The Ascension of Jesus

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RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#21
Sep 20, 2012
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#21
miknik5 said:
HIM

Not it

and every knee shall *(indeed and involuntarily) bow


*my emphasis
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Him refers to, well, Him, it refers to the event.

That was your take-away, to find a perceived fault instead of answering the question?

'Tis why we are where we are these days
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#22
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#22
graceNpeace said:
Heaven is not part of the universe.
The "direction" that Jesus went is irrelevant.
I have no doubt that Jesus did ascend as described by the various Gospel writers but it is completely wrong to say that heaven is in "that" direction along the lines of a street sign.
All that Jesus did was transition out of the universe - the direction that He took cannot be described within the limitations of the four dimensions in which we exist (three dimensions for space and one for time).
My suggestion to you is not to try and draw "geographical" conclusions from the ascension accounts.
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Yeah, this :)

And that's how He'll return.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#23
#23
trofimus said:
Twice? I have never heard this.... is it your private knowledge or does some church teach it?

So, the "primitive" visualisation of being taken "up" is just for us, because we should await that He will again come "from above"? Even though He probably disappeared right behind the clouds, not travelling any further in the "space". Or did He?
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If John is "private knowledge" or "some church," than yeah, that! John 20:17. Jesus said it. The reason Mary Magdalene couldn't touch him yet. And the reason Thomas could later.

And no idea where he went after "up." I don't think "up" has changed since primitives used that word.

But, I am getting a kick out of calling a large nation enslaved by an empire "primitives." I always picture Adam and Eve to Noah as the "primitives." This is two thousand years, (at least), since Noah. Exactly how long were men "primitive" before we became sophisticated or not-primitive? When did we make that leap?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#24
#24
miknik5 said:
HIM

Not it

and every knee shall *(indeed and involuntarily) bow


*my emphasis
Click to expand...
Grammatically speaking, Ricky said "Jesus' return." In that phrase "return" is the object/noun, not Jesus. So, grammatically, "it" works. Everyone will see it/the return.

(I can't help it. Hidden deep inside me is a failed high school English teacher. lol)
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#25
Jun 2, 2016
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#25
RickyZ said:
The corollary question is, when Jesus returns, 'every eye shall see' it. How do those on the opposite side of the world see it?
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The same way

all eyes shall see HIM
Even those who pierced HIM


The question is why you ask
it implies you don't believe
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#26
Jun 2, 2016
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#26
Men of galilee. Why do you stand here looking up into the clouds?
the same Jesus who you see ascending in the clouds will come in the same manner


abd just as lightning flashes in the east and is seen in the west so shall the sign of the son of man be

All eyes shall see HIM

Even those who pierced HIM


I don't question it


why do you?
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#27
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#27
Depleted said:
Grammatically speaking, Ricky said "Jesus' return." In that phrase "return" is the object/noun, not Jesus. So, grammatically, "it" works. Everyone will see it/the return.

(I can't help it. Hidden deep inside me is a failed high school English teacher. lol)
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I'm sorry

that might be the problem since there are those who are longing for HIS coming and have their eyes more on the OBJECT (of their affection)

which indeed is HIM

as well, revelation 1:7 is fine just the way it is
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#28
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#28
Shall I copy and paste every version of Revelation 1:7 for your review?
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#29
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#29
All eyes shall see HIM
Even those who pierced "it"?

(no that doesn't work)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#30
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#30
trofimus said:
What is the reason for this? We know that heaven is not "up".
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Ummmm couple of points to ponder........

a. There is nothing behind the North Star
b. God is in the NORTH parts
c. The heaven is his throne and the earth his FOOTSTOOL which places God ABOVE the earth

see....Ezekiel 38:15, Isaiah 14:13, Psalm 48:2, Ezekiel 1:4 etc...

I view it this way and wish I could draw on this page.....Imagine a massive, ever expanding Eternal Kingdom of God as a 3 dimensional box expanding on all sides....in the midst of this box is creation with God looking down upon creation........
 
P

popeye

Guest
#31
#31
RickyZ said:
The corollary question is, when Jesus returns, 'every eye shall see' it. How do those on the opposite side of the world see it?
Click to expand...
"two shall be working at a mill,one taken,one left,2shall be in a bed,one taken,one left"

Iow,it is both day and night when he comes
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#32
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#32
miknik5 said:
The same way

all eyes shall see HIM
Even those who pierced HIM


The question is why you ask
it implies you don't believe
Click to expand...
Oh I believe, like gracenpeace said. I was just adding fodder for the discussion.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#33
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#33
popeye said:
"two shall be working at a mill,one taken,one left,2shall be in a bed,one taken,one left"

Iow,it is both day and night when he comes
Click to expand...
Yes it is; even tho I believe the verse you quoted refers to the taking of the truly wicked.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#34
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#34
miknik5 said:
I'm sorry

that might be the problem since there are those who are longing for HIS coming and have their eyes more on the OBJECT (of their affection)

which indeed is HIM

as well, revelation 1:7 is fine just the way it is
Click to expand...
The real question is, why do you strain against the gnats? As in, why do you look for a point of conflict? Don't we have enough infighting already? This 'gotta argue at all costs' is exactly what is wrong here.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#35
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#35
graceNpeace said:
Question 1:
There is NOTHING in Luke chapter 24 to suggest that Jesus' ascension was on the same day as His resurrection. And, as someone has already pointed out, the Book of Acts is just the second volume of what Luke wrote to Theophilus.
He is hardly likely to contradict himself is he?
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There is. It is a known problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus

Also thats why some Christians propose two ascensions.

graceNpeace said:
Question 2:
To me this is a non-question that just highlights a misunderstanding.
Heaven is not part of the universe.
The "direction" that Jesus went is irrelevant.
I have no doubt that Jesus did ascend as described by the various Gospel writers but it is completely wrong to say that heaven is in "that" direction along the lines of a street sign.
All that Jesus did was transition out of the universe - the direction that He took cannot be described within the limitations of the four dimensions in which we exist (three dimensions for space and one for time).
My suggestion to you is not to try and draw "geographical" conclusions from the ascension accounts.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Thats why my question: What was His physical ascension up for, when heaven is not anywhere "up" from us.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#36
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#36
trofimus said:
Exactly. Thats why my question: What was His physical ascension up for, when heaven is not anywhere "up" from us.
Click to expand...
It could be that was the only way they could describe what they saw, even tho technically 'up' may or may not have been exactly correct. I mean, if you saw someone transmogrified into the eternal realm, how would you describe that in human terms?
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#37
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#37
RickyZ said:
The real question is, why do you strain against the gnats? As in, why do you look for a point of conflict? Don't we have enough infighting already? This 'gotta argue at all costs' is exactly what is wrong here.
Click to expand...
Because we're not supposed to change the WORD of GOD and cause confusion

ypu may be inside but there are many many who are still outside

Are we witnessing to one another?

Or those outside?

and shouldn't we provide the written word just as the written word is given us?

changing it is what causes confusion
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#38
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#38
trofimus said:
I have two questions or discussion topics regarding it:

1. When did it happen? According to the Gospel of Luke, chapter 24 it happened on the resurrection day. According to the Acts 1 it happened 40 days later.
(I will not post specific verses, because the logic goes through lot of them)

2. According to the Scriptures, He was taken up to the sky/clouds. What is the reason for this? We know that there is no "heaven" above our clouds, the Universe is almost unending to all sides from our planet. And being in Australia, He would go to a different direction. So what actually happened? And why in this way?
Click to expand...
Where does Luke say ascended on resurrection day?
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#39
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
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#39
Sometimes I think we forget that we are more in service to those who are outside THE DOOR
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#40
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#40
miknik5 said:
Because we're not supposed to change the WORD of GOD and cause confusion

ypu may be inside but there are many many who are still outside

Are we witnessing to one another?

Or those outside?

and shouldn't we provide the written word just as the written word is given us?

changing it is what causes confusion
Click to expand...
That would be true if I was quoting scripture.

I wasn't.

People these days are just primed to argue, even when no argument is needed.

Heck, these days, people don't even know when they are being agreed with. They'd rather bicker.
 
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