being covered in John 6:39,40...

... my post (mid-section, above) should read instead:

--Jn6:39 is about "THINGS" (which He shall "raise up" IN the LAST DAY [/IN the last millennium])--example of things "GIVEN" Him [v.39 "that ALL of which he [the Father] has GIVEN Me I should lose nothing, but should raise IT up IN the Last Day": as in, Lk 1:32b "and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David" [earthly-located throne... 'the throne of His glory' - Matt25:31-34 / Matt19:28 [/Lk22:30], when [at that time] "the 12" will sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel]);

--Jn6:40 is about "PERSONS" (whom He shall "raise up" IN the LAST DAY [/IN the last millennium])



(these two verses aren't covering identical matters [as though v.39 is simply being "repeated" in v.40], but two distinct matters... both of which He will "raise up" IN the Last Day [/IN the Last Millennium]).









My apologies for any confusion my inadvertent "swapping" may have caused. lol

I was compelled to place this correction in this thread, sorry it has taken me DAYS to realize I had goofed this up. lol

 

[douggg]

I have read several of the comments here saying that there not going to be another physical temple - which most of those posts are citing the metaphoric temple made up of Christians.

It appears to me that those making such comments are not that knowledgeable when it comes to eschatology.

There has to be another temple built in order for the Antichrist to stop the daily sacrifices. The daily sacrifices can only be done when there is a temple standing.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I have read several of the comments here saying that there not going to be another physical temple - which most of those posts are citing the metaphoric temple made up of Christians.

It appears to me that those making such comments are not that knowledgeable when it comes to eschatology.

There has to be another temple built in order for the Antichrist to stop the daily sacrifices. The daily sacrifices can only be done when there is a temple standing.

Sir know exactly what eschatology means.

As you can see it's theology, so sir it's a spiritual battle not a building battle.


Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

noun

1. the part of theology concerned with death, judgement, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
   "Christian hope is concerned with eschatology, or the science of last things

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I have read several of the comments here saying that there not going to be another physical temple - which most of those posts are citing the metaphoric temple made up of Christians.

It appears to me that those making such comments are not that knowledgeable when it comes to eschatology.

There has to be another temple built in order for the Antichrist to stop the daily sacrifices. The daily sacrifices can only be done when there is a temple standing.

Right.

And even Irenaeus wrote of same, "way back"... but wrote this well-after the events of 70ad:

[quoting Irenaeus]

"[...] a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs. Daniel 8:23, etc. And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: And in the midst of the week, he says, the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete. Daniel 9:27 Now three years and six months constitute the half-week."

--Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5.25.4 - https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103525.htm


[end quoting Irenaeus; bold and underline mine]


Notice:

--"during which the saints SHALL BE PUT TO FLIGHT,..." speaks of where it says, "Then let them WHICH BE IN JUDAEA *FLEE* to the mountains" (Matt24:16, per v.15; ALSO in Rev12:6,14 "FLED" and "FLY"), and verse "20 But pray ye that your FLIGHT be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 FOR THEN shall be GREAT tribulation..."
Notice that the passage is not saying ANY OTHER SAINTS LOCATED ELSEWHERE on the earth are to do so, only "THEY WHICH BE IN JUDAEA" at the time-slot being spoken of. (Recall that the Matthew section is referring to what takes place FOLLOWING "the beginning of birth pangs"; whereas the Luke 21 section [covering the 70ad events, vv.12-24a,b] speaks of THAT "flee" as taking place BEFORE ALL "the beginning of birth pangs"--They are completely distinct, occurring at wholly distinct time-periods: one in 70ad events, the other far-future.)



Now, why would Irenaeus (well after 70ad) be writing about "the temple" (located on the earth) and saints being "put to flight" as a yet-future event, if 70ad was supposed to have been "it"... ?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Right.

And even Irenaeus wrote of same, "way back"... but wrote this well-after the events of 70ad:

[quoting Irenaeus]

"[...] a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs. Daniel 8:23, etc. And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: And in the midst of the week, he says, the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete. Daniel 9:27 Now three years and six months constitute the half-week."

--Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5.25.4 - https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103525.htm


[end quoting Irenaeus; bold and underline mine]


Notice:

--"during which the saints SHALL BE PUT TO FLIGHT,..." speaks of where it says, "Then let them WHICH BE IN JUDAEA *FLEE* to the mountains" (Matt24:16, per v.15; ALSO in Rev12:6,14 "FLED" and "FLY"), and verse "20 But pray ye that your FLIGHT be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 FOR THEN shall be GREAT tribulation..."
Notice that the passage is not saying ANY OTHER SAINTS LOCATED ELSEWHERE on the earth are to do so, only "THEY WHICH BE IN JUDAEA" at the time-slot being spoken of. (Recall that the Matthew section is referring to what takes place FOLLOWING "the beginning of birth pangs"; whereas the Luke 21 section [covering the 70ad events, vv.12-24a,b] speaks of THAT "flee" as taking place BEFORE ALL "the beginning of birth pangs"--They are completely distinct, occurring at wholly distinct time-periods: one in 70ad events, the other far-future.)



Now, why would Irenaeus (well after 70ad) be writing about "the temple" (located on the earth) and saints being "put to flight" as a yet-future event, if 70ad was supposed to have been "it"... ?

simple answer the word had not spread to the rest of the world then.

Next simple answer salvation will come to the gentiles before the Jews.

Next simple answer the great tribulation we are currently in will get greater.

People will flee all over the world.

Final summarizing of your quote,

It really sounds like your not completely sure what will happen, as your quote is a speculation, and a lightweight argument correct 🤔

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Thunderrr-mental , No, we are not in "the great tribulation," as the "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" that both Jesus and Daniel in Dan12:11 spoke of, HAS NOT YET TAKEN PLACE (it WILL take place, commencing about 3.5 yrs [and lasting only that long] before Daniel and all OT saints are resurrected ['to stand again'--on the earth], which in no way took place in or around the 70ad events.)


The "ARRIVAL" of the man of sin takes place at the same time the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" does, i.e. at SEAL #1 (the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" [1Th5:1-3] of MANY MORE birth pangs that will follow on from that INITIAL one);
"The Day of the Lord" INCLUDES all three of the following:

--the 7-yr Tribulation period unfolding upon the earth (the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect);

--Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" aspect); AND

--His 1000-yr reign on / over the earth (the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" aspect);

ALL THREE.

The DOTL does not COMMENCE until Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Rev5:6), which has not yet taken place; and we can know this because of Rev5:4's "WAS FOUND" wording (like is used in the latter chpts of Acts when Paul was brought before their human/earthly "bema") which words in Rev5:4 are indicating that a "searching judgment" has already been concluded at that point--(hence the "stephanous/crowns" etc--Paul said he would be awarded "IN THAT DAY")--prior to Jesus' opening the FIRST SEAL (the FIRST SEAL corresponding with Jesus' words in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ('a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"--"bow" often meaning "deception")... and Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1 informing that the "future" aspects of the Book of Rev are "['SHOW'...] ... things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [noun]," NOT things which would transpire over the course of some near-2000 years, as the Historcists have it.)


So, yes, I believe the man of sin / antichrist will be an actual human... and exist in his role during a very specific, future, LIMITED time-period, which has not yet come in to play.

I was going to address some of this AND MORE in the other thread you created, but I got busy with travel and got sidetracked away from posting there. = )