The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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brightfame52

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the one "exalting man and his behaviour" is the one who does not believe Scripture when Scripture reveals that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
You still exalting mans behaviour over the grace of God.
 
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They go hand and hand. Repentance is unto the acknowledging of the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Scripture reveals that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.



when are you going to repent and acknowledge the truth in Scripture concerning this issue as instructed in 2 Tim 2:25?
 

brightfame52

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Isa 42:6-7 Christ's Covenant Death !

Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.


Christ's Covenantal Death, for all the Covenant People, which are all those the Father gave Him Per Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And to these it says "and give thee for a covenant of the people,"

These are also the Children of Promise Rom 9:8, now to them, He delivers them all from the prison of unbelief, for that is the promise here indicated in this scripture, because unbelief is a prison, and all for whom Christ died must be brought out of that Prison.

Unbelief is a Prison we know from Paul's statement regarding God's Judgment against the Elect for sin, He concluded them all in Unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in or into unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The key here is the meaning of the word concluded ! It is the greek word sygkleiō and means:


to shut up together, enclose

a) of a shoal of fishes in a net

2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely

Notice, to shut up on all sides or to enclose !

It means:

to shut or hem in; close in on all sides

Of course the idea conveyed is to confine or to imprison, and so it is , all the elect are by nature imprisoned, confined, enclosed in unbelief.

God is the primary and first cause of this as stated in Rom 11:32, but God also employs satan as a secondary cause, the god and prince of this world, and so it is written of him 2 Cor 4:3-4a

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

All by nature are shut into unbelief by satan and the blindness of the mind he causes by the permission or will of God See Eph 4:18 also !

However, everyone Christ died for, His Covenental and Redemptive Death, by His Blood, has opened blind eyes and brought out the prisoners from the prison of unbelief !

The word prison in Isa 42:7 is the hebrew word macger and means:

a shutting up, locksmith, smith, dungeon, enclosure, builder of bulwarks

Christ's Redeeming Covenental Death for His People brings all for whom He died out of the prison, the enclosure of unbelief which they are in by nature.

So if any that Christ died for remain in unbelief, and never come to saving Faith in Christ, that would mean that satan, the god of this world, was victorious over Christ and His Blood, and God's justice being satisfied for that one did not release them from the prison of unbelief ! That means that satan was stronger than Christ; And many right today, who call themselves Gospel Preachers, they would tell us that a great many for whom Christ died, will die or remain in unbelief.198

It should go without saying, that all such preachers and professing christians are liars and are ignorant to the Accomplishments of Christ's Covenental Death !

Zech 9:11

As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
 

brightfame52

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Scripture reveals that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.



when are you going to repent and acknowledge the truth in Scripture concerning this issue as instructed in 2 Tim 2:25?
Post 656, You understand it ?
 
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Of course the idea conveyed is to confine or to imprison, and so it is , all the elect are by nature imprisoned, confined, enclosed in unbelief.
All mankind is referred to in Rom 11:32 and God has mercy upon all ... as shown in 1 John 2:2 where we are told the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins: and not for oursonly, but also for the sins of the whole world.




brightfame52 said:
God is the primary and first cause of this as stated in Rom 11:32
nope. According to Rom 5:12 it was Adam ... as by one man sin entered into the world


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

brightfame52

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Give Repentance and Forgiveness of sins !

Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

What does it mean to Give Repentance and Forgiveness of Sins here ? It means for Christ gives His People forgiveness or remission of sins, that is an Spiritual Application of it to the conscious, by giving s Spiritual Knowledge of it Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Now the Word give here in both is the greek word didōmi and means:


to give

2) to give something to someone

a) of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage

1) to bestow a gift

b) to grant, give to one asking, let have

c) to supply, furnish, necessary things

d) to give over, deliver

1) to reach out, extend, present

2) of a writing

3) to give over to one's care, intrust, commit

a) something to be administered

To administer something or to apply something ! So Christ gives by application or by applying Salvation and the Knowledge of Remission of sins.

Until it is made known to them so that so that they receive it by Faith, they are ignorant of it, or it is a Mystery ! However because of Covenant Engagement of Christ on their behalf, they always had an interest in Christ's Blood which is for their Remission of Sins Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness or remission of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

So receiving remission of sins in the time state by God given Faith is but receiving God's Act of Remission from Eternity !
 

brightfame52

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Heb 10:14 Perfected !

What the death of Christ accomplished of its own merit for all those that He offered Himself in behalf of Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Knowing this Truth is very important especially in light of the modern day of blasphemy of many false teachers who tell us #1 That Christ's death or offering in and of itself saves no one, which is blasphemy 1 Pet 2:24 and those who say Christ's death in and of itself, without the work of the Spirit is worthless, another blasphemy !

We must however embrace what the scripture says about what Christ's death or offering did accomplish for those Christ died for in and of itself: And here in this context of Heb 10, we are told that it [His Death or offering] perfected forever those whom are sanctified, or as the greek may indicate, those who are in a state of sanctification !

Anyone Christ died for, by virtue of His Death, even though sinners by nature as others, are nevertheless born in this world already sanctified or set apart for the holy purposes of God, this is also True because of what it states a few verses ahead in the context in Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Here we are enlighten that it was also the death or offering of Christ that did sanctify those He died for once and for all, that was legal sanctification, which will in God's Time manifest itself into subjective sanctification, because all whom are legally sanctified by the blood of Christ or His Death, must also be given life by the Spirit, which is also Sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

All of which is the fruit of Christ's death that perfected all for whom He died, so the follow up work of the Spirit is an evidence of the Great Worth and accomplishment of Christ's Death!

Also in the legal aspect alone of this perfection of Heb 10:14 is meant, that all for whom Christ died are made complete in Him, not in themselves Col 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Also it meant that not one sin of theirs has God not been propitiated for forever ! They are freed from sin forever by Christ's offering ! Rom 6:7

For he that is dead [died in Union with Christ] is freed from sin. Note: Christ could not have died for our sins if we were not in Union legally with Him !


This is a legal term, the word freed here is the greek word dikaioō:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

This offering was not for all in the World without exception, but is qualified to only those who are set apart or sanctified legally and then experimentally, and this perfect is True of all of God's Elect before its fruition or realization by the one perfected by Christ death, meaning, if Christ was to tarry another 25 years, and Elect are born physically into this world within those years as sinners and enemies by nature, they have been still legally perfected forever by Christ's death or Offering, and they are assured of being sanctified experimentally by the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13, solely because of Christ's Death alone perfecting them before God's law and Justice !
 
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We must however embrace what the scripture says about what Christ's death or offering did accomplish for those Christ died for in and of itself
yes ... you must "embrace what the Scripture says" ...

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1 Timothy 2:4 Who
[God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die




Anyone Christ died for, by virtue of His Death, even though sinners by nature as others, are nevertheless born in this world already sanctified or set apart for the holy purposes of God
:rolleyes:

Until a person is born again, he/she lives his/her life according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience (Eph 2:2).

Until a person is born again, he/she is not "sanctified or set apart for the holy purposes of God".




This offering was not for all in the World without exception
again ... you must "embrace what the Scripture says" ...

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1 Timothy 2:4 Who
[God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die



 

brightfame52

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yes ... you must "embrace what the Scripture says" ...

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die





:rolleyes:

Until a person is born again, he/she lives his/her life according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience (Eph 2:2).

Until a person is born again, he/she is not "sanctified or set apart for the holy purposes of God".





again ... you must "embrace what the Scripture says" ...

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die
Christs death perfected them He died for, but you dont believe that do you ?
 
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Christs death perfected them He died for, but you dont believe that do you ?
I do not believe your dogma.

Your dogma denies the truth set forth concerning those for whom the Lord Jesus Christ was given:

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Your dogma denies the truth set forth concerning God's desire concerning all mankind:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Your dogma denies the truth set forth concerning God's heart toward the wicked:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die



What I believe concerning those who are perfected forever?

Hebrews 10:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us ...

vs 12 - the Lord Jesus Christ offered one sacrifice for sins. The sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient to cover all sin (the sins of the whole world - 1 John 2:2).

vs 14 - the Lord Jesus Christ has perfected forever those who are sanctified (set apart).

vs 15 - the Holy Spirit within is the witness concerning those who are sanctified.


To whom is the Holy Spirit given?

John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive ...


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

brightfame52

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It effects the New Birth or being Born Again !

Jesus said to Nicodemus Jn 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

And this is True of everyone that Christ was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This because, Christ's Death [being made a sin offering] that makes all for whom He died Righteous before God, it demands that they be made Righteous experientially with a communicated principle of Holiness in them, of which without, no man shall see the Lord Heb 12:14

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

This Holiness is the imparted or communicated Righteousness of Christ received at New Birth !

Now that Christ's Death for those He died for does effect for them the New Birth, or their Conversion is taught in many scriptures, and particularly here 2 Cor 5:21,19

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The fact that He was made sin for them, that is a sin offering, by God charging all their sins, trespasses upon Him, for remember God did not impute their trespasses or sins upon them Vs 19 and the stated outcome of this was for them [whose sins were imputed or charged to Christ] might be made the Righteousness of God in Him !

Now the word made is interesting, it is the greek word ginomai and its the aorist subjunctive [denoting purpose because of the conjunction hina] which means to come into existence, am born,it denotes a transitioning from one condition to another See [ Jn 5:24] a conversion, So this is speaking of the imparted Righteousness of Christ they receive in their New Birth, for it also makes them a New Man Created as in Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, thats the Righteousness spoken of to be made to them in 2 Cor 5:21

Thats why the verb ginomai is very relevant with its " come into existence or being meaning", which also the word created denotes !

Also God only makes them experientially Righteous with New Birth whom He made objectively Righteous by Imputation of Christ's Righteousness, which was from Christ's obedience or death Rom 5:19b, this compliments 2 Cor 5:21 !

So if anyone Christ died for does not become experientially Righteous, and receive of the Holiness by which without none shall see the Lord in peace, then His Death was a failure within the Purpose of God !
 

brightfame52

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I do not believe your dogma.

Your dogma denies the truth set forth concerning those for whom the Lord Jesus Christ was given:

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Your dogma denies the truth set forth concerning God's desire concerning all mankind:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Your dogma denies the truth set forth concerning God's heart toward the wicked:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die



What I believe concerning those who are perfected forever?

Hebrews 10:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us ...

vs 12 - the Lord Jesus Christ offered one sacrifice for sins. The sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient to cover all sin (the sins of the whole world - 1 John 2:2).

vs 14 - the Lord Jesus Christ has perfected forever those who are sanctified (set apart).

vs 15 - the Holy Spirit within is the witness concerning those who are sanctified.


To whom is the Holy Spirit given?

John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive ...


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
You dont believe the Truth ! Christs death perfected them He died for !
 
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You dont believe the Truth !
Sure I do because I believe Scripture.




brightfame52 said:
Christs death perfected them He died for !
If your claim is true, there would be no one cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15) because clearly the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



 

brightfame52

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Sure I do because I believe Scripture.





If your claim is true, there would be no one cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15) because clearly the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Did you know that Christs death effects the newbirth or being born again ?
 
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Did you know that Christs death effects the newbirth or being born again ?
Do you believe Scripture?

1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures



 
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2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This because, Christ's Death [being made a sin offering] that makes all for whom He died Righteous before God, it demands that they be made Righteous
"makes all for whom He died Righteous before God, it demands that they be made Righteous"

Really??? Back up a verse in 2 Corinthians 5 and let's see who is the "all for whom He died"

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling
the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.




His Death was a failure within the Purpose of God !
lie from the pit!!!


Your dogma conflicts with Scripture.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

brightfame52

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He purged away our sins and sat down !

Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:202

See Ps 65:3; 79:9

All for whom Christ died, they have no sins for God to charge against them, yes even before they believe, because all their sins were laid to the charge of Christ, and He bore them on His Cross 1 Pet 2:24, and having done so, He purged them away from before God's Law and Justice Heb 1:3.

Now for this to have been the case, they through His Offering, have no sins recorded against them against God's Law charged against them Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

For sin is the transgression of the law, and the strength of sin [its right to be called sin] is the Law 1 Cor 15:56, so hence by the purging of our sins [if He died for us], we have been totally exonerated before God, as if we never sinned, and yes this is the case before we become believers, and is the reason we become believers ! Because the Just shall live by Faith ! And all for whom Christ died are declared Just , for there are sins charged against them before God's Law and Justice, they have been taken out the Way !
 

brightfame52

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Do you believe Scripture?

1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
You are ignoring a vital aspect of the accomplishment of Christs atoning death. that it begats life, new life for them He atoned for.
 

brightfame52

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"makes all for whom He died Righteous before God, it demands that they be made Righteous"

Really??? Back up a verse in 2 Corinthians 5 and let's see who is the "all for whom He died"

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.





lie from the pit!!!


Your dogma conflicts with Scripture.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Thats another aspect of Christs death you ignore, it makes them He died for righteous, by imputation, just as their sins made Him to be sin by imputation 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The great exchange !
 
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All for whom Christ died, they have no sins for God to charge against them, yes even before they believe
nope ... your dogma conflicts with Romans 4:

Romans 4:


20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed,
if we believe
on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead