The 10 horns in the book of daniel

[journey41]

The 10 horns in the book of Daniel (7:7) corresponds with the 10 toes of the last kingdom of mankind on earth (Daniel 2:42-43) and it corresponds with the 10 kings in the book of Rev 17:16

The 10 horned beast in the book of Rev 13 that came out of the sea and the 2 horned beast that came out of the earth corresponds with the 10 horns in the book of Daniel and later the little horn came out (later)

And in rev 13 the 10 horned beast came first out of the sea, then the 2 horned beast came out of the earth. It is this 2 horned beast that causes man to recieve a mark on the right hand.

In Rev 19:20 the 10 horned beast was cast into the lake of fire and with him the false prophet which caused the world to recieve the mark. So the 2 horned beast is the false prophet.

 

[peterT]

The 10 horns in the book of Daniel (7:7) corresponds with the 10 toes of the last kingdom of mankind on earth (Daniel 2:42-43) and it corresponds with the 10 kings in the book of Rev 17:16

The 10 horned beast in the book of Rev 13 that came out of the sea and the 2 horned beast that came out of the earth corresponds with the 10 horns in the book of Daniel and later the little horn came out (later)

And in rev 13 the 10 horned beast came first out of the sea, then the 2 horned beast came out of the earth. It is this 2 horned beast that causes man to recieve a mark on the right hand.

In Rev 19:20 the 10 horned beast was cast into the lake of fire and with him the false prophet which caused the world to recieve the mark. So the 2 horned beast is the false prophet.

Amen. But some would have you think different.

 

[Laodicea]

The 10 horns in the book of Daniel (7:7) corresponds with the 10 toes of the last kingdom of mankind on earth (Daniel 2:42-43) and it corresponds with the 10 kings in the book of Rev 17:16

The 10 horned beast in the book of Rev 13 that came out of the sea and the 2 horned beast that came out of the earth corresponds with the 10 horns in the book of Daniel and later the little horn came out (later)

And in rev 13 the 10 horned beast came first out of the sea, then the 2 horned beast came out of the earth. It is this 2 horned beast that causes man to recieve a mark on the right hand.

In Rev 19:20 the 10 horned beast was cast into the lake of fire and with him the false prophet which caused the world to recieve the mark. So the 2 horned beast is the false prophet.

It is good to start in Daniel 2 we have in there

Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome
Divded Rome
God's kingdom

Note that there was no gap between Babylon and Medo-Persia, no gap between Medo-Persia and Greece, no gap between Greece and Rome, so because of that we must continue to follow that rule there was no gap between Rome and divided Rome. Rome fell in 476AD so at that time we should see Rome divided into ten parts.

 

[journey41]

It is good to start in Daniel 2 we have in there

Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome
Divded Rome
God's kingdom

Note that there was no gap between Babylon and Medo-Persia, no gap between Medo-Persia and Greece, no gap between Greece and Rome, so because of that we must continue to follow that rule there was no gap between Rome and divided Rome. Rome fell in 476AD so at that time we should see Rome divided into ten parts.

If the 10 parts corresponds with the 10 toes of the image, why are we still here? For the 10 toes are supposed to be the end of all mans kingdoms on earth.

I like to stress the point that the 10 toes is the end kingdom existing at the 2 coming of Christ. Not forgetting Christs first coming is not to judge, but to give light to the world. His second coming is to judge with a great judgement.

Are you also saying that the 10 kingdoms of Rome was cast into the lake of fire?

Daniel 7: 11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words that the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame (lake of fire)

Rev 19:20 And the beast(10 horn beast Dan 7:7) was taken and also with him the false prophet(the little horn with eyes and a mouth Dan 7:7) that wrought miracles before him with which he decieved them that had recieved the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This means its the end of the beasts. Gone. But you say that it's carrying on for another 2 1/2 thousand years.

 

[journey41]

It is good to start in Daniel 2 we have in there

Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome
Divded Rome
God's kingdom

Note that there was no gap between Babylon and Medo-Persia, no gap between Medo-Persia and Greece, no gap between Greece and Rome, so because of that we must continue to follow that rule there was no gap between Rome and divided Rome. Rome fell in 476AD so at that time we should see Rome divided into ten parts.

I quite dont understand what you man by gaps? Babylon is conquered by Medo/Persia. Medo/Persia is conquered by Greece. The Grecian empire was divided into four and they were warring each other,
and finally Greece and Rome merged into each other and became the Roman empire.


And the Roman empire continued up to today. We are living at the feet of the Roman empire right now. A mixed people and it will continue on to the toes, the 10 toes, which also is a mixed people that work together but cannot cling together. In the days of this kingdom the rock that is cut out of a mountain in heaven that was cut out without hands is going to destroy this final kingdom of mankind on this earth.


Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings (10 toes/10 horns/10 kings) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom.


Rev 17:16 And the 10 horns which thou sawest upon the beast (10 horn beast Dan 7:7) These shall hate the whore (spiritual woman/babylon the great where there is lying, decieving, cheating, whoring, oppressing the poor, power hungry, greed etc etc)

This is happening at this minute where the 10 horns is purposely destroying, corrupting the system & bankrupting the whole economy. Also the wars, all by their design.

Even the wars, Lybia, Syria, is all by them. War by design.

This is a time when the great Rock in Dan ch7 will come down and destroy, and they will be cast alive in the lake of fire.

The beast with the 10 horns, is not a human walking around with 10 horns on his head, no...... beasts are always interpreted as empires or kingdoms. So this great empire in the last days will be cast into the lake of fire. The 10 leaders will be cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet.

 

[WordGaurdian]

The 10 horns in the book of Daniel (7:7) corresponds with the 10 toes of the last kingdom of mankind on earth (Daniel 2:42-43) and it corresponds with the 10 kings in the book of Rev 17:16

The 10 horned beast in the book of Rev 13 that came out of the sea and the 2 horned beast that came out of the earth corresponds with the 10 horns in the book of Daniel and later the little horn came out (later)

And in rev 13 the 10 horned beast came first out of the sea, then the 2 horned beast came out of the earth. It is this 2 horned beast that causes man to recieve a mark on the right hand.

In Rev 19:20 the 10 horned beast was cast into the lake of fire and with him the false prophet which caused the world to recieve the mark. So the 2 horned beast is the false prophet.

doesn't NASA just make it SO easy...

Planetary Names: Planet and Satellite Names and Discoverers

 

[Laodicea]

If the 10 parts corresponds with the 10 toes of the image, why are we still here? For the 10 toes are supposed to be the end of all mans kingdoms on earth.

I like to stress the point that the 10 toes is the end kingdom existing at the 2 coming of Christ. Not forgetting Christs first coming is not to judge, but to give light to the world. His second coming is to judge with a great judgement.

Are you also saying that the 10 kingdoms of Rome was cast into the lake of fire?

Daniel 7: 11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words that the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame (lake of fire)

Rev 19:20 And the beast(10 horn beast Dan 7:7) was taken and also with him the false prophet(the little horn with eyes and a mouth Dan 7:7) that wrought miracles before him with which he decieved them that had recieved the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This means its the end of the beasts. Gone. But you say that it's carrying on for another 2 1/2 thousand years.

In 476 AD Rome (Pagan) was broken up into 10 parts
Rome divided into ten parts 476 AD. The following chart lists the original kingdoms and their modern successors:
1. Anglo-Saxons-England
2. Franks-France
3. Alemanni-Germany
4. Burgundians-Switzerland
5. Lombards-Italy
6. Visigoths-Spain
7. Suevi-Portugal
8. Ostrogoths-Disappeared from history
9. Vandals-Disappeared from history
10. Heruli-Disappeared from history

How would these kings try to strengthen themselves?
Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

“They shall intermarry.”
Queen Victoria of England was called The Grand*mother of Europe. In 1914 King George V had 40 cousins among the crowned heads of Europe.
Force was used to unite Europe by Charlemagne, Charles V, Louis XIV, Napoleon, Kaiser, and Hitler.
Napoleon said after his coronation: “There will be no repose in Europe until it is under one head.” “In five years I shall be master of the world.” Taine’s’ Modern Regime’, Vol.1, p. 36. Napoleon left 3,000,000 slain. The snowflakes of Russia and the raindrops at Waterloo ended his days a prisoner.
Kaiser “From childhood I have been under the influence of five men, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Theodoric H, Frederick the Great, and Napoleon. Each of these dreamed a dream of World Empire *they failed. I am dreaming a dream of German World Empire – and my mailed fist shall succeed.”


Many have tried to unite Europe and have all failed, Hitler was told of this prpohecy of Daniel 2 that Europe would never be united but, he set out to prove the Bible wrong and failed, why? Because the Bible said Europe would never be united. Today they are trying to unite Europe with one currency the Euro and it is falling apart the fact that Europe is not being united is fulfilling prophecy.

When pagan Rome fell in 476 AD we should immediately see the 10 kings cause that is how the prophecy goes when a kingdom fell immediately the next arose (no gap)

 

[zone]

Daniel 2
31“You looked, O king, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. 32The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

36“This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

39“After you, another kingdom will rise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.

44“In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

In the time of those kings

Caesar Augustus
Caesar Tiberius
Caesar Caligula
Caesar Claudius
Caesar Nero
Caesar Galba
Caesar Otho
Caesar Vitellius
Caesar Vespasian
Caesar Titus
(10)

Herod AntiPater
Herod the Great
Herod Archelaus
Herod Antipas
Herod Philip
Herod Aristobulus
Herod Agrippa I
(7)

In the time of those kings: in Jesus' lifetime they all lived.


Psalm 118
22The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
23the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes.
24This is the day the Lord has made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.

Isaiah 28:16
So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

Luke 20:17
Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone'?

Acts 4:11
This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.

1 Peter 2:7
Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,"

 

[journey41]

In 476 AD Rome (Pagan) was broken up into 10 parts
Rome divided into ten parts 476 AD. The following chart lists the original kingdoms and their modern successors:
1. Anglo-Saxons-England
2. Franks-France
3. Alemanni-Germany
4. Burgundians-Switzerland
5. Lombards-Italy
6. Visigoths-Spain
7. Suevi-Portugal
8. Ostrogoths-Disappeared from history
9. Vandals-Disappeared from history
10. Heruli-Disappeared from history

The 10 kings you've listed are supposed to be the end of all kingdoms on earth. But your kings were 476AD. The 10 kings are the last kingdom of man on earth.

Daniel 7:11 And I behold even till the beast was slain and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame.


So before the kingdom was set up (Christ's 2nd coming), the burning happened before that, not after. These 10 kings will be thrown into the lake of fire. Then Christ will start his kingdom on earth.


Daniel 2:44 And in the days of the of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and CONSUME all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever

Destruction first, then the setting up of this kingdom.
Not the setting up, then the destruction.
How would these kings try to strengthen themselves?

Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

“They shall intermarry.”
Queen Victoria of England was called The Grand*mother of Europe. In 1914 King George V had 40 cousins among the crowned heads of Europe.
Force was used to unite Europe by Charlemagne, Charles V, Louis XIV, Napoleon, Kaiser, and Hitler.
Napoleon said after his coronation: “There will be no repose in Europe until it is under one head.” “In five years I shall be master of the world.” Taine’s’ Modern Regime’, Vol.1, p. 36. Napoleon left 3,000,000 slain. The snowflakes of Russia and the raindrops at Waterloo ended his days a prisoner.
Kaiser “From childhood I have been under the influence of five men, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Theodoric H, Frederick the Great, and Napoleon. Each of these dreamed a dream of World Empire *they failed. I am dreaming a dream of German World Empire – and my mailed fist shall succeed.”

Many have tried to unite Europe and have all failed, Hitler was told of this prpohecy of Daniel 2 that Europe would never be united but, he set out to prove the Bible wrong and failed, why? Because the Bible said Europe would never be united. Today they are trying to unite Europe with one currency the Euro and it is falling apart the fact that Europe is not being united is fulfilling prophecy.

There is no prophesy saying that Europe will not be united. Europe are the kings of the north. Where does it say that the EU is falling apart? And pretty soon Canada, USA, Mexico are going to unite as well.

It is the economy of some of the european countries that have gone bankrupt. It's not the European Union that has broken up.


Those economy's in Europe that have gone bankrupt have been designed to crumble to make the Union take control. Who bails them out? The International Monetary Fund (EU)

 

[Laodicea]

The 10 kings you've listed are supposed to be the end of all kingdoms on earth. But your kings were 476AD. The 10 kings are the last kingdom of man on earth.

Daniel 7:11 And I behold even till the beast was slain and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame.


So before the kingdom was set up (Christ's 2nd coming), the burning happened before that, not after. These 10 kings will be thrown into the lake of fire. Then Christ will start his kingdom on earth.


Daniel 2:44 And in the days of the of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and CONSUME all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever

Destruction first, then the setting up of this kingdom.
Not the setting up, then the destruction.
How would these kings try to strengthen themselves?



There is no prophesy saying that Europe will not be united. Europe are the kings of the north. Where does it say that the EU is falling apart? And pretty soon Canada, USA, Mexico are going to unite as well.

It is the economy of some of the european countries that have gone bankrupt. It's not the European Union that has broken up.


Those economy's in Europe that have gone bankrupt have been designed to crumble to make the Union take control. Who bails them out? The International Monetary Fund (EU)

Keep watching according to Daniel 2 Europe will never be united under one power. Study Daniel 2 carefully and not with your mind set. Answer these questions.
1) After Babylon fell how long was it before Medo-Persia took over, was it 10 years 50 years or immediately?
2) What about after medo-persia fell, how long was it before Greece took over?
3) What about Greece, how long was it before Rome took over?
4) When did Pagan Rome fall? And according the answers of the previous questions, how long after pagan Rome fell should we see the 10 kings?

 

[zone]

So before the kingdom was set up (Christ's 2nd coming)

you mean Jesus is not King now?
He was not King at the First Advent?
His Kingdom isn't underway now?

Matthew 27:11
Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

Mark 15:2
"Are you the king of the Jews?" asked Pilate. "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

Luke 23:2
And they began to accuse him, saying, "We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Christ, a king."

John 18:37
"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

John 19:12
From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jews kept shouting, "If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar."

John 19:16-22
So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). Here they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.

Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: jesus of nazareth, the king of the jews. Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek. The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”

Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

~

so because some jews rejected the King, the Kingdom was Postponed?
that's what dispensational premillennialism wants us to believe....i wonder why?
MIND THE GAP

Matthew 12:28
New International Version(©1984)
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

New Living Translation(©2007)
But if I am casting out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has arrived among you.

English Standard Version(©2001)
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

New American Standard Bible(©1995)
"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

 

[tribesman]

you mean Jesus is not King now? He was not King at the First Advent? His Kingdom isn't underway now?.

For followers of judaism, and their allies, I guess the answers to these questions must be no.

 

[zone]

For followers of judaism, and their allies, I guess the answers to these questions must be no.

it's pure madness.

~


....dispensationalists teach that there are four gospels to be preached (some have already been preached, and one is being preached in the present age) according to God's plan. Each of these is said to be for a given period of time and great pains are taken to establish the fact that each of these gospels is different from the other three. These four gospels are described on page 1343 of the Scofield Reference Bible. The following is a paraphrased description as given by C.I. Scofield:

1. The gospel of the kingdom. This is the preaching of the good news that God had promised to set up an earthly kingdom. This kingdom was to be political, spiritual, Israelitish, universal; and was to be ruled over by Jesus as the greater Son of David. It was to last one thousand years.
2. The gospel of the grace of God. This is the good news that Jesus died, was buried, and that he rose again. Scofield says that one of the main characteristics of this gospel is that it saves 'wholly apart from forms and ordinances,' the plain implication being that this is not true of some of the other three gospels.
3. The everlasting gospel. This is to be preached by Jews after the church is raptured, but before the beginning of the millennium. Scofield says of this gospel that it is neither the gospel of the kingdom, nor of grace. It is the good news that those who were saved during the 'great tribulation' will enter the millennial reign.
4. That which Paul calls 'my gospel' This is the gospel of grace, but has a fuller development than that preached by Christ and the apostles! Paul has been given new insight into the 'mystery' of the church and this is included in 'Paul's gospel.'

According to this theory of four gospels, the first of them was preached by John the Baptist and by our Lord, until the proffered kingdom was rejected by the Jews and had to be postponed while the church age was ushered in by the death of our Lord on the cross.

After his plan to establish a kingdom was frustrated by the Jews, our Lord changed to the second form of the gospel and began to preach that he would be crucified, buried, and resurrected. This gospel was preached by our Lord during the remainder of his ministry and then by the apostles until the time of Paul.

Upon receiving a fuller revelation concerning the church, which neither Jesus nor any of the other apostles had been permitted to disclose, Paul began to preach number four of the distinctive gospels held by dispensationalism. In other words, what Paul termed 'my gospel' was quite an improvement over that preached by our Lord. This is the same gospel, according to this theory, that we are supposed to preach today. Note, we are not to preach the gospel preached by our Lord, but that which was preached by Paul.

Number three of these gospels will not be preached until after the present 'church age' is ended and the church has been taken out of the world. Then, after the 'everlasting gospel' has been preached and the millennium established, Jewish converts win begin to preach the 'gospel of the kingdom' again. Note that this gospel of the kingdom is the first gospel preached by our Lord, which gospel was rejected and then postponed. Whereas our Lord failed in his presentation of it, the Jewish nation is going to succeed!

In view of the fact that this theory holds to four distinct gospels - each having its own characteristics differing from the others - and in view of the fact that each one is said to bring about salvation, it is difficult indeed to escape a doctrine of four plans of salvation. And this, according to the New Testament, amounts to heresy.

http://www.theologue.org/DispensationalistBeliefs-Salvation-WECox.html

 

[tribesman]

it's pure madness.

~


....dispensationalists teach that there are four gospels to be preached (some have already been preached, and one is being preached in the present age) according to God's plan. Each of these is said to be for a given period of time and great pains are taken to establish the fact that each of these gospels is different from the other three. These four gospels are described on page 1343 of the Scofield Reference Bible. The following is a paraphrased description as given by C.I. Scofield:

1. The gospel of the kingdom. This is the preaching of the good news that God had promised to set up an earthly kingdom. This kingdom was to be political, spiritual, Israelitish, universal; and was to be ruled over by Jesus as the greater Son of David. It was to last one thousand years.
2. The gospel of the grace of God. This is the good news that Jesus died, was buried, and that he rose again. Scofield says that one of the main characteristics of this gospel is that it saves 'wholly apart from forms and ordinances,' the plain implication being that this is not true of some of the other three gospels.
3. The everlasting gospel. This is to be preached by Jews after the church is raptured, but before the beginning of the millennium. Scofield says of this gospel that it is neither the gospel of the kingdom, nor of grace. It is the good news that those who were saved during the 'great tribulation' will enter the millennial reign.
4. That which Paul calls 'my gospel' This is the gospel of grace, but has a fuller development than that preached by Christ and the apostles! Paul has been given new insight into the 'mystery' of the church and this is included in 'Paul's gospel.'

According to this theory of four gospels, the first of them was preached by John the Baptist and by our Lord, until the proffered kingdom was rejected by the Jews and had to be postponed while the church age was ushered in by the death of our Lord on the cross.

After his plan to establish a kingdom was frustrated by the Jews, our Lord changed to the second form of the gospel and began to preach that he would be crucified, buried, and resurrected. This gospel was preached by our Lord during the remainder of his ministry and then by the apostles until the time of Paul.

Upon receiving a fuller revelation concerning the church, which neither Jesus nor any of the other apostles had been permitted to disclose, Paul began to preach number four of the distinctive gospels held by dispensationalism. In other words, what Paul termed 'my gospel' was quite an improvement over that preached by our Lord. This is the same gospel, according to this theory, that we are supposed to preach today. Note, we are not to preach the gospel preached by our Lord, but that which was preached by Paul.

Number three of these gospels will not be preached until after the present 'church age' is ended and the church has been taken out of the world. Then, after the 'everlasting gospel' has been preached and the millennium established, Jewish converts win begin to preach the 'gospel of the kingdom' again. Note that this gospel of the kingdom is the first gospel preached by our Lord, which gospel was rejected and then postponed. Whereas our Lord failed in his presentation of it, the Jewish nation is going to succeed!

In view of the fact that this theory holds to four distinct gospels - each having its own characteristics differing from the others - and in view of the fact that each one is said to bring about salvation, it is difficult indeed to escape a doctrine of four plans of salvation. And this, according to the New Testament, amounts to heresy.

http://www.theologue.org/DispensationalistBeliefs-Salvation-WECox.html

Indeed lunatic. But that old kabbalistic serpent must be happy for it.

 

[zone]

Indeed lunatic. But that old kabbalistic serpent must be happy for it.

The Oral Tradition

In delivering the Torah, Moses was instructed to package its content in two distinct presentations.

“The Written Law”—Torah Shebichtav
“The Oral Tradition”—Torah Shebaal Peh

The Written Law generally refers to the five books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, known as the Torah. Moses himself instituted that the scroll be read regularly in places of worship, and today we read from the Torah four times a week; Shabbat morning, Shabbat afternoon, Monday and Thursday morning. However, the Written Law is somewhat cryptic and requires explanation.

Together with the Written Law, G-d transmitted to Moses an entire Oral tradition which explains every aspect of the Written Law.

Included in the Oral tradition is the Kabbalah, the very same tradition programmed into Adam, received by Abraham and now incorporated into the Torah body. In fact, Moses received four levels of interpretation on every aspect of the Torah.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361876/jewish/The-Oral-Tradition.htm



Mark 7:13
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.

Matthew 16
The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees
5When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread. 6Jesus said to them, “Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 7And they began discussing it among themselves, saying, “We brought no bread.” 8But Jesus, aware of this, said, “O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? 9Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? 10Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? 11How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

John 5
39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41I do not receive glory from people. 42But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? 45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

~ end thread derailment

 

[peterT]

Before Babylon when Daniel had the dream ,there where two other kingdoms.

John lived in the days of the Roman kingdom when he wrote the book of Revelation. So when he said five are fallen, and one is,( he lived in the) “one is” and the other is not yet come in Johns days.

Rv17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space

 

[Raistlin]

Matthew 13

37 > He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man;

38 > The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 > The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 > As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 > The Son of Man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 > And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 > Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Yes Jesus is King.
Yes Jesus has a kingdom.
It is His inheritance from His Father.
BUT He hasn't yet come to claim it yet.

If He is already ruling in His kingdom NOW (amillennialism)....then explain v41.
Amillennialism implies that Jesus can not control His kingdom where: all things that offend, and them which do iniquity dwell even today.

This what they are saying without even realizing. They are denying the power of our Lord implying that these last 2010+ years, Jesus hasn't been able to control His kingdom where all things that offend, and them which do iniquity dwell. Very sloppy reign i'd say by that interpretation.

NO, Amillennialism does not hold the answer. Just confusion.

 

[journey41]

For followers of judaism, and their allies, I guess the answers to these questions must be no.

[/QUOTE]Jesus' Kingdom is not ruling now. Look around. This world is still run by Satan.

Of course Jesus is our King. We worship him in spirit and n truth...but the world.....I think not. When Christ comes he will rule with a rod of iron. He will bring down all the leaders and take their powers & dominion away. He will destroy all their cities, and not one building will be left standing at his coming. Babylon and all her material things, wealth & power will be destroyed in one day.


Your are forgetting that Jesus did not come to judge the first time, but at his 2nd coming there will be judgement then law & order will be established. Not just for the kingdom on earth which is in Israel, but for the outside nations as well.


Jesus will rule in Jerusalem to the Jews who are resurrected (reserved) The saints will be ruling with him......and the outside nations, all those who never knew Christ, who survived, and their children, and their childrens children will learn the truth which comes out of Jerusalem for 1000 years.


I know this may be contrary to what you have been taught because the truth has been suppressed for so long, but if you go to the scriptures you will find the truth in there.


Jeremiah 30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.


Jeremiah 30:24 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.


Jeremiah 31:1 At the same time, saith the Lord, will I be the God of all the families of Israel (the reserved), and they shall be my people.


Jeremiah 31:2 Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword (war) found grace in the wilderness (babylon); even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.

Jeremiah 31:3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love (Israel): therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee.


Jeremiah 31:4 Again, I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.


Jeremiah 31:5 Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat them as common things.


Jeremiah 31:6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen, upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arie ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the Lord our God.


Jeremiah 31:7 For thus saith the Lord; sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O Lord save thy people, the remnant of Israel.


Jeremiah 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country (Israel's reserved survivors), and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together, a great company shall return hither.


Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn.


So if you go back to the beginning of the verses, the Lord comes with a fury and punishes the wicked. This happens at Christ's coming, and at the same time, he will be a God to all the families of Israel. All the families of the reserved which God will bring into the kingdom (in the flesh) and will show them mercy and how to worship through Christ - their new King, Lord and Saviour which they never knew before.

Mercy is not just for the gentiles. It also gets given to Israel once the fullness of the gentiles come in.

 

[zone]

Matthew 13

37 > He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man;

38 > The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 > The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 > As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 > The Son of Man shall send forth His angels,and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 > And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 > Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Yes Jesus is King.
Yes Jesus has a kingdom.
It is His inheritance from His Father.
BUT He hasn't yet come to claim it yet.

If He is already ruling in His kingdom NOW (amillennialism)....then explain v41.
Amillennialism implies that Jesus can not control His kingdom where: all things that offend, and them which do iniquity dwell even today.

This what they are saying without even realizing. They are denying the power of our Lord implying that these last 2010+ years, Jesus hasn't been able to control His kingdom where all things that offend, and them which do iniquity dwell. Very sloppy reign i'd say by that interpretation.

NO, Amillennialism does not hold the answer. Just confusion.

looking for earthly dominion in this age? just like the jews were?
that's where your dispensational scheme came from.

apparently you don't believe things are going exactly according to Plan A. the only plan there ever was.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

Hebrews 11
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

WHAT CITY?

 

[zone]

Jesus' Kingdom is not ruling now. Look around. This world is still run by Satan.

Of course Jesus is our King. We worship him in spirit and n truth...but the world.....I think not. When Christ comes he will rule with a rod of iron..

Acts 13
In Pisidian Antioch
13From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where John left them to return to Jerusalem. 14From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down. 15After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue rulers sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a message of encouragement for the people, please speak.”

16Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Men of Israel and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me! 17The God of the people of Israel chose our fathers; he made the people prosper during their stay in Egypt, with mighty power he led them out of that country, 18he endured their conducta for about forty years in the desert, 19he overthrew seven nations in Canaan and gave their land to his people as their inheritance. 20All this took about 450 years.

“After this, God gave them judges until the time of Samuel the prophet. 21Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin, who ruled forty years. 22After removing Saul, he made David their king. He testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

23“From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised. 24Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel. 25As John was completing his work, he said: ‘Who do you think I am? I am not that one. No, but he is coming after me, whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.’

26“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. 27The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. 28Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30But God raised him from the dead, 31and for many days he was seen by those who had traveled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people.

32“We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers 33he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:

“‘You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.b’c
34The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’d
35So it is stated elsewhere:
“‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’e

36“For when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his fathers and his body decayed. 37But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
38“Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses. 40Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:

41“‘Look, you scoffers,
wonder and perish,
for I am going to do something in your days
that you would never believe,
even if someone told you.’f”

42As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath. 43When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

44On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and talked abusively against what Paul was saying.

46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’i”

48When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

49The word of the Lord spread through the whole region. 50But the Jews incited the God-fearing women of high standing and the leading men of the city. They stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region. 51So they shook the dust from their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium. 52And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

Mercy is not just for the gentiles. It also gets given to Israel once the fullness of the gentiles come in.

1 Corinthians 1:24
but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Romans 1:16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 11:31
so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.

46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.