The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

[eternally-gratefull]

Here we go perseverance of the saints, does it say what @throughfaith and @EleventhHour claims it does, that a person uses works to prove his election is true,?

taken from a quote from @Deuteronomy in another thread by permission

here's a concise statement concerning perseverance from The Westminster Confession of Faith. This is what Calvinism teaches, in part. Saints, according to Calvinism, persevere in the faith (albeit imperfectly) because of God alone, not because of anything they choose to do apart from Him, or because of anything inherent (righteousness, strength, etc.) in themselves.

Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints​

Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.​

​

Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.​

​

Section III.–Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.​

​

/////////////////////////////////////////​

Further,​

​

1. The privilege of final perseverance is peculiar to true believers. ​

​

2. The perseverance of the saints is not owing to their inherent strength, or to any measure of grace they have already received, but solely to divine grace. We readily acknowledge, that in themselves they are utterly weak, and wholly insufficient to withstand the numerous and formidable enemy that are combined against them; such as Satan, the world, and the corruptions of their own hearts. If left to contend with their spiritual adversaries in their own strength, they would be easily overcome. ​

​

3. The perseverance of the saints does not secure them from partial falls, but from total and final apostasy. Our Confession admits, that believers may, "through the temptations of Satan, and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein. ​

​

4. The perseverance of the saints secures the preservation of the principle of grace in their souls, though it may greatly decay as to its exercise. ​

​

5. The perseverance of the saints is secured by the immutability of the decree of election. ​

​

6. It is secured by the merit of Christ's sufferings and death, Christ "purchased the Church with his own blood." The "iniquities" of all his people "were laid upon him," and, as their Surety, "he bore their sins in his own body on the tree." He sustained the full infliction of the curse which they deserved, and "obtained for them eternal redemption." ​

​

7. It is secured by the perpetuity and prevalence of Christ's intercession. As Christ purchased his people by the merit of his own blood, so "he ever liveth to make intercession" for them. ​

​

8. It is secured by the constant inhabitation of the Spirit. ​

​

9. It is secured by the unchangeable nature of the covenant of grace. This covenant, being founded in the grace of God, and not in our obedience, is "ordered in all things, and sure." The tenor of this covenant is clearly expressed: "I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." Jer. xxxii. 40.​

​

~Shaw, Robert, Exposition on The Westminster Confession of Faith, Of the Perseverance of the Saints, excerpt​

​

 

[Grandpa]

I am not sure what you mean?

Election very often in scripture is a call to service.

You said that a Calvinists confirmation of election is that they were regenerated before they believed.

I pointed out that what you said was only a theological theory. And I wondered how a theory could be confirmation of election?

 

[Grandpa]

Here we go perseverance of the saints, does it say what @throughfaith and @EleventhHour claims it does, that a person uses works to prove his election is true,?

taken from a quote from @Deuteronomy in another thread by permission

here's a concise statement concerning perseverance from The Westminster Confession of Faith. This is what Calvinism teaches, in part. Saints, according to Calvinism, persevere in the faith (albeit imperfectly) because of God alone, not because of anything they choose to do apart from Him, or because of anything inherent (righteousness, strength, etc.) in themselves.

Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints​

Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.​

​

Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.​

​

Section III.–Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.​

​

/////////////////////////////////////////​

Further,​

​

1. The privilege of final perseverance is peculiar to true believers. ​

​

2. The perseverance of the saints is not owing to their inherent strength, or to any measure of grace they have already received, but solely to divine grace. We readily acknowledge, that in themselves they are utterly weak, and wholly insufficient to withstand the numerous and formidable enemy that are combined against them; such as Satan, the world, and the corruptions of their own hearts. If left to contend with their spiritual adversaries in their own strength, they would be easily overcome. ​

​

3. The perseverance of the saints does not secure them from partial falls, but from total and final apostasy. Our Confession admits, that believers may, "through the temptations of Satan, and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein. ​

​

4. The perseverance of the saints secures the preservation of the principle of grace in their souls, though it may greatly decay as to its exercise. ​

​

5. The perseverance of the saints is secured by the immutability of the decree of election. ​

​

6. It is secured by the merit of Christ's sufferings and death, Christ "purchased the Church with his own blood." The "iniquities" of all his people "were laid upon him," and, as their Surety, "he bore their sins in his own body on the tree." He sustained the full infliction of the curse which they deserved, and "obtained for them eternal redemption." ​

​

7. It is secured by the perpetuity and prevalence of Christ's intercession. As Christ purchased his people by the merit of his own blood, so "he ever liveth to make intercession" for them. ​

​

8. It is secured by the constant inhabitation of the Spirit. ​

​

9. It is secured by the unchangeable nature of the covenant of grace. This covenant, being founded in the grace of God, and not in our obedience, is "ordered in all things, and sure." The tenor of this covenant is clearly expressed: "I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." Jer. xxxii. 40.​

​

~Shaw, Robert, Exposition on The Westminster Confession of Faith, Of the Perseverance of the Saints, excerpt​

​

Isn't that what I said?

Deuteronomy needs to post more. I really like his stuff.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You said that a Calvinists confirmation of election is that they were regenerated before they believed.

I pointed out that what you said was only a theological theory. And I wondered how a theory could be confirmation of election?

Don’t forget, you think your works confirm your election also according to them.

 

[EleventhHour]

Here we go perseverance of the saints, does it say what @throughfaith and @EleventhHour claims it does, that a person uses works to prove his election is true,?

taken from a quote from @Deuteronomy in another thread by permission

here's a concise statement concerning perseverance from The Westminster Confession of Faith. This is what Calvinism teaches, in part. Saints, according to Calvinism, persevere in the faith (albeit imperfectly) because of God alone, not because of anything they choose to do apart from Him, or because of anything inherent (righteousness, strength, etc.) in themselves.

Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints​

Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.​

​

Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.​

​

Section III.–Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.​

​

/////////////////////////////////////////​

Further,​

​

1. The privilege of final perseverance is peculiar to true believers. ​

​

2. The perseverance of the saints is not owing to their inherent strength, or to any measure of grace they have already received, but solely to divine grace. We readily acknowledge, that in themselves they are utterly weak, and wholly insufficient to withstand the numerous and formidable enemy that are combined against them; such as Satan, the world, and the corruptions of their own hearts. If left to contend with their spiritual adversaries in their own strength, they would be easily overcome. ​

​

3. The perseverance of the saints does not secure them from partial falls, but from total and final apostasy. Our Confession admits, that believers may, "through the temptations of Satan, and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein. ​

​

4. The perseverance of the saints secures the preservation of the principle of grace in their souls, though it may greatly decay as to its exercise. ​

​

5. The perseverance of the saints is secured by the immutability of the decree of election. ​

​

6. It is secured by the merit of Christ's sufferings and death, Christ "purchased the Church with his own blood." The "iniquities" of all his people "were laid upon him," and, as their Surety, "he bore their sins in his own body on the tree." He sustained the full infliction of the curse which they deserved, and "obtained for them eternal redemption." ​

​

7. It is secured by the perpetuity and prevalence of Christ's intercession. As Christ purchased his people by the merit of his own blood, so "he ever liveth to make intercession" for them. ​

​

8. It is secured by the constant inhabitation of the Spirit. ​

​

9. It is secured by the unchangeable nature of the covenant of grace. This covenant, being founded in the grace of God, and not in our obedience, is "ordered in all things, and sure." The tenor of this covenant is clearly expressed: "I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." Jer. xxxii. 40.​

​

~Shaw, Robert, Exposition on The Westminster Confession of Faith, Of the Perseverance of the Saints, excerpt​

​

All comes down to the parable of the sower.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isn't that what I said?

Deuteronomy needs to post more. I really like his stuff.

Yeah and now he dismissed me because he said I was not ready to discuss the word because I would not buy into what he was selling

 

[Grandpa]

Don’t forget, you think your works confirm your election also according to them.

I don't get it.

Maybe I'm not a good Calvinist?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't get it.

Maybe I'm not a good Calvinist?

You better endure, Your election is not sure unless you endure., so you better straighten up!

 

[EleventhHour]

You said that a Calvinists confirmation of election is that they were regenerated before they believed.

I pointed out that what you said was only a theological theory. And I wondered how a theory could be confirmation of election?

Isn't that how you know you were saved because you were regenerated?

 

[Grandpa]

Yeah and now he dismissed me because he said I was not ready to discuss the word because I would not buy into what he was selling

You can't HANDLE the Truth.

Do you remember who said that and what movie it was in?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can't HANDLE the Truth.

Do you remember who said that and what movie it was in?

wasn’t it they guy who played in the shinning (jack something?) from “a few good men”

 

[Grandpa]

Isn't that how you know you were saved because you were regenerated?

You left out the part "before I believed". The confirmation of a Calvinists Salvation, according to you, is that they were regenerated before they believed.

This is starting to get tedious.

 

[Grandpa]

wasn’t it they guy who played in the shinning (jack something?) from “a few good men”

Yep, Jack Nickolson. Probably didn't spell his last name right.

Both were good movies. Well, I should say entertaining movies. Maybe not good....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep, Jack Nickolson. Probably didn't spell his last name right.

Both were good movies. Well, I should say entertaining movies. Maybe not good....

Yeah that’s him, yeah I ageee about the movies also

 

[EleventhHour]

You left out the part "before I believed". The confirmation of a Calvinists Salvation, according to you, is that they were regenerated before they believed.

This is starting to get tedious.

Not sure what you are getting as... @preacher4truth stated more than once that regeneration precedes belief.... (Reformed Theology) as have other members who have left/been banned.

Believe as you well I know Calvinism quite well, and of course there are different shades of it and some adhere more strongly than others and some teach it more subtly than others but at the end of the day... it is not biblical.

 

[EleventhHour]

You left out the part "before I believed". The confirmation of a Calvinists Salvation, according to you, is that they were regenerated before they believed.

This is starting to get tedious.

Funny... feeling empowered.
Awesome.
I do not have to feel empowered because I know Calvinism is wrong.
You will not be convinced and I closed my conversation with you on the other thread.

 

[Grandpa]

Not sure what you are getting as... @preacher4truth stated more than once that regeneration precedes belief.... (Reformed Theology) as have other members who have left/been banned.

Believe as you well I know Calvinism quite well, and of course there are different shades of it and some adhere more strongly than others and some teach it more subtly than others but at the end of the day... it is not biblical.

So the reason why regeneration precedes belief being confirmation of a Calvinists election is that its not biblical...

Seems like you're stuck in the mud a little. You'll probably be ok. Maybe you will have an epiphany?

 

[Grandpa]

Funny... feeling empowered.
Awesome.
I do not have to feel empowered because I know Calvinism is wrong.
You will not be convinced and I closed my conversation with you on the other thread.

Ohhhh. It was going so well....

 

[EleventhHour]

So the reason why regeneration precedes belief being confirmation of a Calvinists election is that its not biblical...

Seems like you're stuck in the mud a little. You'll probably be ok. Maybe you will have an epiphany?

You are not getting my point.... not surprised.

 

[Grandpa]

You are not getting my point.... not surprised.

Well, its not for a lack of asking.

Maybe you want it to be a surprise?