The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
"important truth" in Post 808

Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;



Col 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins



Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.



Luke 24:47
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.



Gal 6:16
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.



Acts 11:18
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.



Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
So did you understand it ?
 
Mar 23, 2016
6,799
1,635
113
Now if all for whom He died .....
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.





brightfame52 said:
... are not healed, made whole, converted or saved experientially so that they died to sin and begin to live to Righteousness, then His Stripes [Death] was a Utter failure.
lie from the pit.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.






lie from the pit.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Post 820, did you understand it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
Christ's Glory Given !

All for whom Christ died, to the exclusion of not one, have been given by Him Glory, in the form of a Promise Note Jn 17:20-22

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus here also makes it unquestionably clear that His present intercession request did not just pertain to those who were at that specific time hearing Him while in His immediate presence [His Chosen Disciples excluding judas], but for them also who shall believe o Him through their Word or their Testimony; and so He goes on to say of them ALL Vs 22

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

That is, He has given it to His Chosen disciples, judas the son of perdition not included, and secondly, all whom shall believe on Him through their word of Testimony, whether by their literal preaching or by their present epistles and letters. This is the same Glory Paul writes about in this chain of predetermined events Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

By Christ's actual statement that He has given [Perfect Tense] it to them already, though it has not yet come to past in its completion and perfection, they cannot be without it, or He will be found a liar, but the performance of it is sure, based upon the Word of Him that cannot lie. This was Glory contingent upon His Death for them Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

All whom He tasted death for [in behalf of] every man of them, brings them to Glory, which is the fruit of His Sufferings and Death for them !
 
Mar 23, 2016
6,799
1,635
113
All for whom Christ died, to the exclusion of not one, have been given by Him Glory
really?

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


"all for whom Christ died" = the whole world.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!




brightfame52 said:
Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

All whom He tasted death for [in behalf of] every man of them, brings them to Glory, which is the fruit of His Sufferings and Death for them !
"all whom He tasted death for"???


The Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for everyone - vs 9 (i.e. the whole world as shown above - John 1:29, John 3:16-17).

vs 10 - many are brought to glory. The "many" would be those who believe ...


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
really?

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


"all for whom Christ died" = the whole world.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!





"all whom He tasted death for"???

The Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for everyone - vs 9 (i.e. the whole world as shown above - John 1:29, John 3:16-17).

vs 10 - many are brought to glory. The "many" would be those who believe ...


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Post 826 did you read and understand the entirety of it ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
Rom 8:32; Jn 3:16

Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Jn 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


If God gave His Son in Death for Some, then also with Him were given them , all things freely !

Now what are these all things given freely with Him ? Lets read 2 Pet 1:3

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The all things that accompany the giving of Christ to those He was given in behalf of, consiteth in,All things that pertaineth to Life[Spiritual] and Godliness !

The first thing He gives them is Life Spiritually. When Christ was given, to those He was given in behalf of, to them also is freely given Life, Spiritual. Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life[Spiritual] unto the world.

Jn 5:21

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

That word quickeneth is zōopoieō:


to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening[life giving] spirit.

All whom God gave Christ unto in Death, with Him, Gives them Life, to cause to be made alive unto God !

He gave them Justification of Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Next, He gives them Godly Repentance unto Salvation 2 Cor 7:9-10

9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

That word godly is key. Godly Repentance accompanies Salvation, it accompanies Spiritual Life out of the Spirit of God.

Christ gives Repentance as Saviour Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

This confirms that with Him, God gives all things. Repentance to Life Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

He also with Him gives them Faith to believe in Him. Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

There can be no godliness without Faith. For the Just [Justified] shall live by Faith All these are things that accompany Salvation, which is all in the giving of Christ Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

If Faith, Godly Repentance, are not sooner or later manifested in our lives, then there is no evidence or proof that Christ died or was given for us, as in Rom 8:32 and John 3:16, because with Him is also given all things that pertain to Life and Godliness for the Glory of God through Him !
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
No twist, Israel is Gods elect

That is exactly what Peter Proclaimed here Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
The twist here is Israel is God's elect, not even Acts 5:31 says it. "Among all nations" includes of course the Gentiles not only the Jews or Israelites.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
The twist here is Israel is God's elect, not even Acts 5:31 says it. "Among all nations" includes of course the Gentiles not only the Jews or Israelites.
If you dont konw Israel is Gods elect you dont know anything about the bible.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
The atonement took me from perishing to existing with Yahweh-Elohim forever.
From being consumed in fire to dancing before my Father's throne and whatever else He has in store. For eternity!
What an awesome God we have! I can't imagine what He went through that day...being brutalized and humiliated, being nailed to a cross...and then being hung on it! I can't begin to imagine how that must have hurt! Thank You that You did this for us!
Wow!!! Lord, we are so thankful that You are who You are!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
He is the Author of our Salvation/ Obedience !


For all whom He died, Christ is the Author of their Salvation, thats why they are obeying Him Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey[or are obeying] him;

And so He is the Author of their Faith Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

He is the Author of the Obedience of Faith, like with Abraham the Father of the Faithful Heb 11:8

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Christ is the Author of Abraham's obedience of Faith here !232

So Christ, for everyone He died, is the Author, the Causer of their Conversion experience whereby they begin to live by obedient faith, as does all the seed of Abraham Heb 11:8 all the True Heirs are called the same way Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Understand, that Both in Heb 11:8 and Heb 9:15 its a Divine Call unto the same Eternal Inheritance. The Eternal Inheritance in Heb 9:15 is the equivalent to the Everlasting Canaan Land that was Promised Abraham and his seed here Gen 17:5-8

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The promise Eternal Inheritance was not given to Abraham and his physical seed ethnic isreal, but to Abraham as an Spiritual man of Faith and his Spiritual seed of Faith, comprised of men and women of all Nations Vs 5. Abraham's physical seed was only a type and shadow, His True descendants related to him in regards to this promise is through His spiritual seed Christ and all who belong to Him Gal 3:16,29

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And all of this seed of promise, have Christ as the Author of their Salvation and Obedience of Faith !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
oblio says

The atonement took me from perishing to existing with Yahweh-Elohim forever.
So does the atonement do that for everyone or some people and not others ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,859
516
113
Redeemed unto Service !

Not only did Christ's Blood alone redeem us from all Iniquity if He died for us Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

But its also responsible for providing us a life of Good Works and or Spiritual Service unto God, Titus 2:14; Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Being made a Kingdom of Priests [Spiritual Service] denotes God Glorifying Works of Service, again Spiritual Services.

1 Pet 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
 
Mar 23, 2016
6,799
1,635
113
Him Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey[or are obeying] him;
the word "author" is translated from the Greek word arxēgós

arxēgós (from 746 /arxḗ, "the first" and 71 /ágō, "to lead") – properly, the first in a long procession; a file-leader who pioneers the way for many others to follow. 747 (arxēgós) does not strictly mean "author," but rather "a person who is originator or founder and continues as the leader – i.e. 'pioneer leader, founding leader' "



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!