The Abomination of Desolation

Ahwatukee · Sep 30, 2018

Good day Luigi,

With all due respect, what does the above have to do with the abomination that will be set up in the holy place within the temple. We stick with the immediate scriptures regarding issue.

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"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ i he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak."
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The scriptures that I have posted above are directly relevant to the abomination. It states that it is something that will be "set up" by the antichrist which would infer it as being an object and not a kingdom, nor a man, but an idolatrous image. Below is an excerpt from the definition of the word "Bdelugma" translated "abomination"

"an abominable thing, an accursed thing"
"in the O. T. often used of idols and things pertaining to idolatry, to be held in abomination by the Israelites"

The scriptures that you have provided above, have nothing to do at all with the abomination, but are being forced to do so.

ComeLordJesus · Sep 30, 2018

Tina2018 said:

In Daniel 9:27 I believe overspreading of abominations is still future. "he shall confirm". The antecedent of "he" must be the person last mentioned, that is, "the prince that shall come" (9:26), the one whose "people" had destroyed the city. The context in these verses seems clearly tp preclude any reference to Messiah. This can be none other than the future Antichrist.

luigi · Sep 30, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

Good day Ahwatukke,
My King James version doesn't mention the abomination of desolation standing in a temple; it mentions the abomination that maketh desolate being set up. This means the beast with ten horns/the northern kingdom's system being set up.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, there will be those in the land of Israel who will side with the Northern kingdom in order to set up the vision (Daniel 11:14).

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 11:14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.

Nehemiah6 · Sep 30, 2018

luigi said:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) (Mt 24:15 KJB)

"The holy place" is a very specific term applied to a very specific area of the temple at Jerusalem. And the holy place was divided from the holy of holies (or "most holy place") by a heavy curtain.

Read this article: https://www.gotquestions.org/Most-Holy-Place.html

At the time that Christ gave this prophecy, He had already predicted the destruction of Herod's temple (the second temple) which took place in 70 AD. Which meant that He anticipated a third temple which would be desecrated by the Antichrist.

Hevosmies · Sep 30, 2018

Waggles said:

If this is the abomination of desolation, they would have been escaping Judea for over a millennium now? err. I agree its an abomination but is it THE one thats spoken of by Daniel/Jesus? We should be already in the millennium if that was the case.

Hevosmies · Sep 30, 2018

trofimus said:

Hi bro. What made you stop being a dispensational charismatic? I am a guy in the middle, where I enjoy prophecy and I believe we are in the end times, that I have in common with the dispensationalists, where I depart from them is the idea of such a distinction between church and israel.

The amill churches I have noticed dont really care for prophecy, because they got no answer to it. They dont preach on it, and often sweep it under the rug in a way that "Well no man knows the day nor hour, lets just wait He will show up one day.". Which there is nothing wrong with that view, since they say to live accordingly as well, but isnt that part of the christian life? WATCHING and looking and much of the bible is prophecy.

What the world and the church is going through today is unheard of, thats my honest opinion.

LaJolla · Sep 30, 2018

luigi said:

Thank you for your efforts in reply, Luigi. I will mull over your rational and see what I see. His Peace sustain you.

Ahwatukee · Sep 30, 2018

luigi said:

Hello Luigi,

The KJV is saying the same thing. The abomination being set up in the holy place within the temple, is what causes the desolation, i.e. the emptying of Jerusalem and Judea.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"

Since Jesus is quoting from Dan.9:27, let's look at that scripture:

"And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

The angel speaking with Daniel makes it clear that there will be an abomination set up in the temple by making reference to the daily sacrifice being taken away.

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." - Dan.12:11 (KJV)

Therefore, the setting of the abomination in the holy place within the temple, is what causes the desolation of Jerusalem/Judea, i.e. its being make empty.

As I previously posted, the antichrist/beast himself is not the abomination, but is synonymous with that image that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make in honor of the first beast. It is this image/abomination that will be set up in the temple and which is what Jesus is warning Israel about when they see it set up there where at which time they are to flee out into the wilderness immediately.

Alertandawake · Sep 30, 2018

Concerning the image of the beast, the description given in Rev 13:15, the details match the description of some type of AI robot. The details are in my opinion match a technological advance robot of some type.

When the vision was shown, what was understood to be seen in the time period concerned? A statue that apppeared to be alive?

iamsoandso · Sep 30, 2018

Hevosmies said:

lol, I myself usually say "I'm outside the camps",,, but pretty much mean the same as you described in that I really just want to know the truth of all these debates. I agree in some of what camp A says and some of B,C,D ect. but then after listening through one of their speech I ponder it and it brings up certain questions and then the avoided answers.

When I was young I went to a Church of Christ(amil.) until around 18(cowboy days) or so and then after a whole lot of unanswered questions looked for other ideas. This has evolved over the years in that by the 1950's the Churches seemed to become rather bazaar because of events in that modern day history.

One I remember in the 50's was Krishna Venta/Francis Pencovic from California which Maddox/Manson was a member of. In the 1960's the Jesus movement sprang up but was called by many different names(my late 30's). There were a lot of(maybe 100's) of groups that to you in history are all referred to as hippie communes/Jesus freaks ect. and cults.

Not every one of them were that way but in the news/history have been lumped summed together. By the 1970's this was all done away with in that most had been drafted(Vietnam) and the farmers were convinced to mortgage their farms(most communes were on farms). Anyway just as well as today many look at the news and think that we just new the half is also true of the 50's,60's ect in my mind.

lol, There is a whole lot of questions about these positions/camps that led me to be "outside the camps" and I suppose questions ask will eventually cause all of us to come to see it,the Lord willing.

OneFaith · Sep 30, 2018

Tina2018 said:

You mean the abomination that causes desolation? Betraying Christ or God. The ultimate desolation will be complete separation from God (hell). In Matthew it speaks of Judah being attacked by Gentiles for killing God's Son. But then it intertwines with the last day and judgement of all people.

Ahwatukee · Sep 30, 2018

Alertandawake said:

Hello Alertandawake,

I very much agree with your assessment. When the verse says, "He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak," my thinking is that because John hears the image speak, is the reason that he attributes it to being alive. However and as you mentioned, I believe that the image may possibly be a computer with the outer covering being in the exact likeness of the beast. It is possible that this computer has voice protocol. And since John didn't know anything about technology, when heard it speak he attributed it speaking to being alive. I have always wondered what John would think if he heard our cell phones speaking, or GPS' or even my car? Would he attribute them to being alive because he heard them speak?

Also, because the image of the beast is closely related to the mark in context, I wonder if his image with its computer inside, would not be used for all of the crediting and debiting transactions (buying and selling) performed by those having the mark?

So, I believe that you are on the right track here regarding the image being AI, for this what I have always believed as well.

trofimus · Oct 1, 2018

Hevosmies said:

I stoppped being charismatic by just growing up. It was a process when I reached 20 years or so. I simply began to dislike all the hypnosis, emotionalism, false prophecies, false promises, learning the tongues and all the preachings concentrated on just about these things.

I stopped being dispensationalist when I began to read more theological views. Dispensationalism and israel-centrism is not able to stand in the light of historical Christianity and is complicated more than a Christian needs. I also disliked all the preachings, magazines and videos about what is happening in Israel today instead of about Christ.

Because I got so many useless prophecies from my childhood to my adult age, I feel good without them, so I have a different position, there

I do not see or feel any deficiency in my life regarding watching prophecies and connecting them to today's politics.

trofimus · Oct 1, 2018

If we translate it as "abomination that causes desolation", then I think that the most simple explanation is that the abomination is what Jews did to Christ and to Christians and therefore their temple, city and nation was desolated.

Can you imagine worse abomination than the unbelief in the Son of God and murdering him?

"And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint [the city] to desolations."
Daniel 9:26

It seems clearly as a punishment for the murdering of the anointed one.

Also in the 1st century AD.

ComeLordJesus · Oct 1, 2018

OneFaith said:

It doesn't intertwine with the last day and judgement of all people, it deals with Israel because Daniel is speaking about his people Israel in v.20.

Miri · Oct 1, 2018

I’ve never considered it until reading this thread,
but I think it relates to some foul deliberate Work of Satan.
So vile and destructive, that we’ve seen nothing like it yet,
despite all the atrocities which have happened so far.

This thread also reminded me of a dream I had in 2015.

In the dream I was upstairs at home in the back bedroom.
I suddenly heard this unbelievable terrible noise. It sounded
like a pack of dogs screaming, snarling, fighting, yelping in pain.
It had a sense of utter terror with this sound.

I looked out of the windows but could not see anything or where
it was coming from.

So I went down the stairs, as I got to the bottom of the stairs I
was no longer at home, I was in the foyer of a large building with
glass doors and a corridor. Across the road through the doors I
saw this awful sight. It was a man with a horrible twisted
snarling face so frightening and I got a sense of utter evil.

This awful dog fighting screaming sound was around and
accompanying him wherever he went but I didn’t see any dogs.

There was a sense of utter vileness, dread, fear, every negative
Emotion I can describe. He was carrying a sharp shooter
powerful sniper weapon and seemed to be moving in a stalking
manner. In the dream I felt this weapon was like flaming arrows
waiting to cause destruction.

He started to cross over the road towards the building I was in.
Then in the dream I knew my elderly aunt was in the building and I
had to protect her. So I ran to my right along a corridor to find
her and shut a door to her room locking it behind me.

Then I woke up with this awful sense of doom and dread.

A short while later my aunt fell and dislocated her shoulder.
she could not manage at home due to other mobility issues with
one arm out of action.

So she went into a rehab place for 6 weeks. The front entrance was
exactly like my dream and while she was there she got a severe UTI
which made her hallucinate. She kept thinking she could hear
a pack of dogs fighting outside her room window!

I was gob smacked, that place was awful I ended up typing up
a 6 page letter of complaint and visiting her every day to make
sure she was taken care of.

Sorry I know I’m digressing, but the vile horrific man in my dream
was like nothing ever experienced before. I believe it was Satan
like a roaring lion going around to see who he could destroy. I
was a shield from him for my elderly aunt. Both in the dream
and in reality.

This abomination of desolation when it comes, is going to be
like Satan, horrific, vile, terrible, destructive, targeted.
Like nothing seen before.

Ahwatukee · Oct 1, 2018

trofimus said:

If we translate it as "abomination that causes desolation", then I think that the most simple explanation is that the abomination is what Jews did to Christ and to Christians and therefore their temple, city and nation was desolated.[/quote

Hello Trofimus,

We can't just apply our own meaning to prophecy. When you cross-reference and compare scriptures, it becomes obvious that the abomination is an idolatrous object, which Jesus said will be set up in the holy place. The result of this object being set up, causes the desolation of Jerusalem/Judea, which is synonymous with the woman/Israel fleeing out into the desert where God will care for her during that last 3 1/2 years, as revealed in Matt.24:15-22, Rev.12:6, 14.

That said, I strongly believe that the abomination is synonymous with the image of the beast which the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make in honor of the first beast - Rev.13:14-15

It is very important for us to pay attention to what is going on with Israel and that because that last seven years will be in fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were prophesied for Israel and Jerusalem. We also have the following prophecy and fulfillment:

"This is what the Lord GOD says: ‘On the day I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be resettled and the ruins to be rebuilt. The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through. Then they will say, “This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden. The cities that were once ruined, desolate, and destroyed are now fortified and inhabited.”

Then the nations around you that remain will know that I, the LORD, have rebuilt what was destroyed, and I have replanted what was desolate. I, the LORD, have spoken, and I will do it.’

For hundreds of years, the people of Israel remained scattered where the Lord had dispersed them and the land of Israel was desolate and barren. Now the people of Israel have returned and continue to return and has become like a flourishing Eden. Israel has indeed become a nation and just finished celebrating her seventieth anniversary.

Therefore, we should be keeping tabs on Israel, because before she begins the fulfillment of that last seven years, the church must first be gathered.

Another sign that I have been following for 35 plus years, is the system being set up in preparation for the mark of the beast. It started out with the first ATM's, followed by the Universal produce Code (UPC), followed by the Point of Sale system (POS) which made it possible for electronic crediting and debiting (buying and selling). And now since 2015, companies in Sweden began to offer their employees RFID chip implants under the skin of the hand, which allowed them access to the building, office equipment and making purchases at the local café. Now that technology has spread to the US, where, last I heard, one company in Wisconsin was offering the same chips to their employees. Sometime in the near future, instead of people swiping their cards or using their cell phone apps., they will paying with a wave of their hand.

All of these things and more, are red flags or should be, demonstrating that the time is drawing near for the Lord's appearing and the fulfillment of our redemption, going from mortal to immortal, from sinful nature to a glorified body. This is the most exciting time in history for those in Christ, because we are that generation. And I'm not just this because I am hopeful, but because we can see the stage being set for events that are to take place after the church is gone, which means that we are very close to going home.

trofimus · Oct 1, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

I am not sure why simple and christological reading of the text is "applying own meaning to the prophecy" and complicated israel-centred view, unknown to the New Testament, is "the correct meaning".

Ahwatukee said:

I think that its not important at all. When I read the New Testament writings to churches, I do not see a pattern similar to today's dispensationalists' lifestyle.

Also, I do not see it in early church writings after apostles. I do not see it even in medieval ages. I do not see it during reformation. I do not see it in post-reformation era. I see this only in the last century. Therefore it can not be "very important" for a church to pay attention to it, IMHO.

Alertandawake · Oct 1, 2018

Speaking from a technological point of view and comparing that with scripture, in my opinion, based on all the evidence we are seeing, we have to consider the reality that we could well be witnesses to the mark of the beast coming into force, along with the image of the beast. When you live in a time period where even the current technology can match the details given in prophecy, then one has to really start taking matters seriously.

The advancements in robotics is incredible, seeing robot replicas of their creators is quite incredible, the level of detail.

luigi · Oct 1, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

Hello Nehemiah 6,
What is the holy place? Is a stone building a holy place? And is a stone building which denies Christ a holy place?
According to numerous scriptures , the Lord does not dwell in man made structures (Acts 17:24), but instead dwells in his temple which consists of they who believe in Him (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:21).
As such when the Antichrist sits in the temple of God, he is sitting in the hearts of the faithful where he should not be sitting.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

The Abomination of Desolation

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