THANK YOU

NoahsDad · May 11, 2009

I'd like to thank Kakashi for posting the thread about being a jerk,I must admit It got me to reexamining my own posts to some threads,Even tho I felt I was defending my friends,ie bros.And sisters in christ,sometimes I came off as a first class jerk .
Often times I look at some of the debates and they remind me of an old movie with Lilly Tomlyn and Steve Martin(Can't remember the name of it )But the plot was that through a freak scientific accident Steve and Lillys' brain become combined in Steves' body ,and the comical fights they get into in that body remind me of the Church here lately,Not just in these threads or in the Chatrooms but even in local church denominations,Each one is battling with the other for the right to be right.If you dont believe like I do youre indanger of loosing rewards or the worse hell fire.Petecostals say the baptists are hell bound and baptists say that Charismatics are in danger of loosing rewards and hell bound,And Nondenoms say they are all wrong ,all the while teaching the same thing as baptist or charismatics,or a combination of both.
Which reminds me of a joke
This guy dies and stands befor St.Peter at the pearly gates,
St.Pete looks at his book to see if the guy was in it,and sure enough he was there was saved ,believed in the resurected Christ and was covered by the blood,
But he never decided to follow a denom.
So St.Pete looks at him and sais"Your records look really good,But I dont know where to put ya","sais here you never decided on a denomination".,he exclaims to him,"lets take a walk to see where you fit in"
So they go down this looooong hallway,with all these doors,behind each door was a different denomination,one by one they look into each door to see where this guy wanted to live through eternioty worshiping God in a way he learned to.
So they come to the last 2 doors.Looked in one and the folx were laughing and praising ,dancing,hoopin and hollerin,loud music,ete.
"Looks like a big ol party",The guy exclaimed,"too loud for me tho personally",
So St>Pete closes that door and opens the last one.
The folx there were more,How do I say,relaxed?,Yeah.
It was dead calm,Still,you could hear a pin drop in that room,The Room wqas really nicely decorated,the pews were all brand new looking,every one seemed to be praying or sleepin,
The guy opened his mouth to speak ,But St.Pete put his hand over his mouth ,and slowly shut the door.
Then said Shhhhhhhhhhh......,
Walking down the hallway the guy asked about the room and why he couldnt speak.
And St.Pete said
"They think they're the onlyones here"
I wonder how many of us are gunna end up in that room.

I try to go by live and let live,Ya know ?I mean aslong as I dont see them worshiping anyone other than Christ Jesus,Or hear them preaching anything other than Christ and Him cruicified,What does it matter if they think healing is not for today,Let them ask God Himself.
What if someone wants to live for christ and go to church on Saturday instead of sunday,Let them ask God Himself,If I want to go to church on thursday, I personally dont think God will have a problem with it.
But what I do see God having a problem with folx passin judgement on eachother,forcing their laws on one another ,
If Youre female,Dont wear pants ,dont cut your hair,dont preach,or even speak in church.And God forbids jewelery and makeup,
All the while taking advantage of each other in business deals,using tithes to further church projects,buildings etc.instead of feeding the poor and visiting the sick and afflicted.Our widows in this country are thrown into institutions and nursing homes.
What was Sodoms "real "sin?Fornication?Homosexuality?
Let me show you something..................

Eze 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Which one was the least and last mentioned?looks to me like the only one mentioned by most churches is the last one in the list.
And Not to mention that Sodom was Jerusalems SISTER!
ever hear that taught in church?
You may have, but for the most part you hardly ever hear it.Matter of fact I've met preachers and teachers that dont understand the signifigance of that statement!
If Sodom was Jerusalems sister then She 'that city'Was in the same covenant as Jerusalem.Under the same laws and rules.
And through Christs' blood and only His blood are we included in that covenant,Not in word but in deed,through crucifixion,And we augh crucify our flesh and treat each other with the self same respect as we expect.
Patience in teaching is paramount! If you dont have the patience to sit in a oom with a 4 yearold without going off the hook and threatoning to pull your hair out if you cant get out of that room ,You have no buisinss trying to teach anything.If you argue with a kinderguardner over which color of crayon would look best in a picture of a dog,You haave no business teaching anything.What does it matter if the dog is blue?Its still a dog!And they'll learn that dogs aint really bright blue with purple polkadots.
Denominations, to me ,are just as trivial .If you feel that working isnt nessesary to show faith,or you feel that works and faith go hand in hand,Praise God!
Sit back and watch those that work do their work and let your faith shine!
But dont sit there and critisize their work while you are sitin there!
I'm inclined to believe like Brothers Baruch and BLC,That time is short,
But its too short to be found bickering about basics of scripture,and not fighting the real opponent.
The true opponent is ourselves!
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. (and following verses)
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

(read this whole chapter)
2Co 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

carpetmanswife · May 11, 2009

1 corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal:for whereas there is among you envying ,and strife, and divisions,are ye not carnal and walk as men? 1 corinthians 3:4 For one saith I am of Paul; and another , I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? I believe that people from every denomination will be in heaven not any one denimination has it all right. We read ,study, and are led by whom we believe to be the Holy Spirit to interpet any given scripture . One interpets it one way , and another ,, another way. So of course we believe ourselves to be right but knowing we cant all be right ,someone is wrong ,let God lead us and certainly let God sort the wheat from the tares . Let us work out our own salvation with fear and trembling .For it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure .Let all things be done without mumurings and disputings.phil. 2:12-14 *just my thoughts *

BLC · May 11, 2009

Quote: 'And Not to mention that Sodom was Jerusalems SISTER!
ever hear that taught in church'?

NoahsDad,

Happy Mother's Day to your wife, mother and mother-in-law. I appreciate what you have to say in your post as well as others. There is something that I would like to respond to in relationship to your comments on (Eze 16). I have studied this subject extensively over the years and have been able to learn much. The NT commentary on this subject is primarily located in (Rom 1). I went and did an exegetic study of this chapter and was amazed at what I found. I am going to simplify this by saying that God spoke of no other group of people in the NT as He did about those referred to in (Rom 1).

Many have heard some ask or comment that those who practice same-sex relationships are inclined that way from birth or from an early age. Some have acclimated in that direction later in life and others have effeminate tendencies that for some have led into it and others it has not. Those that are self claimed and engage in that activity of the flesh are exactly what they claim to be. The are what they are, not because they were born with the genetic makeup or predisposition but because God has given them over to it, to live that way because of the lust that is in their heart. Unfortunately, God has given many over to uncleanness at an early age, first male and then female, to do that which is unseemly.

Later, God gives them over to vile affections and finally to a reprobate mind, where they have been disapproved and rejected by God because their every thought and imagination have been corrupted by their practice. What makes this chapter in Romans unique is that it is dealing the fruit of iniquity. Iniquity is the practice and rejection of all established authority that has come from God. This was the great problem of Lucifer, who was perfect until God had found iniquity in him (Eze 28:15). You will always find a great resistance and rebellion within their midst, against any and all forms of authority but especially in the realm of God's creation and the order of His creation. The headship of God's order in creating the man first, and after the fall, making the man head over the woman is resisted, rejected, mocked and despised by their lifestyle. This confusion has led them to take the natural use of men and woman and have burned in their lusts toward one another.

I'll stop here, but I believe that any Spirit-filled believer who loves God and seeks His righteousness will testify that these things are true concerning (Romans 1). Those that disagree are on their own with God and will have to give their own account to Him. Are we to love them and give them the gospel, Yes! However, they have been classified by God's word in the NT and God is very clear about their state of mind and what He has done with them. That is why we are to warn the wicked in hopes that they will turn and be saved. A warning is another form of the love of God that is backed and supported by the authority of God's justice. Do you know of any other group of individuals that can live in sin against the authority of God and the institution of marriage and whose rights to live that way are protected by a constitution of the land that they reside? May we never become a land that is filled with judges and positions of authority that are of this persuasion. If that ever comes to pass, we will know that our land has been given over and rejected by God. I pray that our pulpits will be hot and motivated by God to preach the truth and tell it like it is without compromise or lukewarmness. We as believers are the only ambassadors for Christ that represent the love and authority of God's word and His righteousness on the earth. May we be faithful to that calling.

BLC · May 11, 2009

We live in an age and time that everything that is said, no matter by what authority is it spoken, someone is going to challenge it and others are going to say, that you really can't be sure because it is not really clear, so why bother to try and get it right. Has the law of God's word come to that among God's people? Is it pride and arrogance to be convinced of the truth? Is it erring and a fruitless endeavor to get God's word right and keep it right on every subject possible? God does not change so why should His truth change? Are we to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ or not? Jesus Christ is the word made flesh, can we separate the word of God from who Christ is?

We don't follow our heart, we follow God with all our heart. Every word of God is pure (Prov 30:5). We continue in purity through the word. We are sanctified (set apart) by the word unto truth (John 17:17). The Holy Spirit needs the word to guide us into truth not error (John 16:13, 1Jn 4:6). We all have the same Spirit that reveals the same truth in us. If it's not the same truth, then it's not the same Spirit. If my love toward my brother is not according to the truth then the best I have to offer my brother is human love. Human love is not God's love. We are to walk in (agape) love as Christ has loved us (Eph 5:2). Peter was asked (3) times by the LORD if he loved Him and Peter responded (3) times with human love. Peter was not converted yet and could only love the LORD with human love (phileo). Peter needed more of God's word and truth in his heart, just to be able to love Christ with the same love that he had received from Him.

We all have a testimony of God's grace and what He has done for us. But we never substitute our testimony or temper God's truth with our experience? That is what carnal believers do and we are to grow up and live by every word from God's mouth, from faith to faith. God will judge us according to the truth we live by and not according to our experience. The promises of God come by faith and not by wishful thinking through some moral virtue.

NoahsDad · May 11, 2009

[QUOTEWe don't follow our heart, we follow God with all our heart. Every word of God is pure (Prov 30:5). We continue in purity through the word. We are sanctified (set apart) by the word unto truth (John 17:17). The Holy Spirit needs the word to guide us into truth not error (John 16:13, 1Jn 4:6). We all have the same Spirit that reveals the same truth in us.][/QUOTE]
Welp sir,I've had many blue polkadoted dog on my refrigerator over the years,But over time I got the color right.
But God never beat me up nor sent anyone to smack me on the head with a brick to get it right.Nor did He feel the need to send anyone to talk down to me for my coloring skills.
(Heres one of my "Blue Dogs"____________I used to think(when I first started to study in depth the bible in hebrew,That Adam was like a metephore of the first preacher,You know the tilling the stony soil of the heart etc.And Eve was the symbolic meaning of the first church.And the first sin was worshiping the false Christ,seeking earthly knowledge instead of the true tree of life that was in the middle of the garden.)
You are right indeed that the same Holy Spirit that teaches you the truth is the self same Spirit that teaches me and every other studying christian.But do we beat the less learned ones into submission till they see things our way like(forgive the illustration) Angry nuns with rulers on the palms of our students?Or do we practice Agape(.
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.
Thayer Definition:
1) brotherly love, affection, good will, love, benevolence
2) love feasts)and feed Gods people with the manah that He has provided.
You know there are teens and new christians that read these posts.and quite frankly I'm asamed at most of us learned elders,after reading some threads.

So on to this comment,I know very well what God sais about these folx and what is the nature of the danger to their souls.But have you ever had the joy of seeing one of these people returned back to the Father and the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ,and know for deffinate sure they were truely turned around and saved?And did you get them there by beating them over the head with scripture after scripture over and over again ,with threats of going to hell?
Welp about 2 years ago I had the pleasure of seeing one of these that are so hell bound ,returned to Christ,through patience in teaching and love,not with judgemental love telling them they were going to hell,but telling them that there is a God that loves them deeply and no amount of temporal lusts or satisfaction will ever give them the peace they search for.My mom talked that guy to God,Taught him and descipled him,only to become frusterated with the very people that she sent him to for guidence,The Church,It seemed that everywhere he turned to go to church that he was shunned and outcast.So she sent him to the church that I was deacon over,He had some odd Ideas let me tell you.But with patience and time he started to see,We didnt have to beat him over the head,but it was kinda like watchin my son take his first steps and then the trrible 2's seeing what he could get away with ya know?I agree with you guys,on the fact that discipline is in need at times,But at the end comes forgivness aswell.
Gentle guidence with patience goes a long way.
Anyway long story short the guy died,at 37-38 years old, very young,But I know that he is with Our Father.And has peace now ,Praise be to God.
Holla

NoahsDad · May 11, 2009

Merryheart said:

thanx mer.
glad some body got it.........

NoahsDad · May 11, 2009

carpetmanswife said:

1 corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal:for whereas there is among you envying ,and strife, and divisions,are ye not carnal and walk as men? 1 corinthians 3:4 For one saith I am of Paul; and another , I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? I believe that people from every denomination will be in heaven not any one denimination has it all right. We read ,study, and are led by whom we believe to be the Holy Spirit to interpet any given scripture . One interpets it one way , and another ,, another way. So of course we believe ourselves to be right but knowing we cant all be right ,someone is wrong ,let God lead us and certainly let God sort the wheat from the tares . Let us work out our own salvation with fear and trembling .For it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure .Let all things be done without mumurings and disputings.phil. 2:12-14 *just my thoughts *

good point CMW

Kakashi · May 11, 2009

NoahsDad said:

Welp sir,I've had many blue polkadoted dog on my refrigerator over the years,But over time I got the color right.
But God never beat me up nor sent anyone to smack me on the head with a brick to get it right.Nor did He feel the need to send anyone to talk down to me for my coloring skills.
(Heres one of my "Blue Dogs"____________I used to think(when I first started to study in depth the bible in hebrew,That Adam was like a metephore of the first preacher,You know the tilling the stony soil of the heart etc.And Eve was the symbolic meaning of the first church.And the first sin was worshiping the false Christ,seeking earthly knowledge instead of the true tree of life that was in the middle of the garden.)
You are right indeed that the same Holy Spirit that teaches you the truth is the self same Spirit that teaches me and every other studying christian.But do we beat the less learned ones into submission till they see things our way like(forgive the illustration) Angry nuns with rulers on the palms of our students?Or do we practice Agape(.
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.
Thayer Definition:
1) brotherly love, affection, good will, love, benevolence
2) love feasts)and feed Gods people with the manah that He has provided.
You know there are teens and new christians that read these posts.and quite frankly I'm asamed at most of us learned elders,after reading some threads.
So on to this comment,I know very well what God sais about these folx and what is the nature of the danger to their souls.But have you ever had the joy of seeing one of these people returned back to the Father and the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ,and know for deffinate sure they were truely turned around and saved?And did you get them there by beating them over the head with scripture after scripture over and over again ,with threats of going to hell?
Welp about 2 years ago I had the pleasure of seeing one of these that are so hell bound ,returned to Christ,through patience in teaching and love,not with judgemental love telling them they were going to hell,but telling them that there is a God that loves them deeply and no amount of temporal lusts or satisfaction will ever give them the peace they search for.My mom talked that guy to God,Taught him and descipled him,only to become frusterated with the very people that she sent him to for guidence,The Church,It seemed that everywhere he turned to go to church that he was shunned and outcast.So she sent him to the church that I was deacon over,He had some odd Ideas let me tell you.But with patience and time he started to see,We didnt have to beat him over the head,but it was kinda like watchin my son take his first steps and then the trrible 2's seeing what he could get away with ya know?I agree with you guys,on the fact that discipline is in need at times,But at the end comes forgivness aswell.
Gentle guidence with patience goes a long way.
Anyway long story short the guy died,at 37-38 years old, very young,But I know that he is with Our Father.And has peace now ,Praise be to God.
Holla[/quote]

This, all of this. i never came to know Christ because people beat me down because i was wrong. They warned me, but never beat me. i was guided with strong words, but with a gentle tone. My father never MADE me read the bible. All he did was time to time tell that I needed to and that it was important to. That's all. No hell bound speech, no tight leash. He LOVED and still still does LOVE me. i saw through is actions his love and i emulated that. Through that, I knew that there was something to the bible that contained wisdom and the right way to to live.

You want to tell people about Christ and show them the errors of their ways? Then live out your life in purity and love towards those people and they will see Christ up close and the words you speak to them will have endless amounts of influence on them rather than right out rebuking.Especially strangers. I'm still for preaching truth obviously, but we also still need to build relationships. We can't do that if the church is eating and clawing at itself every chance it gets. No one would look in here and say " man i want a piece of that" They'd just see endless strife and bickering. " A house dividing against itself, cannot stand!"

Also, side note, i didn't think I'd see a thank you thread lol. God love ya Noahsdad for speaking from your heart honestly!!

LynnJ · May 11, 2009

Kakashi said:

This, all of this. i never came to know Christ because people beat me down because i was wrong. They warned me, but never beat me. i was guided with strong words, but with a gentle tone. My father never MADE me read the bible. All he did was time to time tell that I needed to and that it was important to. That's all. No hell bound speech, no tight leash. He LOVED and still still does LOVE me. i saw through is actions his love and i emulated that. Through that, I knew that there was something to the bible that contained wisdom and the right way to to live.

You want to tell people about Christ and show them the errors of their ways? Then live out your life in purity and love towards those people and they will see Christ up close and the words you speak to them will have endless amounts of influence on them rather than right out rebuking.Especially strangers. I'm still for preaching truth obviously, but we also still need to build relationships. We can't do that if the church is eating and clawing at itself every chance it gets. No one would look in here and say " man i want a piece of that" They'd just see endless strife and bickering. " A house dividing against itself, cannot stand!"!

Well said, Kakashi. Thank you.

BLC · May 12, 2009

How many of you actually believe and practice warning others? You have a young child and you warn them not to touch the burner or they will get burned. We are warned not to stay out in the hot sun or we can get severely burned, dehydrated or have other complications. We are warned to stay away from eating lots of fatty and high cholesterol foods or we could suffer from heart problems down the road. We are warned to get plenty of rest when we are sick or it could get worse. We warn our children not to talk with strangers. We warn people not to drive when they are drunk because of what might happen. We are warned to have safe and protected sex because of STDs and the possibility of unwanted pregnancies (abstinence is best till marriage). We are warned not to go outside when their is lightning in the sky. We warn our children to dress warmly when it is cold or they might get sick. We warn our kids not to do drugs and hang out with the wrong crowd because that could lead to trouble. How many of the (10) commandments are warnings? If we disobey there are consequences. We warn people that certain foods must be cooked or you will get sick. We teach and warn our kids not to walk out in the middle of traffic. We point to what certain people do and the way they live and warn our sons and daughters to not grow up that way. We are warned to stay away from rabid animals. I could go on and on and many of you could also. Our lives are filled with warnings.

The scriptures are full of warnings from Genesis to Revelations. In (Gen 2 :17) God warned Adam, when he was perfect and without sin, not to eat of the tree of knowledge or he would die? In (Rev 22:18,19) we are warned if any man add to or take away from the prophesy of this book, God would add to them the plagues written therein or take away his portion out of the book of life, the holy city and from the things written in this book. Much of our LORD's teaching was filled with warnings, especially about the doctrine and road signs of hell and eternal ****ation (over 200 times) and He preached everywhere.

With all these warnings being a constant part of our life, with our families, our neighbors, our decision making process and all our relationships and we have a problem with warning others about the the path and road they are taking that leads to destruction. John the Baptist called it like it was with Herod and got his head chopped off. Stephen warned the Jews in (Acts 7) and got stoned to death for it. Can anyone point out the love in his message that so many of you bet your life upon, that won over the hearts of those Jews? How many times did Paul get stoned and have continued problems because of his warnings. Everywhere they went their words of warning were being opposed.

Have we forgotten (Col 1:28) 'Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus' -or- Acts 20:31 'Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears'.

Is warning not part of the gospel that we are to preach to every creature? What about (Heb 11:7),

'By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith'.

Don't the scriptures testify that as is was in the days of Noah and Lot ... Luke 17:26-30 'And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed'.

Are these scriptures not worthy of our consideration and heed? If we ignore these scriptures will God require them of us? Noah was a preacher of righteousness and spent (40) years warning the people while he was preparing the ark. Lot was also a just man but did not warn those in Sodom and they were destroyed. These are just some of the scriptures that are given to us, not to condemn others but to be stirred us up with the urgency of the Holy Spirit because of the times that we live in. We will still love people and minister grace and not beat them over the head and preach Christ and Him crucified. We will comfort others and bear their burdens and build them up in Christ. We will still lay our lives down for one another and when our brother sins we will wash his feet so he can be restored in his walk with God. no matter what the sin. The blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin.

Kakashi · May 12, 2009

BLC said:

How many of you actually believe and practice warning others? You have a young child and you warn them not to touch the burner or they will get burned. We are warned not to stay out in the hot sun or we can get severely burned, dehydrated or have other complications. We are warned to stay away from eating lots of fatty and high cholesterol foods or we could suffer from heart problems down the road. We are warned to get plenty of rest when we are sick or it could get worse. We warn our children not to talk with strangers. We warn people not to drive when they are drunk because of what might happen. We are warned to have safe and protected sex because of STDs and the possibility of unwanted pregnancies (abstinence is best till marriage). We are warned not to go outside when their is lightning in the sky. We warn our children to dress warmly when it is cold or they might get sick. We warn our kids not to do drugs and hang out with the wrong crowd because that could lead to trouble. How many of the (10) commandments are warnings? If we disobey there are consequences. We warn people that certain foods must be cooked or you will get sick. We teach and warn our kids not to walk out in the middle of traffic. We point to what certain people do and the way they live and warn our sons and daughters to not grow up that way. We are warned to stay away from rabid animals. I could go on and on and many of you could also. Our lives are filled with warnings.

The scriptures are full of warnings from Genesis to Revelations. In (Gen 2 :17) God warned Adam, when he was perfect and without sin, not to eat of the tree of knowledge or he would die? In (Rev 22:18,19) we are warned if any man add to or take away from the prophesy of this book, God would add to them the plagues written therein or take away his portion out of the book of life, the holy city and from the things written in this book. Much of our LORD's teaching was filled with warnings, especially about the doctrine and road signs of hell and eternal ****ation (over 200 times) and He preached everywhere.

With all these warnings being a constant part of our life, with our families, our neighbors, our decision making process and all our relationships and we have a problem with warning others about the the path and road they are taking that leads to destruction. John the Baptist called it like it was with Herod and got his head chopped off. Stephen warned the Jews in (Acts 7) and got stoned to death for it. Can anyone point out the love in his message that so many of you bet your life upon, that won over the hearts of those Jews? How many times did Paul get stoned and have continued problems because of his warnings. Everywhere they went their words of warning were being opposed.

Have we forgotten (Col 1:28) 'Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus' -or- Acts 20:31 'Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears'.

Is warning not part of the gospel that we are to preach to every creature? What about (Heb 11:7),

'By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith'.

Don't the scriptures testify that as is was in the days of Noah and Lot ... Luke 17:26-30 'And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed'.

Are these scriptures not worthy of our consideration and heed? If we ignore these scriptures will God require them of us? Noah was a preacher of righteousness and spent (40) years warning the people while he was preparing the ark. Lot was also a just man but did not warn those in Sodom and they were destroyed. These are just some of the scriptures that are given to us, not to condemn others but to be stirred us up with the urgency of the Holy Spirit because of the times that we live in. We will still love people and minister grace and not beat them over the head and preach Christ and Him crucified. We will comfort others and bear their burdens and build them up in Christ. We will still lay our lives down for one another and when our brother sins we will wash his feet so he can be restored in his walk with God. no matter what the sin. The blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin.

I saw not one person who was against warning people. it's merely the mode by which you do it is what is being contested.

BLC · May 12, 2009

Kakashi,

It hard to argue with conviction. Somehow you have to discredit the messanger to keep from humbling yourself to what you know is right. Try submitting to what was said instead of resisting it. It may profit you and help you grow in Christ because it could be from the Holy Spirit. It is okay to submit to one another in the fear of God without having to save face.

BLC · May 12, 2009

Quote: 'But have you ever had the joy of seeing one of these people returned back to the Father and the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ,and know for definite sure they were truly turned around and saved'?

I have witnessed some, usually they were younger rather than older (35 and under), but there was such a stronghold in their life. I have won a few to Christ right on the streets of some major cities in the Northeast. Some got married to the opposite sex and others remained single. One young man had such a problem with it, that he literally tried to put his eye out because it offended him. It was not because of the teaching but because of his condition and impression. We loved him, we prayed for him and had compassion on him to get him the help he needed. There was a pastor, who was a West Point graduate, who had a church and had been married for(10) years with (2) children, who one day left his wife and hooked up with another married man. We could not win him back. The mystery of iniquity. As far as we knew they had made a decision to follow the LORD but some 70% of them that I had knowledge of, had a problem with authority and were unhappy with their live.

There were (3) couples that we lovingly edified and encourage for several years, but had later went back because of this wicked tendency that was such a stronghold. They made provisions for these tendencies of the flesh and never let the cross crucify them experientially. I saw this happen with my own eyes and no one beat them over the head and shoved the Bible down their throat, but there was conviction through the word of God and every opportunity to get victory, but they refused the hand of God. Those that did get victory, you would never know that they had a problem and they are going strong in God's grace even today. One rejected the authority of grace and truth and the cross, while the other received that authority and got total victory. Yes, the warnings were there. Yes, the love and compassion was there. Yes, the conviction was there. Yes, the lay down life was there and the washing of the feet. Could those that refused God's grace have gotten victory? Yes they could have because it was always available to them.

Abing · May 12, 2009

wow i never noticed this thread.. but so glad i did today hehe,

Kakashi · May 12, 2009

BLC said:

Could this not be said of yourself as well? I submit myself to God and His Word and teachings according to His Word which line up with the life of Christ. If I suspect something that does not line up with tha, then it is natural for a person to resist....just as you are doing with everyone who argues against your points. We're both doing the same thing, just going about it differently

You can't end every discussion with " Well, you should see things my way and not resist because what i say may be from the spirit" because that totally invalidates anything anyopne has to say. It's that EXACT type of attitude which begins this thread to begin with! Love towards a brother does include rebuking and warning, but it also has to give a brother respect and a fair chance to respond and actually talk with that person like as an adult,not like a child.

I think the thread I posted below about Oswald Chambers message touches on a lot of this.

EDIT: ABING!!! How are you, I havn't talked to you in quite some time ^_^

BLC · May 12, 2009

Quote; 'Could this not be said of yourself as well? I submit myself to God and His Word and teachings according to His Word which line up with the life of Christ. If I suspect something that does not line up with that, then it is natural for a person to resist'...

Then, tell me the things that I have said that do not line up according to His word and the life of Christ, that you resist. I will keep in mind what (Eph 5:21) teaches. Is that fair enough? But, if you have nothing, then you are being critical and a troublemaker because you do not like how things are being presented according to your preference and that of others. You have a wide open door and if you fail to go through it, then perhaps you should go on to something else.

Kakashi · May 12, 2009

BLC said:

Everything I said before in this thread and the other thread represent what I'm trying to say. I'm not being a trouble maker,but it's just that when I see a lack of love, to me, that goes against what Christ and the disciples taught. is it my preference? Yes, yes it is, but that preference is based on the Word in it's entirety. There needs to be a balance of firmness and love in all humbleness.

I'm not quite sure what you meant by the last part of your post.

Abing · May 12, 2009

Kakashi said:

Could this not be said of yourself as well? I submit myself to God and His Word and teachings according to His Word which line up with the life of Christ. If I suspect something that does not line up with tha, then it is natural for a person to resist....just as you are doing with everyone who argues against your points. We're both doing the same thing, just going about it differently

You can't end every discussion with " Well, you should see things my way and not resist because what i say may be from the spirit" because that totally invalidates anything anyopne has to say. It's that EXACT type of attitude which begins this thread to begin with! Love towards a brother does include rebuking and warning, but it also has to give a brother respect and a fair chance to respond and actually talk with that person like as an adult,not like a child.

I think the thread I posted below about Oswald Chambers message touches on a lot of this.

EDIT: ABING!!! How are you, I havn't talked to you in quite some time ^_^

out of topic: heyyyy!!! kak! lol. i always see you on facebook tho hehe, with all those status msgs haha

NoahsDad · May 12, 2009

BLC said:

well here's one point I stand on when it comes to my christian brothers and sisters (At Times)But discernment is needed aswell,Good discernment of a situation and wisdom are called for in many different situations............
Mar 6:46 And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray.
Mar 6:47 And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land.
Mar 6:48 And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.
Mar 6:49 But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:
You see?
If they hadnt called out,Jesus would have passed by them!!!!
He Saw them tioling!He saw their trouble ,But for some reason He waited till they freaked out befor He told them who He was.
I think this is a lesson in teaching followers (Not the World)But fellow workers in the faith.
New christians aswell as older ones,Just so you arent interfiering and even tho your intentions are wellmeaning the may be taken wrong or your work may be in vein.
I ofttimes find myself in situations like this at work,It kinda bothers me ,Well it REALLY buggs the hound dog outa me to see someone squareing a box frame with a framing square or doing a handrail wrong and taking forEVER!!!!!! So I cant help but offer some advise,Most guys get cheesed off and throw stuff,Seriously!!!!And I dont say it mean or rude Im just offering help,But sometimes folx dont want help,So I wait NOW,But its taken me a while to get the hint ya know?
And sometimes teaching fellow believers are like that too,Even tho we are to walk in humility and submission,if we feel we dont need help it grates our last nerve,and the one ever how friendly they may say it ,come off as "holyer than thou art attitudes"
But I dont claim to have all the witnesing information .nor do I always have the best discernment of a situation,I,m just telling you some of my trial and error lessons ya know.?
I know you aint asked for my advise,But I thaught this thaught was kool,And I read through the tread first.
But warnings are nessesary,and called for if a brother or sister has fallen and decieved,But also one must keep this in mind while doing it
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness;(
praotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) gentleness, mildness, meekness &
praotēs
prah-ot'-ace
From G4235; gentleness; by implication humility: - meekness.
considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden

roaringkitten · May 13, 2009

I think BLC made a great point. I am more concerned about people believing the correct gospel. Which has been my main point all along. When I compare people's testimony to the Scriptures and they do not line up with the Word(Isaiah 8:20), especially concerning salvation, I will warn them! Not because I like making people mad, but because I want to correct them out of concern in my heart for them! satan is a master of SUBTLE deceit(2 Corinthians 11:3-4, Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12, Matthew 24:24). Many Christians just cant discern it or wont expose anything, because we're too busy worrying about offending someone. I know I have offended many for taking a stand against false doctrine. I hate having to offend people, but sometimes that just happens when speaking the truth....Christianity today is in dire need of more Christians who are willing to lose their reputations for telling the truth. I have already been called a fool, a liar, a satanic messenger, a divider, a biggest threat to Christianity..I can relate to this verse very well:

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" Galatians 4:16

There are many topics that are negotiable, salvation is not. There is much evidence that there is deceit in the charismatic movement. And I have already provided Scriptural proof.
But I will follow the Lord over the opinions of man(John 12:42-43) and continue to expose false doctrines. I do this out of concern and love for my brethren. Sorry if you cant see it!

THANK YOU

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